What is the weak link for Chevy max tow ratings?

ShinerBock wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:

What do you have for an excuse of why GM is now towing with the BigBoys???

Stupidity. Just pissing match bragging rights by fanboys who are the types of people who like to say "mine is better" to help them get through life and will probably never own the truck configuration or licence needed to tow that much. Those kind of tow ratings should be left to heavier medium duty trucks.

Kind of funny that the very same people here who say you shouldn't tow a 10k trailer with a 6k half ton even though it is within its ratings don't mind touting when their favorite brand's truck configuration they will never own is rated to tow 30k+ with an 8k truck.

Unbelievable. I agree stupidity, just don’t agree with where it is being aimed.

Cummins12V98 wrote:

What do you have for an excuse of why GM is now towing with the BigBoys???

Stupidity. Just pissing match bragging rights by fanboys who are the types of people who like to say "mine is better" to help them get through life and will probably never own the truck configuration or licence needed to tow that much. Those kind of tow ratings should be left to heavier medium duty trucks.

Kind of funny that the very same people here who say you shouldn't tow a 10k trailer with a 6k half ton even though it is within its ratings don't mind touting when their favorite brand's truck configuration they will never own is rated to tow 30k+ with an 8k truck.

Cummins12V98 wrote:

Viperpoker wrote:
It looks like the weak link was the transmission and non engine items. And all of you that said things like GM just doesn’t want to get in a pissing match, or GM intentionally underrates the towing numbers, had no clue. Engine, hp, torque did not change. Upgraded trans, axles, ring gears, drive shaft, and frame. Tow rating up to 35,500. 12,000 more than last year. Huge difference between 2019 and earlier GM trucks and this new 2020 model. Much more truck, as ram and ford have already been for a while.

The Silverado HD’s 6.6L turbodiesel V-8 makes 445 hp and 910 lb.-ft. (1,243 Nm) of torque, which is unchanged from the previous generation and short of the 1,000 lb.-ft. (1,355 Nm) generated by the Ram 2500HD with its Cummins 6.7L High Output turbodiesel inline 6-cyl.

But GM hooks the Silverado HD to an all-new Allison 10-speed automatic transmission, which together with upgraded parts such as larger and stronger front and rear axles; larger ring gears to both 2500HD (11.5-in. [292 mm]) and 3500HD (12-in. [305 mm]) models; and 30%-larger prop shafts helps enable a 52% increase in maximum towing capacity to 35,500 lbs. (15,876 kg). The Ram HD’s tow rating is 35,100 lbs. (15,921 kg).

Other Silverado HD upgrades include a stronger frame, which delivers a higher gross combined vehicle weight rating of up to 43,500 lbs. (19,731 kg). A 28-in. (711-mm) diameter variable speed fan, which is 2.5 ins. (64 mm) larger than the one it replaces, will help keep the turbodiesel cool under all that load.

Myself and MeAgain certainly were NOT part of the below comments. :B

"And all of you that said things like GM just doesn’t want to get in a pissing match, or GM intentionally underrates the towing numbers, had no clue."

Plain and simple GM could NOT pass the SAE forward and reverse repeated hill test.

You forgot this one

Grit dog

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There isn't a weak link. A new L5P Dmax will rip the hitch off of a trailer as effectively as the other 2 and GM frames have been stout for a good long time and they use the same rear axles as Ram. So there it is. They are comparable and equally capable. Anyone who says differnet is biased and believes too much of what they read.....

Viperpoker wrote:
It looks like the weak link was the transmission and non engine items. And all of you that said things like GM just doesn’t want to get in a pissing match, or GM intentionally underrates the towing numbers, had no clue. Engine, hp, torque did not change. Upgraded trans, axles, ring gears, drive shaft, and frame. Tow rating up to 35,500. 12,000 more than last year. Huge difference between 2019 and earlier GM trucks and this new 2020 model. Much more truck, as ram and ford have already been for a while.

The Silverado HD’s 6.6L turbodiesel V-8 makes 445 hp and 910 lb.-ft. (1,243 Nm) of torque, which is unchanged from the previous generation and short of the 1,000 lb.-ft. (1,355 Nm) generated by the Ram 2500HD with its Cummins 6.7L High Output turbodiesel inline 6-cyl.

But GM hooks the Silverado HD to an all-new Allison 10-speed automatic transmission, which together with upgraded parts such as larger and stronger front and rear axles; larger ring gears to both 2500HD (11.5-in. [292 mm]) and 3500HD (12-in. [305 mm]) models; and 30%-larger prop shafts helps enable a 52% increase in maximum towing capacity to 35,500 lbs. (15,876 kg). The Ram HD’s tow rating is 35,100 lbs. (15,921 kg).

Other Silverado HD upgrades include a stronger frame, which delivers a higher gross combined vehicle weight rating of up to 43,500 lbs. (19,731 kg). A 28-in. (711-mm) diameter variable speed fan, which is 2.5 ins. (64 mm) larger than the one it replaces, will help keep the turbodiesel cool under all that load.

Myself and MeAgain certainly were NOT part of the below comments. :B

"And all of you that said things like GM just doesn’t want to get in a pissing match, or GM intentionally underrates the towing numbers, had no clue."

Plain and simple GM could NOT pass the SAE forward and reverse repeated hill test.

Lantley wrote:
I think the mechanical reason is the 3.73 gear ratio.
The marketing or competitive reason is their is limited market or reason to compete for customers at the higher tow rating.
Maybe GM needs to consider adding other gear ratios, however there is no market share or real demand for them to do so. Bragging rights do not always equate to sales.

YES the 3.73 was part of it but the RAM had at least 3k more SAE towing with the same gears and LESS power.

What do you think of the 3,42's? I'm thinking EXTREMELY low starting and reverse gearing.

Personally I would love to lock out my 1st gear with 4.10's and AISIN when running BobTail.

FishOnOne wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:

Me Again wrote:
Allison 1000 transmission!

YUP! The mighty Allison is at the end of its power limitations. All three are SAE rated. If GM could compete with RAM n Ford they sure as HE!! Would.

Engine just had big HP n TQ increases so that is not the issue.

C,
What about the mighty sushi aisin backing big power.

OP,
GM is targeting the largest percentage of the market with their trucks towing capabilities.

Well "Fish" it looks like a Magic Wand and a little electronic tweaking and it will be eating up 400hp and 1,000#' TQ.

What do you have for an excuse of why GM is now towing with the BigBoys???

Targeting BS, HA.

Cummins12V98 wrote:

Me Again wrote:
Allison 1000 transmission!

YUP! The mighty Allison is at the end of its power limitations. All three are SAE rated. If GM could compete with RAM n Ford they sure as HE!! Would.

Engine just had big HP n TQ increases so that is not the issue.

YUP, YUP!!!

It looks like the weak link was the transmission and non engine items. And all of you that said things like GM just doesn’t want to get in a pissing match, or GM intentionally underrates the towing numbers, had no clue. Engine, hp, torque did not change. Upgraded trans, axles, ring gears, drive shaft, and frame. Tow rating up to 35,500. 12,000 more than last year. Huge difference between 2019 and earlier GM trucks and this new 2020 model. Much more truck, as ram and ford have already been for a while.

The Silverado HD’s 6.6L turbodiesel V-8 makes 445 hp and 910 lb.-ft. (1,243 Nm) of torque, which is unchanged from the previous generation and short of the 1,000 lb.-ft. (1,355 Nm) generated by the Ram 2500HD with its Cummins 6.7L High Output turbodiesel inline 6-cyl.

But GM hooks the Silverado HD to an all-new Allison 10-speed automatic transmission, which together with upgraded parts such as larger and stronger front and rear axles; larger ring gears to both 2500HD (11.5-in. [292 mm]) and 3500HD (12-in. [305 mm]) models; and 30%-larger prop shafts helps enable a 52% increase in maximum towing capacity to 35,500 lbs. (15,876 kg). The Ram HD’s tow rating is 35,100 lbs. (15,921 kg).

Other Silverado HD upgrades include a stronger frame, which delivers a higher gross combined vehicle weight rating of up to 43,500 lbs. (19,731 kg). A 28-in. (711-mm) diameter variable speed fan, which is 2.5 ins. (64 mm) larger than the one it replaces, will help keep the turbodiesel cool under all that load.

blt2ski wrote:

CumminsDriver wrote:
I haven't seen it mentioned yet, but transmission gear ratios along with only having the 3.73 gears hurts the GM for the big tow ratings. The Allison has a 3.23 first gear compared to the Aisin with 3.72 I believe and the Fords 3.93 first gear. Throw in the 4.10 gears for the Ram and Ford and you have much better take off capability compared to the GM.

Rich

Did Allison lower the ratios of the 1000? Last I saw the 1000 and two of the 2000 series had a 3.10 1st gear. Two versions of the 2000 had a 3.54? 1st gear. OD and DOD were .71/.61 vs .74/.64 for the two. Do NOT remember 2nd and 3rd off the top of my head.
GM would get a lot more take off using the lower geared 2000 optioned trans. Being it the parking pawl version, or the pawless version, which last I saw was rated higher by 10,000 lbs or so.

Marty

Thee 2100/2200 has the same ratios as the 1000, the 2500 has the lower gears across the board including OD's.

http://www.allisontransmission.com/docs/default-source/specification-sheets/int2500_sa5340(201306)blk.pdf?sfvrsn=2

ScottG wrote:
Both Ford and Ram went through major redesigns of their frames to achieve the 30K towing number. I suspect GM would need to do the same thing and they have said that they don't feel the market is worth it because it only accounts for 3% of HD trucks sold.

Makes sense to me. I am thinking that that 3% are members of this forum. I know a lot of people who have diesels from all three and several who have the 1500 Ecodiesel. None of these guys have any idea of tow capacity, axle ratios or transmissions on any of them. Almost all tow nothing. Some buy because they believe the Ram is the best and the word "Ram" needs no further explanation. Some love to say "I have a "SuperDuty" as if it was a status symbol. Almost lost a friend when I told him that his 1500 had little load capacity and could not be used in the same load rating as the 2500/3500. He also didn't like it when I told him not to be idling that diesel just because it has a remote start. They say they bought them because of mileage without realizing the cost of the diesel option or that diesel is 50 to 60 cents more per gallon.:)