A heads up on power

[Tequila]

On our caravaan, we had damage to some rigs due to bad power. It was a 160 V. I tell people to buy either a surge guard or progressive industries protector. I am going to have to be more specific in future as to what they specifically need to purchase. We had

1) a blown digital clock
2) a blown convertor board
3) a blown satellite receiver PVR

In the first 2 cases they had bought a cheaper device to protect against surges (made by surge guard, which was the casue of the issue, 4 of the rigs had bought a cheaper product also made by surge guard that only protects aginst surges). This does nothing for continuous high or low voltage. In the case of the satellite, they had the protector, but did not use it because it blocked the power (duh, that is what its supposed to do.)

I have ordered a replacement convertor board to be sent to Mexico Mike, and he will re ship it for me. I have the skills & tools to change it out.

In future, our policy witll be to inspect what everybody has at the border to make sure they have the correct type of protection before they cross.

For readers here, it should be a lesson in why you need to protect your rig against bad power. Just putting things like your fridge on gas won't cut it, just being plugged in can blow stuff in your rig even if they are not turned on.

[Almot]

briansue wrote:

In Mexico "standard" is 127 - and it can go high and it can go low. This will trip some surge protectors some of the time. To keep our protection from tripping we have an ISB which attempts to regulate voltage to 120 (the "standard" for most appliances and equipment).

Yes. Appliances designed for lower "standard" than the "standard" of power lines because there is (usually) lower voltage in receptacles. If only they were sticking to their Mex standards a little better.
In the US the "standard" is 120 but what they probably didn't tell you in school is that median voltage is 117. This is what people's toasters and other things mostly run on.

[pianotuna]

Agreed,

But the autoformer boosts the voltage so on the end users side no damage happens to the electric motors.

In my case the campground voltage is low--but the wattage being used was 1900 out of a possible 3000 (30 amps @ 100 volts). So an autoformer would work well. Even a 20 amp supply would have enough 'omff' to do the deed.

Tequila wrote:
Power does not come from nowhere, no voltage reguator is going to fix the problem if it cannot draw enough current.

[pianotuna]

Hi briansue,

Yes, low voltage burns out electric motors. The damage is progressive and not reversible. I'm unhappy at 107 volts. I turn off at 105. At 106 volts with only the 13500 btu air conditioner running on the low fan speed, the unit draws 1900 watts. That was at a 30 amp service in a campground.

That is why I want the ISB sola 4000.

briansue wrote:
My understanding about A/C compressor motors is low voltage is the killer

[Tequila]

Power does not come from nowhere, no voltage reguator is going to fix the problem if it cannot draw enough current.

[briansue]

My understanding about A/C compressor motors is low voltage is the killer - they have to work too hard and wear out. But I don't personally know that for sure - just what I have been told. It could be low voltage just above where the surge protector is set to kick off. We spend most of our time in Mexico in the central mountains where A/C is rarely needed. If there are a lot of RVs running a lot of A/Cs at a beach park and the incoming power and wiring is not adequate you are probably going to see a lot of low voltage. We have been to parks on the coast where the power is so low there is no way anyone can run an A/C. On the other hand with the standard in Mexico at 127 VAC there are many places where high voltage will be seen. You just never know for sure if you travel around. If you stay at only one or two places you get to know what to expect.

[time2roll]

Talleyho69 wrote:
It's 8:15pm, and 85 degrees here.

We run the Progressive Industries EMS, and it clicks off at about 102 and 132. We just, this evening, fried our second AC compressor this season. The second one is while we are waiting for the Sola Basic 4000 voltage regulator we purchased on Mercado Libre. Yes, we have called the AC guy, and hopefully he'll be here in the morning.

Seems odd to me for two air units to fail for voltage issues behind the PI EMS.

[briansue]

VA and amps? Divide the VA rating by the incoming voltage

An ISB 4000 in Mexico with standard Mexican voltage of 127?

4000 divided by 127 = 31.49606299212598 amp

In the US 4000 divided by 120 = 33.333333333

In Mexico 8000 divided by 127 = 62.99212598425197

In the US 8000 divided by 120 = 66.66666666666

This is all theoretical math and there will be variations depending on equipment and actual voltage and the conditions of the electrical circuits you might be connected to.

Keep in mind that in Mexico many outlets in RV parks may not even be 30amp – they could be 15 or 20amp.

But as a general rule in Mexico you would not need more than the 4 KVA (4000 VA model).

[briansue]

the eco wise has been completely reliable and has supplied a constant voltage plus or minus 4 volts. I have no complaints, just wish it would take 2 hot wires instead of just one.That would allow me to use its full capacity of 50 amps. (2 legs)

I think the Eco Wise is probably very similar to the ISB but I only have experience with the ISB.

To have 2 leg 50amp you would need two units as the only ones I am familiar with are only built for one leg.

The ISB website lists a place where their products can be found in Mazatlan . . .

Av. Universidad #206 Loc. 126 Fracc. Alameda, Plaza Galerias Mazatlán. Mazatlán, Sinaloa, México. CP. 82123

Teléfono:
(669) 940-0840
(669) 132-3333

Web:
http://www.mazcomputacion.com.mx/

If they do not have the 4000 they can probably order one and have it in no time. Many stores do not stock items like this because they are relatively high cost and not in high demand in many areas - I think mainly not a lot of people know about them. ISB has distributors all over Mexico so almost any ferreteria or similar store can order them. The store listed above sounds more like a computer store so they may only have the ones made for computers and not whole house units. ISB does make a bunch of other products so stores they list on their website may not necessarily have all their products. But if you go to a ferreteria with all the info from their website to show the store they can probably order one. The 4000 can usually be found for between 3000 to 4000 pesos or between 200 to 250 US dollars. These are not normally items you walk in and pick up off the shelf.

To my knowledge the surge protectors to protect the entire RV can only be found in the US. Smaller RVs with limited power requirements may get by with smaller surge protectors but I don't know.

[Talleyho69]

Thanks for the info.

If our "fun" with Mercado Libre doesn't end soon, we'll pick up one in Mazatlan on our way north.

Did you see a 30 amp version?

[cross_country]

Briansue, I agree with what you have said concerning being protected from electrical power source. It really is hard to believe that RVer's here in Mexico, even when they are witness to the symptoms of what spikes will do, still will not part with the money for a good surge guard. It won't happen to me, it has never happened to me; and there goes another dometic or norcold to the garbage. Oh we have had it for quite a time. they don't get it.

I am located in San Fernando, Mazatlan where the power is off the wall just like any other park here with the possible exception of California which has been closed.

The reason my power stays within 4 volts is because I have a 50/1 Ecowise voltage regulator from Home Depot here in Maz for 7000 peso's.

the trouble with the eco wise is that no where do they explain how it works. Just says what it does; regulate power from 85 to 150 volts etc.

I went to electrical outlets (pun intended) found the sola but not the 4000, everything they showed us was well under. Hardware people told me to go to Home depot for a whole house voltage regulator.

the eco wise has been completely reliable and has supplied a constant voltage plus or minus 4 volts. I have no complaints, just wish it would take 2 hot wires instead of just one.That would allow me to use its full capacity of 50 amps. (2 legs)

[briansue]

Standard or not, 120V is not what you see on receptacles. It is standard 120V in both US and Canada. But you don't normally run your household devices on 120V, believe it or not

Now it gets silly - but nevermind.

In Mexico "standard" is 127 - and it can go high and it can go low. This will trip some surge protectors some of the time. To keep our protection from tripping we have an ISB which attempts to regulate voltage to 120 (the "standard" for most appliances and equipment). Sometimes it all works and sometimes it doesn't.

Many years ago the US Navy sent me to school for over 6 months to be an electronics technician - which started with all things electrical and went on from there. It was a long time ago and I never again worked in the field. But I do remember a lot of stuff and have worked with electricity and electronics as needed in my personal life for many years. We hear lots of people say 110 or 120 or 220 or 240 and it can get confusing. But whatever. The "Standard" in the US is 120 and 240 (and in some commercial applications it is 480) and that is what you should see when you plug into an RV park pedestal. If you do not you need to be aware that something is wrong. In Mexico you should see 127 and if you do not then something is wrong and you should pay attention.

I am sorry that not everyone agrees on the word "standard" but I verified my information with the world standards shown above. This is a pointless argument similar to so many others we find on this forum.

[Almot]

Standard or not, 120V is not what you see on receptacles. It is standard 120V in both US and Canada. But you don't normally run your household devices on 120V, believe it or not 🙂

[briansue]

I do not want to engage in an argument or play with semantics. The voltage standard in the US is 120. What your meter reads at your house or what your devices say has nothing to do with the standard. Lower voltage at your household receptacle could be due to many factors such as length of wire going to your final test point. Below is a website showing World Standards for electricity. Seems Canada is also 120. Mexico on the other hand is 127. The word is "standard".

http://www.worldstandards.eu/electricity/plug-voltage-by-country/

[Almot]

briansue wrote:

First - the standard is 120 - not 110

Not really. 120V is a "nominal" voltage. By the time it gets to your receptacle, it is usually 114-115 - at least where I live in Canada. Probably - in most other places as well. For this reason, household appliances are often tested, rated and labeled as "110V", rather than "120V". But I would be happy, feliz y contento, to have stable 120V from ISB - since this is what it does.

[briansue]

I have never seen the power monitor in the motor home read less than 116 or more than 120. usually 118 . steady, no up,no down. A friend of mine watched for a season. bought one this year. one week later more than 7 RV's lost micro waves, refrigerators boards of all descriptions etc. My friend did not lose anything. his unit placed in front of his surge protector stopped the spike, reset and went on working. His power stays at 114 for some reason. When measured the power here is usually 129 and higher, tripping surge protectors daily.

A couple of things here. Voltage seen on meters or monitors from one rig to another can vary depending on any number of reasons.
First - it is is different device and they can vary - I can use two different meters plugged into the same outlet and see different numbers. Good professional multi-meters probably won't do this.

There can also be variations from an analog meter to a digital meter. I can put an analog and digital next to each other and see different numbers.

Depending on where the meter is and what circuit it comes through could cause different readings. In our rig all our outlets come through our inverter. It is a modified sine wave - not a pure sine wave - this will cause a digital meter to read differently - on the same exact circuit an analog might read 120 while a digital might read 108. There are electrical/electronic reasons why a modified sine wave and pure sine wave will be seen differently on some meters - usually digital. There could a be other reasons for seeing different readings from one rig to another - even from one pedestal to another.

A surge protector should always be used because you never know when some weird juice is going to come down the line and fry some of your equipment. I have had lightning strikes near a stick house blow out all my TV equipment. A surge protector is cheaper than a new TV or stereo or fridge. All of these things have sensitive electronic components and the right zap will kill them. A surge protector is a line of defense that can save your equipment. Nothing but a surge protector will protect from a real spike.

I have tried to point out a number of times on this forum that there are many RV parks in Mexico that are not properly wired. They do not wire to code. There are mathematical formulas for wire size and distance wire can go before larger gauge is required. There are incoming circuit factors - size of transformer - size of wire from transformer to circuit panel - breaker size - number of outlets on a circuit - the list goes on and is long. If the RV park circuits are not adequate there can be lots of variations seen with incoming voltage to a rig. When a neighbor turns on or off their air conditioner for example you could see serious changes in voltage from high to low - but you would have to be watching the meter for that couple of seconds when the power fluctuates due to changes in requirements somewhere in that circuit.

We were recently in an RV park that had never had a large caravan before. Lots of big rigs. There were already quite a few other rigs in the RV park. The demand on the power supply caused first the meter box to catch on fire. That was repaired. A day or so later the main breaker burned up - to be replaced by a larger breaker. Now the wires going from the main out to the park are at risk as the larger breaker is not going to trip when demand goes up and this could mean the wire is the weakest link and is going to burn. These older parks - and even some newer parks - were not built to meet the demands of today's big rigs.

You may be lucky and be in a park that is properly wired - there aren't many of them. In the US inspections are required to check for proper wiring. In Mexico - not so much. Much of the wiring we see is not even done by electricians. The problems for those of us who RV to travel can be endless. Those who stay in one place all season may not see the same problems. But as we wander all over Mexico we see variations in problems and causes too numerous to mention. We always check for proper polarity and for proper ground. We use our voltage regulator and surge guard no matter where we go. I always test circuits before I hook up. Our experiences of having to replace expensive electronic components has taught us you can't be too careful.