Question about RV'ing in South America

[VeeinTO]

Hello folks,

I am planning to take a 38' Class A diesel pusher to South America. Since I have seen much of the US and Canada, I will be shipping this RV on a ro-ro from Halifax to Caracas.

The plan takes me from Venezuela >Colombia >Ecuador >Peru >Bolivia >Chile >Argentina >Uruguay > Brazil >Suriname >Guyana >Venezuela.

So the question is - are the roads passable for a Class A? I have seen some pics with mud pits the size of a farm! I have read some blogs but they all have 4x4s or smaller Class B's and C's.

I noticed that there are not a lot of campgrounds, but that is okay with us. The only issue is safety and security when we are parked. Is it safe?

Thanks in advance for all your responses.

V

[tony_lee]

silversand wrote:

Tony Lee wrote:
Lots of traps in this one too. For instance, can't buy an Argentinian registered vehicle in Argentina and expect to be able to get it out of the country.

VERY good point! This could make inter-country travel with a rented RV in South America nary impossible, or extremely inconvenient (unless the rental Co. has border-point agency representatives: probably not).

rented is different. For instance Andean rentals in BA - where my vehicle is stored - have a permanent arrangement with customs to allow their rentals into Chile and back and rentals in Chile have similar arrangements - but may not apply between other pairs of countries.

[silversand]

Tony Lee wrote:
Lots of traps in this one too. For instance, can't buy an Argentinian registered vehicle in Argentina and expect to be able to get it out of the country.

VERY good point! This could make inter-country travel with a rented RV in South America nary impossible, or extremely inconvenient (unless the rental Co. has border-point agency representatives: probably not).

[tony_lee]

The OP could also consider buying (or, renting?) an RV in South America & sellng on departure (I have seen several used Unimog-style RVs for sale throughout South America, so it wouldn't be a stretch to infer standard RVs being sold as used in South America, too ? Shipping a 30+ foot bus to South America from North America (say, Miami) won't be an inexpensive proposition ($9,000 to $17,000 each way??).

Lots of traps in this one too. For instance, can't buy an Argentinian registered vehicle in Argentina and expect to be able to get it out of the country. Transfer of ownership of a foreign-registered vehicle to another foreigner is technically illegal in many countries, and difficult to get around as well in many countries. Yes, everyone knows someone who has done it, but first hand accounts are thin on the ground.
Towing a toad?? That might provide corrupt police manning roadblocks with some interesting ways of adding to their low pay packets. Fire extinguishers, safety triangles, reflectors, etc etc are subject to random interpretation of the rules so towing will be a god-send for them,

[silversand]

He suggested strengthening the chassis with extra cross members and inner C channel bars in some spots. This will help stabilize the coach by reducing twisting/torquing.

Reading on C channel truck framing, this shape appears to offer the worst frame twisting resistance. Virtually every truck I see on the market is going (or, has gone) to hydroformed boxed framing front to rear (a much stiffer (stronger?) frame it appears. However, I am NOT a structural engineer. If your RV dealer knows of a reputable commercial truck upfitter, I would visit this upfitter (with your rig present) and discuss this possibility in great detail.

You probable have something like a "Workhorse" motorhome frame under your Class A ? If so, I would contact the frame manufacturer (Workhorse/Navistar) and discuss the hardening with them. This is their website: here-->

[silversand]

if you have a truck camper or a B plus rv with dually and switch to the single there is no longer an issue of where you drive in Mexico in terms of city or crossing bridges, right?

Gtla: when I do a search for "super singles", or supersingles + mexico, the only return is: mexican girls, beautiful mexican girls, meet mexican girls, mexican blonde super singles

....your guess is as good as mine :B

....would Mexican officials even bat an eyelash at a Class C (or B+) crossing the border and driving on their roads & bridges with a single rear tire arrangement? How would they know if your RV originally came equipped with dual rear wheels? _shrug_?

The OP could also consider buying (or, renting?) an RV in South America & sellng on departure (I have seen several used Unimog-style RVs for sale throughout South America, so it wouldn't be a stretch to infer standard RVs being sold as used in South America, too ? Shipping a 30+ foot bus to South America from North America (say, Miami) won't be an inexpensive proposition ($9,000 to $17,000 each way??).

[qtla9111]

silversand wrote:

I am not too afraid of tires. I will start with a new set. Anything else?

...you may want to consider what are called "super singles" as replacement tires/wheels on your rig (converting the rear dually tire set-up, if you have these, will reduce your potential for rocks getting caught between the dually tires, causing flat(s) or catastrophic tire failure). There is a nice Michelin super single called X one XDN2 tire (have a look here--> or, Goodyear G392 SSD DURASEAL (with tread puncture auto-sealing technology); or ).

Here's a guy (on RVnet) who actually converted his Itasca Horizon 39QD to rear super singles, with no apparent regrets: Link--> . And, this is his Thread discussing the details on swapping for super singles on his motorhome, here-->

....if you cut through all the myth and scare-mongering about super singles (the myths and scare mongering remind me of the discussions I read about in history books describing ancient debates vis flat Earth ~ spherical Earth!), this may be an interesting way for you to go. Anyhow, do your own due diligence !

S-

So if you have a truck camper or a B plus rv with dually and switch to the single there is no longer an issue of where you drive in Mexico in terms of city or crossing bridges, right?

[Tequila]

If you are thinking diesel remember ULSD is not available in many countries. Assumed you motorhome is mid 2007+. you can get away with 10 tankfuls, but with much more you will end up with a clogged particle filter unless you manage to get it bypassed before you go..

[VeeinTO]

Thanks again for the responses. The cost of the Unimogs is not an issue, the size is also not an issue. The issue is that they are not comfortable, as a driver and as a passenger. They have no / limited access to the living quarters when you are on the road. They are built to off-road. We don't intend to do that. For example, the used Unimog (Tony Lee's post) will end up being a very good deal. The wear and tear, shipping, mods and possible damage to my Class A will cost more.

Thanks Silversand RE: SuperSingles. I had no idea of this option. I will definitely investigate that option. Replacements would be a concern but not insurmountable. We expect to have some breakdowns. We expect at some point to have parts shipped from Canada / US. So we are stuck somewhere for some time while the rig gets patched - so what?

I was talking with my dealer and spitballing the idea of the trip. He suggested strengthening the chassis with extra cross members and inner C channel bars in some spots. This will help stabilize the coach by reducing twisting/torquing. Worth it?

V

[silversand]

I am not too afraid of tires. I will start with a new set. Anything else?

...you may want to consider what are called "super singles" as replacement tires/wheels on your rig (converting the rear dually tire set-up, if you have these, will reduce your potential for rocks getting caught between the dually tires, causing flat(s) or catastrophic tire failure). There is a nice Michelin super single called X one XDN2 tire (have a look here--> or, Goodyear G392 SSD DURASEAL (with tread puncture auto-sealing technology); or ).

Here's a guy (on RVnet) who actually converted his Itasca Horizon 39QD to rear super singles, with no apparent regrets: Link--> . And, this is his Thread discussing the details on swapping for super singles on his motorhome, here-->

....if you cut through all the myth and scare-mongering about super singles (the myths and scare mongering remind me of the discussions I read about in history books describing ancient debates vis flat Earth ~ spherical Earth!), this may be an interesting way for you to go. Anyhow, do your own due diligence !

S-

[silversand]

At this point in my life, a Unimog type unit will not work for me. My kidneys cannot take the beating. Having read some comments here, I will "ruggedize" the unit to a degree. The unit has a CAT engine (CAT service available everywhere) and Allison transmission. So far, I think HDuty shocks, oil and tranny coolers, re-routing the air intakes, and computer (ECM) upgrade are in order...

OP: I think that you are on the right track, moving towards hardening your existing rig. It appears obvious that you will not compromise living unit size and amenities of your Class A, and as I carefully outlined in my earlier extensive list of extreme expedition RVs in my earlier Post, commissioning such a vehicle in the size you have currently, would mean a truck with at least 3 axles to accept a 30+ foot living unit, at a cost in the $1.2 to $2+ million range (for a new unit).

My critic (Charlie) is passionate about the Unimog RV genre vehicles, but as the OP has written, he isn't willing to compromise on what would be tantamount to a U500 sized truck (a Volkswagen-sized expedition truck {the base price for truck alone is in the $110,000 range, new) in the grand scheme of things!) with a pop-up camper attached to the chassis (or, what would constitute a living unit so small, it would perhaps offer only 20% of the living space that the OP currently enjoys; that cramped compromise he would loath I'll bet).

It would be very interesting to Post here how the hardening of your Class A Proceeds!

Now, to my critic:

Who would buy a $1 million, $2 million, 3 million extreme expedition RV? The market globally is potential huge (relatively speaking)!
In Switzerland alone, there WERE 283,000 households with a net worth more than $1 million (that statistic was 5 years ago; today, it is probably 350,000!). Among those resident families, 44% of them share the bulk of the entire country's wealth (that means 124,520 of those households could afford to buy 5 to 12 of those $2 million + 3 axle expedition vehicles EACH, and not even see a blip on their personal balance sheets. Let's say that the global market for these supposedly "...oil Sheikh affordable only..." extreme vehicles I calculate to be potentially 0.1% of the estimated 12,000,000 global multimillionaires in 2013 (I'm not even including the potential from the 1426 global billionaires in my figure!) is a staggering 12,000 likely/potential buyers. There are potentially hundreds of thousands of prospective buyers of lower cost small-scale used Unimog truck/camper combos Globally. There are tens of thousands of potential buyers of mid-sized Action Mobile brand truck/camper combos globally. There are perhaps 10,000,000+ owners of traditional RVs Globally with an initial purchase value of $100,000 or less (my estimation). IMO, the marketing effort done by the many manufacturers of Unimog-genre trucks upfitted to extreme overland RVs is pathetically lacking! Wealthy individuals are typically (statistically) in far better health than someone just getting by (like the middle class), and are very active into their 80s+, so inferring, age cohort in this case would have little to do with not being able to enjoy such a way of life.

That's all I have to say on the subject of this genre of RV, as the OP has clearly stated that he will be hardening his existing Class A; this hardening endeavor I remain highly interested in following 🙂

[Turtle-Toad]

Go for it! There was a member of this forum back a few year (2005, I think) that got together a group of 5 RV's from here to travel down to the southern tip of Argentina and back, making a complete loop around the contenant and back. I was supposed to be one of those RV's but had mechanical problems before we left.

They spent about 18 months doing the trip and it was a complete success. The founding member was the wagonmaster and drove a 40' Class A. He also had his family with him, including a couple of home-schooled kids.

They did have to ship their vehicles around the Darian Gap, in both directions.

[m37charlie]

silversand wrote:

I cannot believe the disinformation I read about Unimogs, not the least tire prices.
And "prices in the millions" for the vehicles - also a gross exaggeration.

Reference:

1) Global Expedition Vehicles (GXV): you can get a GXV but not for cheap. The most extreme and luxurious lifting roof model, the Patagonia, sells for more than $500,000 (like $600,000+ here-->).

2) Globecruiser expedition vehicle, MAN TGA 6×6 platform, 783ci turbodiesel, $700,000 +++).

The above are the cheap extreme RVs, and not nearly the same size/interior space if you want to A/B size vs. amenities vis the OP's Class A

3) Action Mobil Desert Challenger (more in line with size/amenities of the OP's Class A): MAN-KAT military chassis (HX high mobility truck system chassis), all-wheel drive; starting at $1.8million US +++++).

* the above comes in a "Special" model, with more amenities that will go into the $2.5 million + range.

4) the smaller 3 axle units (probably way too small for the OP, because the OP is apparently used to a 30+ foot living unit, with his Class A), at substantially less expensive (between $1 million and $1.4 million): Atacama XXL; the Temet XXL; the Globe Cruiser 7100;etc; Trans Kalahari; etc; etc; etc; etc; etc....ad infinitum $1 million +

Now, tires:

You could buy some old and/or used (stale-dated) military G177, or 12R 22.5, or similar tires on E-Bay for $100 ~ $300 per tire. Or, you can spend $800 to $1300+ each for new. In the OP's case, the larger 6x6 extreme or 3x RV would use the Michelin XZL 395/85R20 46" tires, at $1200 to $1500 each (fore sale prices on E-Bay).

A out and out lie


The reality is, one could buy an Unmog U500 chassis new for ~$90,000 (and buld your own living unit), or buy an old MAN-KAT military truck chassis from places like Vermont Unimog, starting at $33,000 (up to $90,000+), and rebuild the engine, axles and truck systems and build a "living unit" for $40,000 yourself, but not many would go that way (life's too short). But the reality is: an extreme RV the same size and amenitied the same as the OP's Class A will cost WELL in excess of $1.2 million!

I hope this clarifies the entire gamut of costs for extreme RV purchase for my critic?

A look at the Unicat site will reveal that virtually nobody owns the million (($1-2M, not "multimillions") rigs except arab oil sheikhs who sell them after tiring of their toys after 2-3 yrs. Vehicles like mine (4.8m camper on U500 chassis) are cheaper, lighter, more maneuverable, and much shorter. No it is not like a big Class A inside. One has to make SOME compromises in life.
Isn't $13-1800 for a dealer new tire kind of far from $3000? I obtained factory fresh brand new 395s with NO aging signs, dated 2010 a year ago from a "surplus dealer" for $400 each.

Charlie

[VeeinTO]

Thank you, one and all for your contributions to this discussion. I had been out of internet range for a few days and I came back to a lively chat.

First, I think I should mention that I will be towing a Jeep 4x4 for the hard to reach sites. Also, much of my trip is on a city to city basis. I checked the links - Thanks again - wonderful info.I had gone through the dutch duo blogs earlier and liked the maglander blog as well. I go off the beaten path (in the Jeep) if it is a day trip from where I am or on route.

Second, I don't underestimate the difficulty of this trip. I have had experience travelling overland from Eygpt to South Africa in one of those unimog expeditions. At this point in my life, a Unimog type unit will not work for me. My kidneys cannot take the beating. Having read some comments here, I will "ruggedize" the unit to a degree. The unit has a CAT engine (CAT service available everywhere) and Allison transmission. So far, I think HDuty shocks, oil and tranny coolers, re-routing the air intakes, and computer (ECM) upgrade are in order. I am not too afraid of tires. I will start with a new set. Anything else?

Finally, security. I am still not sure about this aspect of the trip. My nature is to believe in "goodness" of fellow humans. Maybe i am blinded but reading the blogs, i do not see any encounters that grievously threatened anybody. Anybody agree or disagree?

V

[qtla9111]

Monaco Montclair wrote:
This much I do know,my bro lives on the other side of Haiti,the dr. Never would I even think of doing that. Haveing been there twice. Anything out side the good old USA,chances are it might be a third world country. And the houses have bars across the windows, and not for decorations.in the USA u have rites, not in third world country's .and don't forget your passport, in case of a riot, the us embassy (by us law)has to let u in. If u can make it there. I just heard some of those places are opening back up, so u maybe in luck. Wow not me , I ll make another trip around the good old USA .in the good old USA it's all , happy-camping

Your answer on bars on the windows is way off. Sure they are for security, but did you know because of that very very few Mexican homeowners at all economic levels carry home insurance? Yes, it does exist and I have a homeowners policy. It cost me 120 dollars a year for full coverage and it works. My home was flooded and the foundation affected. The insurance company sent an adjuster, and a check arrived 10 days later. House fires are few and far between in concrete houses, so they are safe. What does your home insurance policy cost?

Check the FBI website In 2011, the rate of property crime was estimated at 2909 per 100,000 inhabitants. In 28 years, four neighborhoods and four houses I have never suffered a property crime and I don't live in an ex-pat gated community.

Based on the facts, maybe you should consider bars on "your" windows.