Will it sway?

I know this post is kind of old, but I thought I'd post an update. First of all, I did the trip with only minor problems along the way.

I know there was concern about my driving experience with such a large trailer. I found out that the trailer was actually 34' instead of the 32' that I was told before pickup. I used to drive a tractor trailer (40' & 53' reefers), so I'm kind of OK in the area of pulling trailers. I've also flat towed, dollied, and trailered cars from coast to coast with my pickup through all sorts of weather and terrain.

Semi-trailers are a much different kind of animal than a full trailer and handle much differently. That was my motivation for getting input from a community of experienced TT drivers.

The trailer's (an older unit with no slides) weights were obtained from the data sticker when I posted. When I started the trip, I weighed the rig and the trailer was actually lighter than the sticker because all three holding tanks, both propane bottles, two large cabinets, and a near residential sized refrigerator had all been removed. Even throwing my luggage and tools in the trailer, it still weighed less than its advertised dry weight.

I only had three problems along the way. The first was that I used the wrong ball mount (a 4" drop model) that caused the tongue jack to strike a few times in the first 20 miles. I pulled out a 2" rise ball mount from my tow box and that fixed that. The second was excessive tongue weight that was making the truck porpoise on bumps. I moved my luggage and tools to the back and that solved that. The third problem was an ice storm in Maryland that forced me to spend a night in a Lowe's parking lot with no propane. Brrr.

Overall, the trip went well. I tested the rig up to 75mph and not a bit of sway was noted. I traveled at 50-60 mph depending on conditions and averaged about 9.7 mpg with my half ton Hemi. On the scale, the trailer weighed 3401 at the axles and had a 779 tongue weight (before I moved the luggage and tools) for a gross of 4180 lbs loaded.

RK

rider997 wrote:

John,

You have a lot of great suggestions here, but depending on the OP's TV, it may well be capable of very safely towing the load.

A modern 1/2 ton (let's take a new Chevrolet Silverado for example) has a factory weight carrying capacity of 800lbs, 1200lbs WD, is rated to tow about 10,000 lbs, etc.

His truck is rated to tow 8,600, so let's derate a little.

Still, it takes a bit of imagination to consider a 4500lb empty TT with proper tongue weight to be a serious burden or danger when towed with such a vehicle -- which includes a WD hitch -- as long as prudent speed is used.

Realize that modern 1/2 ton pickups are nearly as capable as 3/4 tons not a decade ago, and the GCWR isn't far off either.

I completely agree that one would have to be bananas to pull off some of the stunts you see out there with light pickups, but in this case there's a massive safety margin and an experienced driver in the equation.

Hi rider997,

Thanks for the note. We are missing a number of pieces of crucial information. The OP, rjkfsm, never told us what TV he was using. He never told us what the weight carrying rating sticker on his receiver was. We have no idea if he has a 2014 new Silverado crew cab long bed or the first generation Duragno with a Hemi in it. He also said he did not want to deal with a WD hitch.

The caution expressed on a 1,000 mile trip dealt with the trucks receivers ability to handle the ratings and the trucks ability to control that dead weight with no WD. You will notice I never mentioned he could not pull it. It is can he control it, and not have equipment failure.

Having and accurate 600# TW in WC mode on the wrong suspension truck can be a safety issue. He is not doing this for a 10 mile tow down the road. It is a 1,000 miles I have been non some of the roads he is talking about with 35 mph cross winds. And unless they scaled that TW, it could be 700 or worse 400#.

The 1 ton truck rental dealt with trucks ability to be stable and no WD. Remember he did not want to bother with WD. It was an option, he did not have to use it but it would work.

It took time to type the response I gave, the hope was to lend a hand to someone new to towing a camper for the 1st time, they would read it and stop and think first. If he has all the bases covered, then great. If not it may have uncovered a few that they need to address.
The other items where heads up on travel trailers. Again we have no idea if this is a 15 year old trailer or a brand new one. He said he had towing experience on cargo trailers, but this was his 1st TT and 32 foot at that. So I gave them some more to check that they may not have thought about.

Camping forums may have been the best thing there is in helping new comers towing a camper ask questions and get some help. Most times they have no idea what to even ask nor tell those more experienced on what they have to know if it is important. So we have to try and get it from them. Since they have not responded back, they may have what they need.

I agree the newer 1/2 ton trucks have the stronger pulling drive train, however the payload capability while increased in some cases takes a specialized 1/2 ton to deal with the higher TW’s and “stuff” we put in the truck bed. They are great trucks, again needing to understand the weak areas so they do not get the driver into a problem. Properly sized and matched with the right hitch gear, they are a great thing.

Just like you said, the TT has to have proper TW for balance and you need the WD hitch. Now we just need the OP to tell us if he needs more.

Stay warm. It’s cold as all heck here today.

John

JBarca wrote:

rjkfsm wrote:
I have a brake controller and a WD hitch, but no bars. I will be driving in the mountains from MO to MD.

The shortest route for me is I-70 all the way through southern PA where they got 8"+ of snow in the last 24 hours. While no snow is in the immediate forecast and they should have time to clear the roads before I get there, I will go the southern route if I have to.

RK

Now your receiver, look for a sticker on it, the receiver itself or the owners manual. It could be rated very low with no WD hitch. And even then, 600# on a 1/2 ton with no WD is something to really think through. I myself would not do it for a 1,000 mile trip. The front end of the truck will be bobbing around, that 32 foot TT can be pushing hard on the cross winds of I70 from IN to Ohio. It's flat land in that area. No WD and no anti sway and light truck = stop and really think if you want to do this.

Since you have a hitch head, is it adjustable in height? Do you know a brand, or take a pic and show us, we can spot most all brands. You want the camper towing level, no nose high and not real nose low either. Real nose high can aggravate sway. Real nose low and it loads too much weight on the front TT axle. Back to old tires, long distance and the front axle under high weight.

Options:

1. Let us see if we can help you get the hitch and shank to work with a set of used or new WD bars, chains and snap up brackets. Or better buy an entire used WD hitch on craig's list and then sell it again. If you are going to keep the camper, then the hitch is needed anyway.

2. Rent a 1 ton truck with a receiver rated for weight carrying that can handle 750 to 1,000# in weight carrying mode. Hot shotters deliver campers all this time with no WD hitch but they have a heavy truck and do this for a living.

There is risk to what you are asking about and trying to help you lower it to a manageable state. 800 to 1,000 miles, 600# TW, 1/2 ton truck that is at least a full size pickup, 32 foot camper, no WD hitch and no sway control, for me, no I would not do it. I would get the truck setup to take care of that TW. That is a lot of trailer. If this is a Durango etc, we need to talk some more.

That is one long ways for a rig not setup right. Given the wrong circumstances this can get bad quick. Not trying to scare you, help educate and not see you get into trouble if we can at least help it.

Hope this helps

John

John,

You have a lot of great suggestions here, but depending on the OP's TV, it may well be capable of very safely towing the load.

A modern 1/2 ton (let's take a new Chevrolet Silverado for example) has a factory weight carrying capacity of 800lbs, 1200lbs WD, is rated to tow about 10,000 lbs, etc.

His truck is rated to tow 8,600, so let's derate a little.

Still, it takes a bit of imagination to consider a 4500lb empty TT with proper tongue weight to be a serious burden or danger when towed with such a vehicle -- which includes a WD hitch -- as long as prudent speed is used.

Realize that modern 1/2 ton pickups are nearly as capable as 3/4 tons not a decade ago, and the GCWR isn't far off either.

I completely agree that one would have to be bananas to pull off some of the stunts you see out there with light pickups, but in this case there's a massive safety margin and an experienced driver in the equation.

At the risk of repeating myself, beg or borrow or rent ALL of the equipment to do this the right way, even if it is "just one time". It's not gonna be easy to explain to the officers/insurance/judge/family that "it was just one time". That's all it takes. Be safe and keep others safe.

JBarca wrote:

Hi RK,

MO to MD on I70, that's a good hike. Do not know the starting location or the ending location, so I mapped St Louis to Baltimore, 900 miles. And in this case, 800 or 1,000 miles won't change what I'm going to suggest you think through.

That distance for a 1st time TT tower is something to think through and by asking us, good for you, your thinking about it.

32 foot TT, that's my camper length just my weights are higher. I'll express caution and here are some things to think through so you go in eyes wide open and better prepared.

What 1/2 ton do you have? Need year, make, model, as a starter. Need cab configuration and bed length. Or better, the wheel base if you have it. We do not know if you have a crew cab long bed Chevy 1500 or a older body style Dodge Durango. Can give better cautions on what to watch out for if we know more. Oh and be prepared for 8 to 10 mpg while towing. We all are shocked by it the 1st time we see the gas gage drop like that.... Use tow haul if it has it or drop it in 3rd if it is an OD setup and if it starts hunting 3rd to OD non stop. Need to keep that tranny heat down.

Towing mirrors, odds are high that is an 8 foot wide camper. You need towing mirrors on a trip like this. You need to be able to see the back of the camper on both sides. Without towing mirrors to extend out further than the camper width it's a problem seeing back there. Ideally it is 8 feet between the inside of the mirrors.

Tires, both the truck and the camper. Let's start with the camper, how old are they? If this is an older camper this is a heads up. ST trailer tires that are approaching 5 years old can have issues with cracking side walls or in the tread. Heck some can at 3 years old.

A tire failure can be a hand full to deal with. They are going to heat up on a trip of this length. There are DOT date codes on the side walls so you can tell the date. Look up "DOT date code" on the web they tell you how to decode the date. If there is no DOT date code, they are for sure too old... May have to check both side of the tire. Do not go by thread depth as many trailer tires die way before the tread ever wears out. Regardless of age, these tires need to be up at max cold side wall pressure for towing for stability and running cooler. Take a compressor or some how get to a gas station quick. Do not run them at all 1/2 inflated. How is the spare tire for the camper? Bring a jack and wrenches to change a flat. A torque wrench for 100 ft lb for the wheels and check at the 50, 100 and 150 miles mark after changing the wheel. These TTs have no center pilot like a auto, the nuts loosen up until full seated.

The truck, tires here can be a hand full too. What size/type do you have? P type tires are common on the 1/2 ton. The rears can be air'ed up to max cold side wall pressure without too much trouble to create a stiffer side wall. The front will be an experiment. For sure door sticker pressure and then go up 10 psi if you have room before max cold pressure. If the truck does not bounce so bad you can go all the way to max cold. Just air them up before towing so you do not have to ride in the broncho all the way out there. When you load it up with the camper it will ride better than empty. If the tires are soggy side walls, towing instability can come from this.

Camper axle bearings, any idea the last time they where ever serviced? Do the brakes work?

Now your receiver, look for a sticker on it, the receiver itself or the owners manual. It could be rated very low with no WD hitch. And even then, 600# on a 1/2 ton with no WD is something to really think through. I myself would not do it for a 1,000 mile trip. The front end of the truck will be bobbing around, that 32 foot TT can be pushing hard on the cross winds of I70 from IN to Ohio. It's flat land in that area. No WD and no anti sway and light truck = stop and really think if you want to do this.

Since you have a hitch head, is it adjustable in height? Do you know a brand, or take a pic and show us, we can spot most all brands. You want the camper towing level, no nose high and not real nose low either. Real nose high can aggravate sway. Real nose low and it loads too much weight on the front TT axle. Back to old tires, long distance and the front axle under high weight.

Options:

1. Let us see if we can help you get the hitch and shank to work with a set of used or new WD bars, chains and snap up brackets. Or better buy an entire used WD hitch on craig's list and then sell it again. If you are going to keep the camper, then the hitch is needed anyway.

2. Rent a 1 ton truck with a receiver rated for weight carrying that can handle 750 to 1,000# in weight carrying mode. Hot shotters deliver campers all this time with no WD hitch but they have a heavy truck and do this for a living.

There is risk to what you are asking about and trying to help you lower it to a manageable state. 800 to 1,000 miles, 600# TW, 1/2 ton truck that is at least a full size pickup, 32 foot camper, no WD hitch and no sway control, for me, no I would not do it. I would get the truck setup to take care of that TW. That is a lot of trailer. If this is a Durango etc, we need to talk some more.

That is one long ways for a rig not setup right. Given the wrong circumstances this can get bad quick. Not trying to scare you, help educate and not see you get into trouble if we can at least help it.

Hope this helps

John

RinconVTR wrote:
Sway control is just that...control. Its not there to prevent or cover up sway issues, its there just in case you need it when crosswinds get bad or a semi's push upsets things. No trailer should sway just going down the highway under normal conditions.

The trailer in question is well within your limits and you do not "need" a WDH or sway control. It can only help if things get rough.

I would pull this trailer with your truck as-is without a second thought.

These comments struck me as the endpoints of the continuum of opinions here on the RV forum.

1. On a scale of 1-10, with 1 being the least cautious and 10 being the most cautious, where would you say your attitude toward towing a large trailer falls?

2. Using that same 1-10 scale, rate the importance of the following:

a. Towing mirrors
b. Weight distribution
c. Sway control

3. Considering your answers above, please rate these two posts above on a scale of 1-10, where 10 represents a clear experience-based understanding of the variables that affect the safety and stability of a tow setup, and where 1 indicates that the author couldn't find his arse with both hands.....

rjkfsm wrote:
On a one time basis, I will be towing a 32' travel trailer. The trailer is totally empty and dry and weighs about 4,500 lbs. There will be about 200 lbs of cargo put inside near the front, so toungue weight should be around 600 lbs.

The truck is a 1/2 ton with a 8,600 lb tow rating. I have towed 4,000 lb trailers and cars with no problems at all even through the mountains. 400 lbs of cargo with a 300 lb toungue weight trailer made the truck sit level since unloaded it has a slight rake.

Since it is a one time tow, I don't want to invest in sway bars and such and I am planning on driving about 55-60 mph max. I know there are no absolutes, but opinions would be appreciated.

RK

Sway control is just that...control. Its not there to prevent or cover up sway issues, its there just in case you need it when crosswinds get bad or a semi's push upsets things. No trailer should sway just going down the highway under normal conditions.

The trailer in question is well within your limits and you do not "need" a WDH or sway control. It can only help if things get rough.

I would pull this trailer with your truck as-is without a second thought.

I guarantee you it will start to sway once you get over about 50 mph. Been there done that....

He said that he had a W/D but no bars. I have seen a lot of bars on Craigslist for a few dollars. Might be better to invest in bars, than take a chance.
If time permits.

And if sway is the only concern, Harbor Freight has a sway bar for $30.00 and many places have something like this.

http://www.americanrvcompany.com/Reese-26003-Sway-Control-Adapter-Bracket-for-use-with-Class-III-&-Class-IV-2-Inch-Square-Ball-Mounts-Camper-Trailer-RV?gclid=CJqQgovQnrsCFYEDOgodGlYAVQ

Francesca Knowles wrote:

Could be an old one- TT's didn't used to be so heavy. Heck, a 1978 31 foot Airstream, for example, weighed only 4800 pounds dry. Link
And it was the monster trailer of the day!

The Airstreams and Avions were the lightest of that vintage. Everything else weighed just as much or more than newer TT's. It's about how the frames were built and the cost of materials, they could use more of everything.

I question that starting weight, too. The OP says it's stripped but does that mean fixtures and appliances have been removed? If not, an error in weight assumptions could mean a miserable trip. I'd also advocate for using a WDH, no matter what the cost. As has been mentioned, it can be sold after the trip to recoup expense.

Francesca Knowles wrote:


Also, for those that think otherwise: this fellow isn't a "first time tower", at least according to this portion of his opening post:

That is a good thing having prior towing experience. However,

I would say there is a significant difference in towing an 8 foot wide, 32 foot long TT over a 6 x 10 cargo trailer or an open flat bed etc of the same exact weight. All the cautions so far are about controlling the rig, not pulling it. Do you agree?