Ontario drivers licence and CVOR requirements

[TimnJo]

I was having a discussion with a truck driver friend who insisted that my new truck, a 2018 Silverado 3500 Double Cab dually with the diesel motor and 13,025 lbs. (5,908-kg) GVWR, would require me to have the yellow CVOR sticker and I would have to upgrade my licence to a "D".
I found this info that sheds some light:

1. https://drivetest.ca/licences/licences-overview.html?language_id=1

2. http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/trucks/commercial-vehicle-operators-registration.shtml

Here's the relevant text from each site:

1. G Any car, van, or small truck (or combination of vehicle and towed vehicle up to 11,000 kg, provided the towed vehicle is not over 4,600 kg), but that is not a motorcycle or motor-assisted bicycle, a bus carrying passengers, or an ambulance in the course of providing ambulance service (as defined in the Ambulance Act). A recreational vehicle towed by a pick-up truck may exceed 4,600 kg.

2. Operators that don't need a CVOR certificate
Carriers that operate certain types of vehicles do not need a CVOR certificate. These vehicles include:
pickup trucks that:
• have a manufacturer's gross vehicle weight rating of 6,000 kg (13,227 lb)
• are being used for personal purposes without compensation
• are fitted with either the original, unmodified box installed by the manufacturer, or an unmodified replacement box that duplicates the one installed by the manufacturer
• are not carrying or towing a trailer carrying commercial cargo or tools, or equipment of any type normally used for commercial purposes

So I will be OK with my regular "G" class licence and no yellow sticker.

TIm

[JaxDad]

shum02 wrote:
BTW just the other day I was waved through a Mississauga truck inspection set up on Derry and 427 in my F350 cause, yea, I ain't commercial.

Nobody is saying a pickup needs a CVOR, in fact quite the opposite.

However the annual yellow Safety Inspection, which has NOTHING to do with a CVOR is required by nearly every pickup, especially if it tows a trailer.

As long as you have a nice fresh bright yellow sticker clearly visible on the truck and you’re unladen, yes, in a lot of cases they will just flag you on past. We get the same thing on occasion.

BTW, ‘you’ aren’t commercial, but your truck certainly IS a commercial vehicle.

[JaxDad]

TimnJo wrote:
So your FIL had to get an inspection and a yellow sticker?

No, that’s the ridiculous part of it, our F150 needs a sticker, the FL is licensed as a motorhome, it has no RGVWR, it is a “passenger vehicle” now.

Ditto other instances, if your chassis is a Suburban it can be licensed as a passenger vehicle, the same chassis as a pickup is a commercial vehicle. Go figure.

[shum02]

TimnJo wrote:

This means that almost everybody towing an RV isn't in compliance, if we assume that a pickup towing an RV is considered a commercial vehicle, (as these regulations only appear in that part of the website).

So your FIL had to get an inspection and a yellow sticker?

Yup you got it! And yea, I knew this would go the way it has.

Here is a quote from the MTO's FAQ's page

The Highway Traffic Act considers all pickup trucks to be commercial motor vehicles, but a pickup truck only needs a Commercial Vehicle Operator's Registration (CVOR) certificate if it has an actual or registered gross weight of more than 4,500 kg.
A personal-use pickup truck means a pickup truck that:
is being used for personal purposes without compensation
has a manufacturer's gross vehicle weight rating of 6,000 kg (13,227 lb) or less(this contradicts the first part!), and is fitted with either:
the original box that was installed by the manufacturer, which has not been modified, or
a replacement box that duplicates the one that was installed by the manufacturer and has not been modified
is not carrying or towing a trailer carrying commercial cargo or tools or equipment of a type normally used for commercial purposes


Now you can take that and interpret it any way you want but I will also say that there is all kinds of contradictions in the MTO's "rules" regarding pickups and RV's(buses and huge 5th wheels come to mind). Take it for what you want, believe what you want, pay them what you want. I have yet to see of hear of anyone getting nicked by them who was exclusively towing or carrying for personal use. Anything else is internet lore.

BTW just the other day I was waved through a Mississauga truck inspection set up on Derry and 427 in my F350 cause, yea, I ain't commercial.

[TimnJo]

Hi JaxDad,

You're quite correct about the annual inspections, here's the part I missed, from the MTO website:
http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/trucks/commercial-vehicle-safety-requirements.shtml

Here's the relevant text, I highlighted some parts:

"Annual and semi-annual inspections

An annual inspection is valid for 12 months.
Trucks, trailers and converter dollies, alone or in combination, with a total gross weight, registered gross weight or manufacturer's gross vehicle weight rating of more than 4,500 kg require an annual inspection.
Total gross weight: the weight transmitted to the highway by the truck and/or trailer - includes the driver, passenger, fuel, equipment, tools, cargo, etc. carried by the truck and/or trailer."

This means that almost everybody towing an RV isn't in compliance, if we assume that a pickup towing an RV is considered a commercial vehicle, (as these regulations only appear in that part of the website).

So your FIL had to get an inspection and a yellow sticker?

[JaxDad]

TimnJo wrote:
I don't want to get in a flame war here JaxDad but you're confusing Gross Vehicle Weight Rating and Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating.
That half ton in your example is well below the 6,000 Kg GVWR, even though it's Combined weight may be above, the legislation is clear about that distinction, so no annual inspection, nor yellow sticker, is required.

The wording in the actual legislation is contradictory in the letter of the law - several places RVs are given exemptions from any Commercial requirements, so I say the spirit of the law is to give the average RV owner a break from the arduous inspection and logging requirements of a commercial operator.
Getting anyone from MTO to actually address this though I would think would be tough.

Tim

No problem Tim, were discussing not flaming, your reply was polite and courteous.

I think you also are confusing two totally separate requirements / issues.

1) Commercial vehicles with a GVWR of 4,500 kg, or under that, but hooked to a trailer, but NOT an RV, that puts them over 4,500 Combined GVWR require an Annual Safety Inspection, aka ‘yellow sticker’. This has NOTHING to do with a CVOR.

2) A CVOR is not required by commercial vehicles used strictly for personal use which has a factory box and is under 6,000 kg GVWR. A CVOR is kind of like a second parallel system of demerit points, strictly for commercial vehicles, fleet owners and drivers.

There are some weird exemptions, as mentioned above, it’s easy to relicense a Class 8 truck (tractor trailer) as a “motorhome” at which it becomes a “passenger vehicle” with no registered weight required and thus exempt from the need for an Annual Safety Inspection. We have a Freightliner which is licensed that way, it does not require a sticker, but our F150 does. Go figure.

As mentioned above, the big problem is that very few people understand that their pickup is a “commercial vehicle” despite being strictly ‘personal use’.

[hone_eagle]

Its ironic that my 'motorhome' which looks exactly like a commercial truck is not , so no yellow sticker , cheaper insurance rate .you would think I would constantly have to explain "why did you blow by my scale?"
or "why did you bypass the inspection station"?
But I have never had to explain on the side of the road ,in fact I had to corral a MTO officer during my school bus inspection 'I have my truck inspected every year should I display the sticker?
answer was no it would only confuse the issue, we are under staffed so don't waste our time.

[TimnJo]

I don't want to get in a flame war here JaxDad but you're confusing Gross Vehicle Weight Rating and Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating.
That half ton in your example is well below the 6,000 Kg GVWR, even though it's Combined weight may be above, the legislation is clear about that distinction, so no annual inspection, nor yellow sticker, is required.

The wording in the actual legislation is contradictory in the letter of the law - several places RVs are given exemptions from any Commercial requirements, so I say the spirit of the law is to give the average RV owner a break from the arduous inspection and logging requirements of a commercial operator.
Getting anyone from MTO to actually address this though I would think would be tough.

Tim

[JaxDad]

shum02 wrote:

JaxDad wrote:
Wow, a *bunch* of incorrect info here!



It does NOT exempt you from needing an Annual Safety Inspection. That is required when your truck, trailer, or both combined, have a GVWR or actual weight exceeding 4,500kg or 9,900 pounds. A LOT of folks don’t understand this until it’s too late. For example, a typical 1/2 ton with a 7,200 GVWR pulling a single axle box trailer with a 3,500 pound GVWR means you’re at 10,700 combined GVWR and need an annual Safety for BOTH.

If the MTO/OPP pulled over ever 1/2 ton truck on a long weekend pulling a RV and weighed them they'd never ever ever have time to do commercial and the courts would be plugged.

Have mine registered for 4k kgs. That's more than I need when I'm sitting in it with a full tank of fuel.

If you're not pulling ANY kind of commercial, ONLY your RV, use you're truck only as a passenger vehicle and you're under 11K kg's GCVWR you do not need a yellow sticker.

I’m not quite sure where you got those ideas, but they’re wrong. The whole point of those safety blitzes are education and that is certainly what they do.

The ‘commercial’ idea is just plain wrong too, your truck IS a commercial vehicle, even if your using it purely for ‘passenger’ use.

The requirement for a yellow safety inspection sticker is not required IF, and ONLY, if the truck has a GVWR on the truck is under 4,500kg. The RV exemption only covers the RV itself, so if the truck is under 4,500kg the RV does not bump it over that limit, but if the truck is over 4,500kg GVWR by itself it still needs a safety inspection.

[shum02]

JaxDad wrote:
Wow, a *bunch* of incorrect info here!



It does NOT exempt you from needing an Annual Safety Inspection. That is required when your truck, trailer, or both combined, have a GVWR or actual weight exceeding 4,500kg or 9,900 pounds. A LOT of folks don’t understand this until it’s too late. For example, a typical 1/2 ton with a 7,200 GVWR pulling a single axle box trailer with a 3,500 pound GVWR means you’re at 10,700 combined GVWR and need an annual Safety for BOTH.

If the MTO/OPP pulled over ever 1/2 ton truck on a long weekend pulling a RV and weighed them they'd never ever ever have time to do commercial and the courts would be plugged.

Have mine registered for 4k kgs. That's more than I need when I'm sitting in it with a full tank of fuel.

If you're not pulling ANY kind of commercial, ONLY your RV, use you're truck only as a passenger vehicle and you're under 11K kg's GCVWR you do not need a yellow sticker.

[hone_eagle]

Pipe the 'motorhome' is fine ,put a new muffler on in florida old one rotted ,must be sitting too much.
cheap here $71.00.
Interesting about the A-R and dropping it ,seems to fluctuate back and forth and from office to office .A straight answer to a rare question is been impossible because of the private contractor(service ontario) between us and the MTO.
I drive my 'motorhome' on a B with a Z endosment ,really throws them for a loop and with the A-R coming and going ....... well no joy there.
If stopped I will show the officer several conflicting E mails from the MTO itself.
now off to read jaxdad sigh

[JaxDad]

Wow, a *bunch* of incorrect info here!

First off, a CVOR (Commercial Vehicle Operator Registration) is a completely different creature than the yellow Annual Commercial Safety Inspection sticker. But the section quoted does indeed exempt you from needing a CVOR.

It does NOT exempt you from needing an Annual Safety Inspection. That is required when your truck, trailer, or both combined, have a GVWR or actual weight exceeding 4,500kg or 9,900 pounds. A LOT of folks don’t understand this until it’s too late. For example, a typical 1/2 ton with a 7,200 GVWR pulling a single axle box trailer with a 3,500 pound GVWR means you’re at 10,700 combined GVWR and need an annual Safety for BOTH.

my own FIL got pinched on this one, he has an Avalanche with blue (custom) plates and got stopped in a safety blitz while pulling an (empty) box trailer. Luckily he got off with an education, he wouldn’t listen to my warnings, and a warning to get it done and present both the station within 5 days to prove he was in compliance.

A lot of folks mistakenly believe they have blue plates, they’re all good. Wrong. Look at the top margin of the vehicle ownership. If it says “PAS - FIT” you have a passenger vehicle, if however it says “COM - FIT” you are driving a commercial vehicle, period. The colour of the plate means nothing when it comes to custom plates, you can put them on a tractor-trailer.

As was mentioned, a ‘regular’ G license let’s you tow a trailer up to 4,600 kg or drive a vehicle up to 11,0p0 kg, beyond that you need an A/R license. Funny quirk in that most people don’t know, with a G license you can double tow in Ontario, I.E. fishing boat behind a 5’er, but once you get an A/R license you are no longer allowed to do that. Strange!

[Pipeman]

I just got my sticker renewed along with my driver's license. Every time I go into that office, their computer tells them I need a CVOR. I tell them I don't. I always end up talking to the boss. My ownership tells them I am registered at 11,000 kilos because that's where I have it to cover the weight on the roads by both truck and trailer.I usually drop it at the end of October and up it in May but this time I didn't drop it. I tell them I am not commercial. I have a piece of paper that tells me what to do and it's from the MOT. If your vehicle's GVWR is less than 6000 kilos you are exempt. I also dropped down to a class g license from a d, because of my age. They made me get an AR then dropped it the next year. I also had to get an emissions test done on my 1 ton dually for $122. $90 dollars for my license and $600 and something for the sticker because of my weight rating of 11000 kilos. I also have blue lettered plates that are personalized that should tell them I'm not commercial. Just a big money grab by the govt...again..IMHO. I was told by the MOT that it would be a good idea to get annuals done on the truck and I have done so for a few years now. That's my story Ralf and I'm sticking to it. Hiow's that big motorhome of your doing???

[hone_eagle]

after 4500 kg t(railer) I think you need a A-R , that is a 'A' Restricted ,yellow sticker as well ,I see many pick-ups now with it (annual) kicks in at about your weight

no CVOR as you are not commercial