You choose - loaded gas or basic diesel?

Just ran some numbers to see how much of a difference it would be, eco vs 6.2, for power in each gear. It just so happens that the engine speed is almost identical between the two trucks for all gears. Here is the power deficit of the 6.2 in each gear compared to the eco (approximate numbers from eyeballing Ford power curves). This assumes a speed of 62MPH.

6: -10HP
5: -20HP
4: -40HP
3: -25HP
2: +25HP (peak vs peak, which is debatable because most eco's make 380+ vs the advertised 365HP)

You can see the biggest difference is in 4th, which is where the eco first reaches peak torque of 420 ft-lb.

I was also interested in how the 6.2 compared to the eco if it ran 1 gear lower.

5: +30HP but +400RPM (6.2 in 5th vs eco in 6th)
4: +20HP but +700RPM
3: +30HP but +900RPM
2: +95HP but +1950RPM

So, on average, the eco has about a 1/2 gear advantage on the 6.2 and anywhere from 200-450RPM advantage.

Finally, considering I rarely needed more power than 4th gear at 2800RPM with the eco, the 6.2 in 3rd gear at 3700RPM makes 30HP more. So, I shouldn't need any more than that during our typical trips, even with the 1000lb heavier vehicle.

Haven't hooked up to anything yet but the 6.2 sure sounds awesome! That's one thing I did miss when I had the eco. Can't wait to hook up. Only problem so far is that it's too tall for the garage door opening:S

Very nice truck... BTW looks like a jewel! :W

otrfun wrote:

goducks10 wrote:

otrfun wrote:
It's an interesting dilemma when folks like the OP find a 1/2 ton truck too little truck, and a 3/4 ton diesel too much truck.

The Big 3 diesel "torque war" has created an interesting situation. For those folks who tow mid-sized loads, they're going to be left with an interesting choice in the next couple of years. Either a 450 ft. lb., high revving, fuel hungry, gasser, or a 1,000 ft. lb., stump-pulling, diesel monster-truck.

IMO, it's a ridiculous to have nothing in-between. Any suggestions?

You bring up a common situation. Mine's like you stated. We only tow a 9000lb 5'er but we tow in Oregon and are living at 132' El. Every where we go is up over a mtn pass. Lots of up and down heading east or west. We towed 7300lbs with a 1/2 ton gasser all over Oregon and Nor Cal. Lots of revving. Nature of the beast I guess.

We now tow with a 3/4 ton diesel. Is it necessary for 9000lbs? Maybe, maybe not. If I was in Tx or Fl no. But with the mtns all around it just makes it more relaxing. Don't get there any faster. And in reality the newer 400+hp-400+tq gassers with a 4.10 would probably be more than adequate. I do get 10.5-11.9mpg. A gasser won't do that. But then there's the fuel cost difference. Do I need a 1 ton. Heck no. Could I get by with an HD F150? No because my RAW is 4900lbs. 100lbs more than the HD @4800. Am I overkill on my truck? Sometimes, like when just cruising down the freeway at 62-65mph in 6th at 1600rpms. But hit the mtns and it makes more sense.

Sometimes it's not always cut and dried. If I was towing 11-12,000lbs it would be simple. Or like I said if I lived in a flat state it would be another factor in decision making.

Too many variables for one simple answer.

Yes, given the choices we have right now, you're take is right on the money. It's a major compromise when you have "mid-sized" towing requirements.

I guess what I was hinting at, is the need for either a Heavy Duty 1/2 ton or a "light-duty" 3/4 ton diesel with a "mid-sized" diesel engine. Something with 500-550 ft. lbs of torque that delivers better MPG's than the current 3/4 ton diesel offerings (and much, much better MPG's than the current high-torque V8's). Something like this would be the perfect combination for those that have "mid-sized" towing requirements (10,000-12,000 lbs.). If such a beast were available, you would see a lot less threads about gas vs. diesel and/or 1/2 ton vs. 3/4 ton.

The 5.0L Cummins that Dodge/Ram was gonna use would have fit your wishes exactly.

Third choice is to put less into the trailer or to buy a lighter trailer. Manufacturers have spent the past 10 years working to make their trailers lighter and at the same time more spacious with one or more slide-outs. While traveling I have seen a big shift in the average size trailer at campgrounds with a lot more small trailers pulled by mid-size SUV's.

Whenever I ask one of the owners about their trailer they are universally happy with it and not one has said that they plan to sell it and get something bigger (which would also require a new tow vehicle). But they are using them on short trips of a couple weeks and not using them to spend weeks or longer at a locations much less full time RVer's.

I appreciate having the diesel when going up and especially when going down steep grades but I also know that the time I spend in such areas is less than one percent of our time on the road and amounts to less than 40 minutes in total on the average 2-3 week trip we take through the mountainous western states.

When I go up a 10 mile 8% section of highway at 65 MPH instead of 45 MPH I know I have saved a trivial amount of time. It is really only when going down a 8% grade one a 20-30 mile section of road and having the speed control of the diesel and not having to seldom touch the brakes that I truly find the diesel beneficial and that is more in stress reduction for that short period of time.

There is absolutely no need to rationalize buying diesel anymore than wanting air conditioning or satellite radio or heated seats or a travel trailer with a large screen TV, forced air furnace, large fridge, dry bath, etc. for "camping".
The only mistake is to confuse these luxuries as being necessities for traveling.

otrfun wrote:

goducks10 wrote:

otrfun wrote:
It's an interesting dilemma when folks like the OP find a 1/2 ton truck too little truck, and a 3/4 ton diesel too much truck.

The Big 3 diesel "torque war" has created an interesting situation. For those folks who tow mid-sized loads, they're going to be left with an interesting choice in the next couple of years. Either a 450 ft. lb., high revving, fuel hungry, gasser, or a 1,000 ft. lb., stump-pulling, diesel monster-truck.

IMO, it's a ridiculous to have nothing in-between. Any suggestions?

You bring up a common situation. Mine's like you stated. We only tow a 9000lb 5'er but we tow in Oregon and are living at 132' El. Every where we go is up over a mtn pass. Lots of up and down heading east or west. We towed 7300lbs with a 1/2 ton gasser all over Oregon and Nor Cal. Lots of revving. Nature of the beast I guess.

We now tow with a 3/4 ton diesel. Is it necessary for 9000lbs? Maybe, maybe not. If I was in Tx or Fl no. But with the mtns all around it just makes it more relaxing. Don't get there any faster. And in reality the newer 400+hp-400+tq gassers with a 4.10 would probably be more than adequate. I do get 10.5-11.9mpg. A gasser won't do that. But then there's the fuel cost difference. Do I need a 1 ton. Heck no. Could I get by with an HD F150? No because my RAW is 4900lbs. 100lbs more than the HD @4800. Am I overkill on my truck? Sometimes, like when just cruising down the freeway at 62-65mph in 6th at 1600rpms. But hit the mtns and it makes more sense.

Sometimes it's not always cut and dried. If I was towing 11-12,000lbs it would be simple. Or like I said if I lived in a flat state it would be another factor in decision making.

Too many variables for one simple answer.

Yes, given the choices we have right now, you're take is right on the money. It's a major compromise when you have "mid-sized" towing requirements.

I guess what I was hinting at, is the need for either a Heavy Duty 1/2 ton or a "light-duty" 3/4 ton diesel with a "mid-sized" diesel engine. Something with 500-550 ft. lbs of torque that delivers better MPG's than the current 3/4 ton diesel offerings (and much, much better MPG's than the current high-torque V8's). Something like this would be the perfect combination for those that have "mid-sized" towing requirements (10,000-12,000 lbs.). If such a beast were available, you would see a lot less threads about gas vs. diesel and/or 1/2 ton vs. 3/4 ton.

The new Ram 1500 Diesel is a good start, but the payload is horribly low...if it had the payload of a Ford HD 150, that would be a good compromise...or if Ford decided to put a mid sized diesel in that platform it could be good...but it seems Ford is invested heavily in the EB technology

goducks10 wrote:

otrfun wrote:
It's an interesting dilemma when folks like the OP find a 1/2 ton truck too little truck, and a 3/4 ton diesel too much truck.

The Big 3 diesel "torque war" has created an interesting situation. For those folks who tow mid-sized loads, they're going to be left with an interesting choice in the next couple of years. Either a 450 ft. lb., high revving, fuel hungry, gasser, or a 1,000 ft. lb., stump-pulling, diesel monster-truck.

IMO, it's a ridiculous to have nothing in-between. Any suggestions?

You bring up a common situation. Mine's like you stated. We only tow a 9000lb 5'er but we tow in Oregon and are living at 132' El. Every where we go is up over a mtn pass. Lots of up and down heading east or west. We towed 7300lbs with a 1/2 ton gasser all over Oregon and Nor Cal. Lots of revving. Nature of the beast I guess.

We now tow with a 3/4 ton diesel. Is it necessary for 9000lbs? Maybe, maybe not. If I was in Tx or Fl no. But with the mtns all around it just makes it more relaxing. Don't get there any faster. And in reality the newer 400+hp-400+tq gassers with a 4.10 would probably be more than adequate. I do get 10.5-11.9mpg. A gasser won't do that. But then there's the fuel cost difference. Do I need a 1 ton. Heck no. Could I get by with an HD F150? No because my RAW is 4900lbs. 100lbs more than the HD @4800. Am I overkill on my truck? Sometimes, like when just cruising down the freeway at 62-65mph in 6th at 1600rpms. But hit the mtns and it makes more sense.

Sometimes it's not always cut and dried. If I was towing 11-12,000lbs it would be simple. Or like I said if I lived in a flat state it would be another factor in decision making.

Too many variables for one simple answer.

Yes, given the choices we have right now, you're take is right on the money. It's a major compromise when you have "mid-sized" towing requirements.

I guess what I was hinting at, is the need for either a Heavy Duty 1/2 ton or a "light-duty" 3/4 ton diesel with a "mid-sized" diesel engine. Something with 500-550 ft. lbs of torque that delivers better MPG's than the current 3/4 ton diesel offerings (and much, much better MPG's than the current high-torque V8's). Something like this would be the perfect combination for those that have "mid-sized" towing requirements (10,000-12,000 lbs.). If such a beast were available, you would see a lot less threads about gas vs. diesel and/or 1/2 ton vs. 3/4 ton.

Congratulations, Buck50HD! Nice looking truck! I've always liked the look of the Ford Super Duty's, especially the front.

It'll be interesting to hear your towing observations. Your Ecoboost developed it's max torque at almost half the RPM's of the 6.2. That's gonna make for a different towing experience for sure.

Nice truck!
Hope you don't miss the turbo torque.
Waiting on your first tow report as to how it compares with your old Ecoboost.

Sharp looking truck!

It's not as quick as the eco but doesn't feel underpowered. I'm still getting used to having to downshift instead of just building boost. Just needs more throttle input to force downshifts. They did a good job of taming the engine noise in the cab as the downshifts are not alarming. You know you're riding in a truck... it's not as refined as the eco/F150HD. There's a lot more vibration at the driver controls. Seems jittery over rough roads but I'm guessing this will go away when loaded. The GM HD's I test drove were the same.

If that F150HD had a 6000 lb rear axle, I'd probably still have it(with an extended warranty:). Could have made it work but it's not worth the fiddling with watching weights.

Payload sticker is about 2750, even with lariat trim and the chrome package steps. Took it over the scale and there's 3100 lb on the rear axle with me in it. So, 3000 lb capacity remaining. That's about 800 lb more rear axle capacity than I had with the other truck and in reality, I know it will handle more, safely. The 20's are rated for a combined 7500 lb. I like that.

Here it is, bling and all. Needs a tonneau cover, 5th mounting hardware and 7-pin plug in the bed.