We were all set to purchase a Jayco Jay Flight 28BH today until I started reading threads on here and getting nervous about our Suburban's ability to tow it safely.We have a 2008 Suburban with a 6L engine and it has the tow package. Our truck did not come with a owners manual, so I've been trying to figure out all the numbers via the internet. Best I can tell it has a towing capacity of 8100lbs, a GVWR of 7400lbs, and GAWR of 4200. I couldn't find the GCVWR.Since the max loaded weight of the trailer is 7500 we were thinking we were in the clear, but after putting lots of numbers into lots of calculators and getting more confused each time I do it, I'm not so convinced now. Help!

Look on the Drivers side door jam for the numbers your looking for.

jbarkley wrote:Look on the Drivers side door jam for the numbers your looking for.I did, and that's where I found the GVWR and the GAWR, but it does not list the GCVWR anywhere that I can see.

Forget about advertised tow ratings. They are a pipe dream. When they are calculated, there is no room for weight of any aftermarket accessories, passengers, or cargo. That's not how we as consumers, go camping.In order to figure out your real world tow capacity, you need to look at the tire / loading sticker on your drivers door post. It will have a number for max cargo / passenger weight (AKA payload). That is the vehicle's capacity to carry the combined weight of aftermarket accessories, people, cargo, weight distributing hitch, and tongue weight from the trailer. Take that number and subtract the weight of all your passengers, all your cargo, and 100 lbs for a WD hitch. The amount remaining is the vehicle's capacity to carry tongue weight from a trailer. Divide this remaining capacity number by .15. That will tell you the approximate "loaded" trailer weight, that you may be able to tow. Keep in mind, towing at, or close to the max, can be an unpleasant experience.Example:Say the vehicle has 1300 lbs payload, you have 600 lbs of people, 100 lbs of hitch, and 100 lbs of cargo.1300 - 800 = 500 lbs of payload available500 / .15 = 3333 lbs loaded trailer weight (this same vehicle with no passengers, accessories, or cargo, and a 150 lb driver, would have capacity to tow a 7000 lbs trailer)

handye9 wrote:Forget about advertised tow ratings. They are a pipe dream. When they are calculated, there is no room for weight of any aftermarket accessories, passengers, or cargo. That's not how we as consumers, go camping.In order to figure out your real world tow capacity, you need to look at the tire / loading sticker on your drivers door post. It will have a number for max cargo / passenger weight (AKA payload). That is the vehicle's capacity to carry the combined weight of aftermarket accessories, people, cargo, weight distributing hitch, and tongue weight from the trailer. Take that number and subtract the weight of all your passengers, all your cargo, and 100 lbs for a WD hitch. The amount remaining is the vehicle's capacity to carry tongue weight from a trailer. Divide this remaining capacity number by .15. That will tell you the approximate "loaded" trailer weight, that you may be able to tow. Keep in mind, towing at, or close to the max, can be an unpleasant experience.Example:Say the vehicle has 1300 lbs payload, you have 600 lbs of people, 100 lbs of hitch, and 100 lbs of cargo.1300 - 800 = 500 lbs of payload available500 / .15 = 3333 lbs loaded trailer weight (this same vehicle with no passengers, accessories, or cargo, and a 150 lb driver, would have capacity to tow a 7000 lbs trailer)Thank you! That's very helpful! :)The weird thing is that my sticker doesn't show that number, only GVWR 7400llbs GAWR FRT and GAWR RR. I tried looking up the empty weight of my vehicle online and it looks like it's around 5600lbs, that isn't necessarily the true weight with the options in our car, but using that number I get a 1800lb payload.So assuming we have 1,000lbs of payload available I'd be looking at around 6,600lbs loaded trailer weight. Is that right?

GCWR is fairly new rating and not listed widely, yet. Also note that many DO NOTconsider GCWR matters, so not many will have that info here on theseforumsGotta grab these charts from the OEM the year they publish them...as they removethem the next model/gen...as it is a source of liability for them it somethinggoes south (all OEMs has something go south sooner or later). This is the brochurespec you need to get a hold ofGCWR GCWRchartGenerally, it is the curb weight + tow option + one 150lb driver + hitch + MTWRFactored by components on the TV. Like the diff ratio, etc...also note that aftermarketstuff like over sized tires, lift kit, etc, etcHere is an old thread on this using my Suburban as an example Help Understanding How Factories Detemine Truck WeightsBenK wrote:This comes up all the time...and most who have not gone through thisbefore...go away to not talk about this again...deny and argue...orsome actually understand how this works-especially those who wentout and actually weighed their TVPure marketing with some reality sprinkled in...meaning how else canthe OEMs do this and still be competitive with the public who believesthe marketing data as gospel...AKA "King of the Hill" or "mine isbigger than yours"Reality, as how else can they provide a manageable level of rows/columns/etcMeaning if they listed every option on a row with a column for thevarious ratings. Like a row for 4x4 and columns for MTWR, Payload, GCWR, etcThen a row for 4x4 & AC and columns for MTWR, Payload, GCWR, etcThen a row for 4x4 & AC & power seats/windows/locks and columns for MTWR, Payload, GCWR, etcand so on, and so on, and so on...betcha that would be dozens of sheetsand even more confusing than what we have now...where they define orput into context with the fine print This is my Suburban, as I've actually weighed it at a county weightsand measure certified (their sticker for that year) to be accurateenough for commerce (sell by weight and charge money for that weight)That 5,250 Lb CURB is on the California DMV data base and is providedby GM, the OEM of my GMC Suburban. Against the VIN number. These Calif SMOG test reports are official state documents and arealso legal documents that I'd use if I need to prove anything aboutthe data on my SMOG test/registration/etcHave noodled what options I'd have to unbolt, cut out, etc in orderto get my Suburban down to the listed 'curb'...There wouldn't be anycarpet, sound insulation, 4x4, AC, automatic, etc, etc, etc"Test Weight" is the 'curb' weight, not the actual...again, have actually weighed it at a county weights and measure certified scaleat my local garden centerBenK wrote:My Suburban GMT400/1996 was before the weight stickers on the the newerTVs door...So here are my numbers:5,250 curb8,600 GVWR3,350 lb cargo/payload over curbMy 2014 smog certificate...note that this is an official statedocument and the info supplied by each OEM for that VIN...mysub mysuburban mysubsmog mysmog mysubGVWR mysubdoor mysubdoorlable doorlabel subdoorlableMine weighs in around 7,200 at the local garden scales, county weights&measure certified, with me (180) and toolbox (+200) and misc stuff (+50)Also has full up option package, SLT, 4x4, big block, and over sizedwheels and tires8,600 minus7,2001,400 lbs cargo/payloadAll with a 6,000 RGAWR...that AAM rates at 10,000 GAWR. The 6K GAWRGM lists is around 2,000 more than most 'half ton' TVsOh...also ordered the F60 option...which is the 1 ton front snow plow prep packageMy FGAWR is 4,250 and near most half ton's rear GAWR.And here is the glove box RPO code label listing every option thatmy Sub left the factory with...plus I've added lots of stuff...howmany pages would the matrix listing each and each combo of optionstake to list MTWR, GCWR, etc...mysubrpo suburbanrpo mysuburbanrpo{edit}...here is my 1980 Siliverado C10 Big Ten (1500HD of it's era)and note the 'curb' vs GVWRDitto what would I have to unbolt/cut-out/etc to get it down to 'curb'mytrucksmog mysilveradosmog trucksmog silveradosmogActual weight at the dumps...me (180), nephew (180), bed cap (~250),over sized tires/wheels, tools, extra coolant, extra oil, etc, etcThis scale also had the county weights and measure certified stickermytruckweight truckweight silveradoweight truckdumpweightvs it's door ratings labelmytruckdoorlabel truckdoorlabel mytruckgvwr truckgvwrThis one addresses diff ratio and how it affects MTWR/GCWRchanging gear ratio? myth?

What can my Suburban safely tow? | Good Sam Community

40 Replies

travelnman
Explorer
Mar 27, 2016
When towing my biggest concern is the tires. They need to be rated for
the weight your carrying but many use the tires the Burbon came with which
usually are rated for ride comfort not towing weight. I changed the tires
to a higher weight rating and the ride is about the same although I think the
Gas mileage dropped some but something has to give. Another cause for concern
is with the new RV's they are using small fresh water tanks to cover folks
who fill them before they leave which I never do except for water to wash up
with after cleaning the black and gray water tanks so they really do not add
any weight. Some new RV's have thirty gal fresh water tanks, that would drive
me nuts always running out of water and having only electrical hookup. So you
get out your five gal water jug and fetch the water and then try to pour all
that water into a little spout on the RV. That is not my idea of fun. Anyone
see it any different. We have ruled out the new light weight RV's they
especially use small fresh water tanks. OK if you have water hookup but we
usually don't. If you buy a light weight stay at commercial campgrounds and you
have no problem.
Grit_dog
Navigator
Mar 27, 2016
You have a fine tow rig for a 7klb TT. Don't let that make you compromise on your camper.
Remember most of the kodgers here forget when they used to tow the world with trucks that only wished they were as capable as a 6liter 4.10 geared newer full size suv.

You may need to upgrade rear suspension a little
blt2ski
Moderator
Mar 26, 2016
Just towing FAR under a tow capacity, does not mean you are safe and or sane!

I've towed with rigs UNDER gcwr and not gone up a hill, because they were only speced to max out on a 15% grade, I was pulling a 20+% grade. So I could not go up said hill. Another rig I was 2000+ lbs over gcwr, and had no issues going up the same grade.

I've been under gcwr and felt unsafe with a trailer loaded incorrectly and having it sway uncontrollably.

At the end of the day, you need to look at ALL the numbers and decide what is best for you. Personally, I probably would not feel too comfortable towing much over 5000 lbs with our burb and the size of family. Drivetrain wise, ie motor trans and gears, I would have no issues with a 10K trailer, IF it was in a 2500 series burb! a 1500, I would not tow squat with my family! As your burb would be at gvwr BEFORE loading a trailer.

A number of ways to look at things.

marty
RVhavingfun_
Explorer
Mar 26, 2016
travelnman wrote:
We tow a TT dry weight of 6,200lbs loaded with dry tanks it must be 7,500lbs.
GM says our 1500 Suburban with the 5.3 motor and 3.73 axel can tow 8,200lbs, it
does pretty well. Never ever any sway but do have to pull the trany down when
in the mountains and go 20mi hour at times in 1st gear on very steep
grades. Extreme winds are also a effort don't expect to get gas mileage
there either but the suburban comes thru so we are very happy campers. I
also turn off the air conditioning during these times and pretend its the good
old days. I image the six liter would be a big boost over the 5.3. I have been looking for a 2500 with the six liter but they are really hard to find and
the new Suburbans are out of my price bracket and can only hope the FBI has
a auction. In the future I'm wondering who will be able to afford a tow
vehicle and RV, camping is getting to be for the rich. I have seen some
nice motor homes for a fraction of their original cost with low miles. I'm
going to consider that. Never consider them before.

It really is expensive! We aren't willing to even consider updating our tow vehicle at this point, perhaps someday though.
I think one thing that really hurts our Suburban's tow capacity is that whoever owned it before us put every stinking option you could possibly get on that thing! I'm guessing that must add weight? Our payload capacity is slightly under 1,400lbs! We will also frequently be towing in the mountains, so we want to stay as far under our tow capacity as possible.
Aside from finding out that our Suburban doesn't tow any where near what we thought it would I'm pretty in love with that truck! I certainly don't miss my minivan! Lol!
travelnman
Explorer
Mar 26, 2016
We tow a TT dry weight of 6,200lbs loaded with dry tanks it must be 7,500lbs.
GM says our 1500 Suburban with the 5.3 motor and 3.73 axel can tow 8,200lbs, it
does pretty well. Never ever any sway but do have to pull the trany down when
in the mountains and go 20mi hour at times in 1st gear on very steep
grades. Extreme winds are also a effort don't expect to get gas mileage
there either but the suburban comes thru so we are very happy campers. I
also turn off the air conditioning during these times and pretend its the good
old days. I image the six liter would be a big boost over the 5.3. I have been looking for a 2500 with the six liter but they are really hard to find and
the new Suburbans are out of my price bracket and can only hope the FBI has
a auction. In the future I'm wondering who will be able to afford a tow
vehicle and RV, camping is getting to be for the rich. I have seen some
nice motor homes for a fraction of their original cost with low miles. I'm
going to consider that. Never consider them before.
blt2ski
Moderator
Mar 24, 2016
The issue like ALL larger sized families, is you will need one truck sized larger than ratings, due to the family weight itself. My family of 6 would have put this burb at gvwr, WITH OUT a trailer attached. So my true tow rating is zero, zilch, nada, nothing! I needed a 9200 GM Crew cab to handle my family's weight, along with 700 lbs of HW, not to mention the two 150 lbs malamutes with crates, a bike or 6, etc. Usually over 2000 to as much as 3000 lbs was added to my truck to head out camping, then add in the 6500 or so on the trailer axels....

The motor in the 1500 burb is more than capable of handling whatever trailer you want to pull. The issue is the chassis is too light duty for the power part. I've personally found it better to be over truck chassi'd and slightly under powered than over powered and under chass'd/payload!

marty
RVhavingfun_
Explorer
Mar 24, 2016
bikendan wrote:
APT wrote:
Consider ability to sleep while turtled, access to things while traveling, and closing those tent ends when wet/raining.

there's a Hybrid forum here. go ask some questions there, about the 3 bed hybrids, the most popular being the Roo/Shamrock 233S.

Hybrids aren't for everyone. many get pulled in by all floor room and sleeping capacity, without considering the pros and cons to the tent ends.
most hybrid owners are former popup owners and want more amenities but keep the camping feel of the tent ends.
sleeping capacity and floor space are secondary positives.

we've owned ours for almost 10 years and still love it, since we mainly camp in state/county/national parks.
we're not fans of RV parks, therefore do a lot of dry camping.

I did pop over there to ask about a specific model, but I should probably ask for just experiences in general about Hybrids.
I have tent camped many, many, many times! I've even camped with no tent or shelter of any kind. (hippy/mountain man Dad took us survival camping on occasion, you could get away with a lot more in the 80's apparently, lol) I've never camped in a pop-up (or a TT for that matter), but I'm guessing that for us even a hybrid would feel like a big upgrade from the set-up and pack-up involved in tent camping with three kids and two dogs.
I actually really like that the hybrid is a mix of that tent feel with some of the convenience and space of a TT. We also like to camp in both rustic settings (when we camp with my parents we're not even in a park, just up a mountain down a logging road and in a clearing that my Dad likes) and in RV parks with activities and amenities for the kids. So in that aspect it seems like a hybrid would be a good fit.
More research to do though!
bikendan
Explorer
Mar 23, 2016
APT wrote:
Consider ability to sleep while turtled, access to things while traveling, and closing those tent ends when wet/raining.

there's a Hybrid forum here. go ask some questions there, about the 3 bed hybrids, the most popular being the Roo/Shamrock 233S.

Hybrids aren't for everyone. many get pulled in by all floor room and sleeping capacity, without considering the pros and cons to the tent ends.
most hybrid owners are former popup owners and want more amenities but keep the camping feel of the tent ends.
sleeping capacity and floor space are secondary positives.

we've owned ours for almost 10 years and still love it, since we mainly camp in state/county/national parks.
we're not fans of RV parks, therefore do a lot of dry camping.
RVhavingfun_
Explorer
Mar 23, 2016
APT wrote:
Here are two examples of RVs that may work for your family. Tracer Air 244 or 250 vs. Rockwoood Roo 233S. Weight is negligibly different, at least with respect to how they will tow. Length open/closed is a little more different. The quality of materials is close.

I think hybrids are cool coming from tent camping experiences of 10+ years. I looked at them when researching our current TT as we has a less capable truck 6 years ago. But weight savings is not really that significant, at least to consider all the other compromises. If you really like sleeping under a tent - enjoy! If the points I made earlier are not valuable to you or how you plan to camp/RV - open up hybrid options too. Just don't limit yourself to hybrids because you think they are the only light enough RVs to tow.

Thanks! I'll check both of those out!
Right now we are looking at a 2015 Starcraft 229TB priced at $15,000. It seems like a great trailer when all opened up, but it probably wouldn't work if we ever planned to use it closed.
Lots to consider!
APT
Explorer
Mar 23, 2016
Here are two examples of RVs that may work for your family. Tracer Air 244 or 250 vs. Rockwoood Roo 233S. Weight is negligibly different, at least with respect to how they will tow. Length open/closed is a little more different. The quality of materials is close.

I think hybrids are cool coming from tent camping experiences of 10+ years. I looked at them when researching our current TT as we has a less capable truck 6 years ago. But weight savings is not really that significant, at least to consider all the other compromises. If you really like sleeping under a tent - enjoy! If the points I made earlier are not valuable to you or how you plan to camp/RV - open up hybrid options too. Just don't limit yourself to hybrids because you think they are the only light enough RVs to tow.