Legalities regarding firearms for bear safety in wilderness?

westernrvparkowner wrote:

alaskan-rver wrote:
As a fellow ATVer, let me warn you that you are focusing on the wrong risk.

As a previous poster mentioned, the engine noise of an ATV will give bears plenty of warning that you are coming. As long as you stay relatively close to your ATV, and away from salmon streams and rivers during a run, you will probably never see a bear, even at a great distance.

Bear spray is more than adequate protection, and much less hassle taking it across provincial and international borders than firearms.

Risks you should be worrying about (because, unlike bears attacking ATVers, these do actually happen, and frequently):

Getting lost. Apart from a few mining roads, most ATV trails here are unmaintained hunting or recreational trails. Trail maps are usually either non-existent or out of date. Riding with someone who knows the area, and having a topographical GPS with descent maps, and HIGHLY encouraged. Hardly any ATV trails have cell phone access once you get a mile or two from the highway.

Getting stuck (in mud). Much of the terrain up here can be boggy/swampy. You will encounter mud holes--big ones...not just filled with dirty water, but also porridge-consistency bottomless muck. Invariably, these occur in areas without trees (so you don't have much in the way of convenient anchor points for your winch line). Ground clearance and mud-capable tires are a must. A winching anchor (like a boat anchor, or a several foot long piece of rebar and a sledge hammer to pound it in) can really save your day in instances like this, unless you are riding with a group who all have strong winches (and extra line).

Rock damage or obstructions. You'll do better if you have skid plates under your rig(s), and tires tough enough to withstand rock punctures (unfortunately, a weak point for many mud tires). Since our trails are unregulated, they are also used by off-road trucks, who can dig ruts far deeper than what an ATV can, as well as clear boulders we can't.

Water immersion. Almost any trail you ride will have stream or river crossings. Rivers move fast up here, and is always carving new channels. Miss "the shallow path" by a foot or two and you can unexpectedly find deep holes. Swamping CVTs (and occasionally even engines) is common up here. Raising your air intakes (such as with snorkels), sealing your CVT housing, and having a quick way to drain it, are all important modifications.

Given the low population density, unless you are riding at a popular area on a weekend, it could be hours or days before you encounter another rider to help you out of a jam. Make sure your party has ways to handle these on your own, as well as carrying some rudimentary survival gear should you have to unexpectedly spend the night on the trail, particularly if you are riding with just one machine.

Until you have ironclad protections against these, don't worry about the wildlife. More people get injured by moose than bears.

By far the most logical, well thought out, practical post on this issue. That is totally unacceptable on these forums. You really need to go someone else to post your knowledgeable, useful advice.

This is the place for people to tell you that a well placed shot from a BB gun will stop an enraged grizzly. All you need to do is be proficient with that firearm. I mean who can't hit the bullseye with their first shot at a charging grizzly knowing if you miss you are going to die a slow, painful, death? That's nothing compared to the pressure of hitting a stationary paper target.

Be careful western .....someone's feathers will get ruffled and the bb's will be headed in your direction. I get your position, sarcasm not withstanding.....point taken.

Lakeside

alaskan-rver wrote:
As a fellow ATVer, let me warn you that you are focusing on the wrong risk.

As a previous poster mentioned, the engine noise of an ATV will give bears plenty of warning that you are coming. As long as you stay relatively close to your ATV, and away from salmon streams and rivers during a run, you will probably never see a bear, even at a great distance.

Bear spray is more than adequate protection, and much less hassle taking it across provincial and international borders than firearms.

Risks you should be worrying about (because, unlike bears attacking ATVers, these do actually happen, and frequently):

Getting lost. Apart from a few mining roads, most ATV trails here are unmaintained hunting or recreational trails. Trail maps are usually either non-existent or out of date. Riding with someone who knows the area, and having a topographical GPS with descent maps, and HIGHLY encouraged. Hardly any ATV trails have cell phone access once you get a mile or two from the highway.

Getting stuck (in mud). Much of the terrain up here can be boggy/swampy. You will encounter mud holes--big ones...not just filled with dirty water, but also porridge-consistency bottomless muck. Invariably, these occur in areas without trees (so you don't have much in the way of convenient anchor points for your winch line). Ground clearance and mud-capable tires are a must. A winching anchor (like a boat anchor, or a several foot long piece of rebar and a sledge hammer to pound it in) can really save your day in instances like this, unless you are riding with a group who all have strong winches (and extra line).

Rock damage or obstructions. You'll do better if you have skid plates under your rig(s), and tires tough enough to withstand rock punctures (unfortunately, a weak point for many mud tires). Since our trails are unregulated, they are also used by off-road trucks, who can dig ruts far deeper than what an ATV can, as well as clear boulders we can't.

Water immersion. Almost any trail you ride will have stream or river crossings. Rivers move fast up here, and is always carving new channels. Miss "the shallow path" by a foot or two and you can unexpectedly find deep holes. Swamping CVTs (and occasionally even engines) is common up here. Raising your air intakes (such as with snorkels), sealing your CVT housing, and having a quick way to drain it, are all important modifications.

Given the low population density, unless you are riding at a popular area on a weekend, it could be hours or days before you encounter another rider to help you out of a jam. Make sure your party has ways to handle these on your own, as well as carrying some rudimentary survival gear should you have to unexpectedly spend the night on the trail, particularly if you are riding with just one machine.

Until you have ironclad protections against these, don't worry about the wildlife. More people get injured by moose than bears.

By far the most logical, well thought out, practical post on this issue. That is totally unacceptable on these forums. You really need to go someone else to post your knowledgeable, useful advice.

This is the place for people to tell you that a well placed shot from a BB gun will stop an enraged grizzly. All you need to do is be proficient with that firearm. I mean who can't hit the bullseye with their first shot at a charging grizzly knowing if you miss you are going to die a slow, painful, death? That's nothing compared to the pressure of hitting a stationary paper target.

Here in the east, we can cross bear spray provided it is in a larger format and identified as bear spray. What we cannot cross are the small pocket/purse size pepper sprays.

Bear spray while hiking is a good plan right. Traveling from Skagway into Canada, I am Canadian, I was asked if I had bear spray. If you have it which is a good idea in that area, they will take it away as considered restricted, go figure. So up the road at Carcross one can replace it if confiscated. Again go figure.

Now if hiking the Chilkoot trail, will bearspray be ceased crossing into Canada?

Thanks everyone for their replies. We chose to not take any firearms, and all went well. Saw no bears, other than on the side of the highway occasionally. Had a good trip, and hope to do it again one day! Thank you!

Powerstroke2000 wrote:
Wow, thanks so much everyone for your input...much appreciate....and if any of you have good info on good area's to ride in the Yukon or Alaska, that would be appreciated as well. Will be checking out 'clubs' in the area as well in my searching.

What driving route(s) do you intend to take, and when will you be there? What kind of riding do you like (dirt roads, technical, vistas, etc.)?

Wow, thanks so much everyone for your input...much appreciated! No problem now that I know, we'll just take bear spray! Yes, I'm aware of things to watch for while ATVing, as I've been doing so for many years, plus we'll have a party of four riding on this trip. Each of us carries a GPS as well, which leaves a 'bread crumb' trail of where you've gone, and it works well to just return via the same trail...if not, the GPS gives us the ability to leave way points along the way. All Four quads have winches...of which 4 years ago this same 'four' of us rode in about 50 miles west...in off the Alaska highway, pulling trailers with all the gear needed for a 2 week trip. We encountered some large mud holes indeed, of which you have no idea how deep it is, so we had to get a stick to 'dip' the hole to see how deep it was. We all have mud (aftermarket) tires, and take turns making sure each rider can get through, so you never encounter everyone getting stuck...as we've ridden long enough to know that it has to be 'safety first'. I'll mention as well that I've hunted for over 30 years in Northern B.C., always for game meat only, but we certainly have seen HUGE Grizzly tracks on the trails as well. To tell the truth this past year has been the worst we've seen for 'predators'....Grizzly and wolves mainly. That is ALL we saw for a week and a half in the north country, but finally where able to take a little meat home for the freezer thankfully.
I usually carry a Mossberg with 18" barrel, with slugs and a single SSG shot as a first shot. It would never be used unless a life where in peril of course, as the bears have even more rights than WE do to be there for sure! I've done a lot of reading on the topic of bears and some of the stories going WAY back on their ferocity, so I'm well aware one doesn't have a lot of time if they decide to head in your direction. I'll also add that I belong to an ATV Club, where we've come across a Cinnamon (black bear) as a group of quad riders, and he/she stayed about 10 yards away, but wasn't interested in moving any further away....so we retreated and went back from the way we came....so what I'm saying is that they not always will move off by the sound of quads.

Thanks again for the information....and if any of you have good info on good area's to ride in the Yukon or Alaska, that would be appreciated as well. Will be checking out 'clubs' in the area as well in my searching.

While I have a .375 with express sights that I prefer, either a shotgun or rifle matched with competence in its use is a better bear deterrent than any handgun. One needs to be pretty darn competent with a rifle, slightly less so with a shotgun, and incredibly competent with a handgun to deter a bear with bad intentions.

IMNSHO, unless one has put in the requisite practice (up to 5x that required with a long gun) to get a high degree of competence with a handgun, there's no real point in taking one. Unless one can (in my view in a second or less) take the handgun from leather and get 4 shots in a pieplate at 25 yards, one should not rely on that handgun for bear protection. Things have a way of just going wrong with bears involved (if the bear has a bad attitude) that simply can't be duplicated on the shooting range.

....however, as mentioned, its really not that hard to avoid bears if one tries to do so.

Every study ever done has shown a 12 gauge with slugs to be the best close range bear gun. Properly slung a shotgun is no more hassle than a sidearm and can be brought to bear more quickly. A plan is best. In all my Alaska, BC trompings I've only seen a handful of bears when I wasn't looking for them specifically and only one of those caused any problem at all.

Horsedoc wrote:
"40 caliber magnum ss pistol"

What the heck is this?

I believe that he is referring to a 40 caliber magnum, stainless steel (ss), pistol which would be a very poor choice when confronted by an angry bear. Much more likely to p*$$ him off then incapacitate. {Hard to imagine a worse scenario than an angry and wounded bear.} :S

If you have any hope of stopping a charging bear you had better have at least a 44 Magnum with the appropriate load, the 305 grain Buffalo Bore slugs come to mind.

A much better plan (you do have a plan when bear country, right?), would be to avoid them at all costs. Properly store your food, safely travel (as in loudly), through their turf and discreetly withdraw at the first sign of bear in the area.

:C