Lo siento, no hablo español

[TomG2]

I listed my RV on the McAllen, Texas Craigslist but left off the above words. Three calls today and all hung up when I could not reply to their questions in Spanish. I really don't know, and won't know, if they were serious shoppers or not. I am not complaining, that is just the way of the world in the Rio Grande Valley of Texas.

[John___Angela]

John&Joey wrote:
You should also see the US cemetery in France (Paris is such a small subset of the real country.) That cemetery is actually US soil given to us by the French people so that our soldiers could be buried on American soil. It is treated with great respect and is immaculate.

Morocco may be an interesting place, but one where the US may be targeted by a small subgroup of people. Canadians seem to have avoided this stigma until very recently.

As someone once told me "everybody loves Canadians" you may have an easier time of traveling then if you had a US Flag on your backpack. The last trip where we were "out there" was Greece (it's all Greek to me.) We've had a long history of friendship with Greece, but I was hard pressed at times to spot it.


What I always find amazing is when we travel people know we're American, but as soon as we step off the plane in US Customs everyone now looks like an American to me, as I to them.

We are a melting pot of the world, and have stood united for over two centuries. As soon as we start to carve out segments, we will lose what has kept us together(IMO.) Familiarity breeds distinction.

Really a topic for around a campfire with a beverage, until we really got into it about gun control :B. Yes, gun control is using two hands :W

Yes Pawatt, I am now officially off topic, sorry 'bout that.

We were kinda rushed through France as we had to meet up with folks in Spain. We spent about a week there in a few different towns including paris. Our next trip we are headed for the west coast to see the battlefields etc. It will have to wait a couple years due to budget and time etc.

Ok, I know this is way off topic but everyone has a moment when travelling in a different culture that kinda feels like an Oh wow moment where the world feels a little smaller. This was one of those moments for us. I wanted to put up the picture of the American serviceman graves tambien but I don't have it uploaded to the web yet. Here is a group of 4 graves of three Royal Airforce and one Royal Canadian Airforce serviceman. A result of a plane crash in World war two. Angela and I spent 22 years in the Canadian Air Force so this is special for us. Thanks to the original poster for the stray of topic.



Here we are looking out on the city with American friends. Listening to the call to prayer during ramadan up here was an amazing experience.



Angela looking very stylish in a jihab.



We stayed in a 14th century house/hotel in the middle of the Casbah.



In this city you will hear half a dozen languages spoken in your first hour there. Absolutely amazing city and as I said, for an American, if you are on that side of the pond take the 30 minute fast fairy ride from spain and check it out.



Again, sorry to the original poster for the deviation. I'm bad for that. Anyone who knows us knows we are passionate about language history and culture. Its an amazing world.

[John_Joey]

You should also see the US cemetery in France (Paris is such a small subset of the real country.) That cemetery is actually US soil given to us by the French people so that our soldiers could be buried on American soil. It is treated with great respect and is immaculate.

Morocco may be an interesting place, but one where the US may be targeted by a small subgroup of people. Canadians seem to have avoided this stigma until very recently.

As someone once told me "everybody loves Canadians" you may have an easier time of traveling then if you had a US Flag on your backpack. The last trip where we were "out there" was Greece (it's all Greek to me.) We've had a long history of friendship with Greece, but I was hard pressed at times to spot it.

What I always find amazing is when we travel people know we're American, but as soon as we step off the plane in US Customs everyone now looks like an American to me, as I to them.

We are a melting pot of the world, and have stood united for over two centuries. As soon as we start to carve out segments, we will lose what has kept us together(IMO.) Familiarity breeds distinction.

Really a topic for around a campfire with a beverage, until we really got into it about gun control :B. Yes, gun control is using two hands :W

Yes Pawatt, I am now officially off topic, sorry 'bout that.

[John___Angela]

John&Joey wrote:
Very interesting posts, but I think you're not telling the whole story.

Canada may be bilingual, but from an outside perspective it seems to go only one way for a certain group of French separatists. Also what is the cost to the country to be bilingual? The further west in Canada the less tolerant of being bilingual is what I see.

J&A the Netherlands' has always been one of the most accepting cultures in the world. When I attempted to speak Dutch, I was told not to since they pride themselves on being so fluent. The last Dutch couple I've talked to said it's not so much now-a-days. Over half the country is no longer Dutch (according to them,) and they are losing their culture. They are trying to cling onto their heritage the best they can.

When you go to France good luck trying to speak either English or Spanish. Even your Canadian and our Cajun French will be looked down on because it is not true French. No-one would speak English to me until I started speaking French. Then they got so frustrated with my broken French that they would start to speak English. I'm sure they were trying to hold onto their culture as best they can.

The US is/has been the melting pot of the world for over two hundred years, somehow we all made it work even with all our different languages and cultures. I'm guessing it was because when you came to this country you gave up dual nationality (in the eyes of the US government) so as to live/carve out the American dream. It was because of all our differences, but willingness to be one that made the US powerful. As they say "united we stand, divided we fall."

I got no answers to any of this, just observations.

Good morning. Its true that language and culture are closely tied in society and this is apparent in New Brunswick and Quebec, the two prime french speaking provinces of Canada. I would certainly not tie french to just a separatist faction of Quebec, not in any way shape or form, although yes, separatists speak french. Of the 11 million of us who speak french, 6 million live in Quebec and about 2 million of them would prefer to see a sovereign nation. There are francophones and francophone communities in every province in Canada although BC has very few. It is part of our history and cultural make up of our country. Frankly I love the francophone component of our culture and although I speak French fairly fluently I am not francophone by birth. My wife was born in Quebec but speaks only a little french.

Although dialects can make for challenges generally speaking they are not show stoppers for conversations. They add colour and bring out a few smiles and chuckles but for the most part don't stop a conversation from happening. I have carried conversations in Spanish in 3 Latin American countries as well as all over Spain with no difficulty although its obvious there are differences in vocabulario and accents. Again, good for a few laughs. It quite often becomes a topic within a conversation. For what it's worth I found the dialect in Paris a little more challenging then the rest of the country or the even the francophones in the rest of Europe like Switzerland etc. I find morrocan French to be the easiest to assimilate although at least in the North (Tangiers area) there is a bit of a Spanish crossover. Way fun. Interesting Country. Official Language Arabic but Goverment and a lot of business conducted in French. Spanish is prominent in the North for obvious reasons.

For Americans Tangiers is a definite must see. Morroco and the USA have a very tight history. It was the first country to recognize the USA as an independant country and the first overseas embassy for the USA. Although the embassy is now in another city the origin is maintained in perfect condition. Like a snapshot in time. Not far away in a public cemetery there are US serviceman burried as well as a few Canadian airmen. Their graves are kept clean and maintained by a local group of volunteers. We had a very good day that day.

Again, interesting discussion. Interesting to hear different points of view.

[John_Joey]

Very interesting posts, but I think you're not telling the whole story.

Canada may be bilingual, but from an outside perspective it seems to go only one way for a certain group of French separatists. Also what is the cost to the country to be bilingual? The further west in Canada the less tolerant of being bilingual is what I see.

J&A the Netherlands' has always been one of the most accepting cultures in the world. When I attempted to speak Dutch, I was told not to since they pride themselves on being so fluent. The last Dutch couple I've talked to said it's not so much now-a-days. Over half the country is no longer Dutch (according to them,) and they are losing their culture. They are trying to cling onto their heritage the best they can.

When you go to France good luck trying to speak either English or Spanish. Even your Canadian and our Cajun French will be looked down on because it is not true French. No-one would speak English to me until I started speaking French. Then they got so frustrated with my broken French that they would start to speak English. I'm sure they were trying to hold onto their culture as best they can.

The US is/has been the melting pot of the world for over two hundred years, somehow we all made it work even with all our different languages and cultures. I'm guessing it was because when you came to this country you gave up dual nationality (in the eyes of the US government) so as to live/carve out the American dream. It was because of all our differences, but willingness to be one that made the US powerful. As they say "united we stand, divided we fall."

I got no answers to any of this, just observations.

[almcc]

John and Angela's comments are appropriate. I guess as Canadians we take the bilingual nature of our country for granted, we take the voice mail prompts for granted "for English press 1, and the equivalent in French: for french press 2" when we call to contact companies by phone. And what's becoming more common with forward looking companies is trilingual packaging, English, French and Spanish.

Not sure if it happens in the US, but here companies pay a premium to employees who are bilingual and some advertise this as a job requirement when hiring, they test to assure that candidates are truly bilingual. Not required for all jobs but it's becoming more common. I've had a career promotion blocked because I'm not fluently bilingual and the promotion required that capability (and my "Parisian high school French" didn't cut it!), I wasn't upset as I understood why.

Maybe that's what the future will look like in the US as well with the Spanish speaking population on the rise

[John___Angela]

TomG2 wrote:

TexasShadow wrote:
IMO, the reason many spanish speaking immigrants never learn to speak english is because they don't have to.
I took spanish in school a hundred years ago and never learned to speak it fluently, but if I HAVE to, I can communicate in spanish, albeit very very basic.
And the more I do it, the easier it gets...it's like riding a bike...it comes back to me.
So I say we need to stop making it so darn easy to avoid english. people will do what they gotta do if they gotta do it. 🙂

Absolutely. When people want a job or to sell me something, they learn my language. When I want to do business with them, I will learn theirs. If I had a dozen campers to sell down here, you can bet I would learn enough Spanish to conduct the sale.

Without a doubt. But as a foreigner looking in I can't see why it would bother anyone what language anyone would speak. I guess I can't wrap my head around what positive effect on society making it "not easy" to avoid english would have. Additional languages and culture add to a nation, not subtract from it. Especially a language as important as spanish. Not to mention the employability factor for the next generation. The fastest growing middle classes in the world are mostly from Spanish speaking nations. Anyone with a resume with secondary and tertiary language skills is going to have a leg up.

Certainly I wouldn't classify a country with more than 60 million spanish speakers not to mention an entire territory (Puerto Rico) with one of the official languages being spanish as an English speaking country. AT very mininimum I would classify it as an unofficial bilingual country. Really its one of the main things that attracts us to the area where we are. That and its only a three day drive to a nice warm winter. 🙂 🙂

Its an interesting discussion.

[John_Joey]

qtla9111 wrote:
The real issue isn't about speaking English, it's about people learning to speak Spanish. Not easy, takes time, but makes one's life much fuller.

I agree 100%. The only issue I have is not being met half way.

You must admit in the original post the buyer calling the English speaking seller just hung up. That speaks volumes.

[NC_Roamer]

I lived in south Florida in the early 70s and recall a cartoon showing a motorist reading a highway sign that said:
NOW LEAVING MIAMI
RESUME ENGLISH

[qtla9111]

People have been speaking Spanish in South Texas for more than 400 years even before it was Texas. No need to change now. They have lived in harmony with English speakers also for at least 150 years without any issues.

You have two options, either learn Spanish or learn to miss out on a lot of fun and good stuff.

About One in Four Americans Can Hold a Conversation in a Second Language according to Gallup.

After all, there are 24 Spanish speaking countries in North, Central, South America and the Carribean. Maybe it's time the U.S. and Canada get on the band wagon.

The real issue isn't about speaking English, it's about people learning to speak Spanish. Not easy, takes time, but makes one's life much fuller.

[TomG2]

TexasShadow wrote:
IMO, the reason many spanish speaking immigrants never learn to speak english is because they don't have to.
I took spanish in school a hundred years ago and never learned to speak it fluently, but if I HAVE to, I can communicate in spanish, albeit very very basic.
And the more I do it, the easier it gets...it's like riding a bike...it comes back to me.
So I say we need to stop making it so darn easy to avoid english. people will do what they gotta do if they gotta do it. 🙂

Absolutely. When people want a job or to sell me something, they learn my language. When I want to do business with them, I will learn theirs. If I had a dozen campers to sell down here, you can bet I would learn enough Spanish to conduct the sale.

[TexasShadow]

IMO, the reason many spanish speaking immigrants never learn to speak english is because they don't have to.
I took spanish in school a hundred years ago and never learned to speak it fluently, but if I HAVE to, I can communicate in spanish, albeit very very basic.
And the more I do it, the easier it gets...it's like riding a bike...it comes back to me.
So I say we need to stop making it so darn easy to avoid english. people will do what they gotta do if they gotta do it. 🙂

[John_Joey]

R12RTee wrote:

John&Joey wrote:
I think the Valley might be the only place in the whole USA that a person would have to state that they did not speak the national language of English in an ad.

Please quote a source that defines English as the official "national language" of the United States.

Well Sir. I stand corrected.

Clicky

As someone once told me "If you don't take care of your town, it won't be long till it's someone else's town" comes to my mind right now.

[John___Angela]

R12RTee wrote:

rockhillmanor wrote:

TomG2 wrote:
I listed my RV on the McAllen, Texas Craigslist but left off the above words. Three calls today and all hung up when I could not reply to their questions in Spanish. I really don't know, and won't know, if they were serious shoppers or not. I am not complaining, that is just the way of the world in the Rio Grande Valley of Texas.

It's not just Texas.
This happened to me too when I listed some items on craigslist while I was in Florida. I just asked them why they were calling if they couldn't speak or understand English?:R

I dunno I am old school. If you move to a different country 'learn the language'.

I have traveled abroad and USA is the only country that encourages/caters to foreigner speaking people to NOT learn English. I think it's sad.

My grandparent emigrated from Germany and Poland and they learned the language as did all of the immigrants of years gone by. They didn't demand that all informational items and signs be printed in both English and their language....they learned the main language of the country they moved to. Just saying "I" don't have the tolerance.

I think the statement that "they learned the language as did all of the immigrants of years gone by" may be a bit of an over statement. Most immigrants that I have met spoke very little English. They also tended to cluster in communities that they are comfortable with and didn't need to learn another language. The second and third generations are the ones that make the transition.

Agreed. But I think it depends on the language as well. In the case of my parents language (Dutch) the community was small and it made sense to become more proficient in English. Their business depended on it. But the US is the second biggest spanish speaking nation in the world (depending on your stat sources) and entire communities speak the language. The need to speak English outside the home is much less in these communities. Official languages of countries are important from the point of view of publication costs etc but have little effect on the actual society and culture of communities. This is an ever changing landscapes. Right now I can't imagine any superviser, manager or business owner not filing job applications from monolingual applicants at the bottom of the pile, at least in the Spanish speaking parts of the USA...including Puerto Rico. :).

[TomG2]

I hope this does not get too political, but I was somewhat surprised to hear the callers respond in Spanish to an ad that was written in English. I should have known, as the people that want to sell their goods and services to the Winter Texans learn English. Those who want to sell to immigrants, use their language. Ironically, the scammer from a thousand miles away who offered to buy my trailer sight unseen at my asking price used very correct English.