Sad state of national parks and public lands.

[Yosemite_Sam1]

On our way to Lassen Volcanic National Park.

On a national forest rest stop and vista point, wifey went to the rest room.

But it was posted "Closed due to lack of funding."

And down on these national forest roads are trucks barreling down with full loads of logged timbers on the national forest.

It's not hard to do the math that one of those trucks can. pay for the maintenance of that entire rest stop and the rest rooms.

Bigly sad!

[Yosemite_Sam1]

cptqueeg wrote:

azdryheat wrote:
With millions of visitors to our national parks it's hard to believe we can't turn a profit. Actually it is very believable because our government bureaucrats only know how to spend, spend, spend. Make a buck? Forget it. Give the parks over to private management and watch them flourish. Maybe we could even get RV areas large enuf for big rigs.

Nobody said they weren't making a profit. As I explained the revenue goes to the general fund and then it's appropriated back or NOT to the USFS to run the NF system, the BLM for BLM lands, and NP Service for the Parks.

True dat!

And with the increased revenues out of public lands (except the Bundys of this country who refused to pay up for their grazing lands), the federal governments are squeezing them of fund through decreasing budget allocations.

That's killing the goose that lays the golden egg as visitors and tourists sees the unmaintained and dilapidated facilities.

Last year in Yosemite, one campground that I used to stay, has broken tables and unmaintained eroded roadway where several campsite cannot be used. This is another situation I saw in Olympic National Forest.

One of the programs that I am seeing less and less are those academic and scientist rangers giving visitors, specially the youth, presentations about the ecology, geology and rare wildlife of the specific parks.

[cptqueeg]

azdryheat wrote:
With millions of visitors to our national parks it's hard to believe we can't turn a profit. Actually it is very believable because our government bureaucrats only know how to spend, spend, spend. Make a buck? Forget it. Give the parks over to private management and watch them flourish. Maybe we could even get RV areas large enuf for big rigs.

Nobody said they weren't making a profit. As I explained the revenue goes to the general fund and then it's appropriated back or NOT to the USFS to run the NF system, the BLM for BLM lands, and NP Service for the Parks.

[azdryheat]

With millions of visitors to our national parks it's hard to believe we can't turn a profit. Actually it is very believable because our government bureaucrats only know how to spend, spend, spend. Make a buck? Forget it. Give the parks over to private management and watch them flourish. Maybe we could even get RV areas large enuf for big rigs.

[Yosemite_Sam1]

Elk_traveler wrote:
Sadly the national parks and public lands are suffering across the country. It's unfortunate that many people do not see them as a priority for funds. I myself am a subscriber and supporter of Yellowstone Forever but even for those who have never visited one of these areas schools kids should get to know about these areas. When they grow up they can support their government representatives to provide better funding and build a national support for both private and government funding. I have visited many if not most of the national parks and it would be mighty sad to see the nation lose these wonderful areas because of neglect.

Ironic huh? The African countries who suffered from ages of environmental degradation and abuse are now of focusing on the youth for the appreciation of the environment and wildlife so they can be part of protecting it for their own future.

[Yosemite_Sam1]

cptqueeg wrote:

profdant139 wrote:
cptqueeg, it is interesting that you should say "enjoy it before it goes up in smoke." When we were in Idaho a couple of years ago, that is exactly what the ranger said to us -- the bark beetle was spreading, and the forests were on borrowed time.

Someday the forests will recover, long after I am gone.

The mtn pine bark beetle which attacks mainly lodgepole pines is now no longer limited by elevation because winter temps have moderated (both low temps and the length of time at low temps) so it's attacking limber pine in the alpine zone which is now a threatened species.

There are many other bugs out there working away on all the other species of trees as well. Limited moisture puts stress on trees and they are no longer able to repel attacks from bugs. The dying and dead trees then are prime fuel for fires.

When I was on fire crews here in central Idaho way back before the turn of century we called the forests the asbestos forest. That is no longer the case as virtually the entire region has been burned over in the last 20 years.

While some foresters wanted to start cutting way back when timid managers and an others kept that from happening. It surely would have looked different than it was, but folks couldn't accept the inevitable. Things are never going to remain the same and I doubt the forest in Central Idaho will ever be anything like what it once was.

Whoa, this is new information for me.

And thank you for your service.

The good news, somehow, is that there is an obvious cleaning of brush and undergrowth and thinning in the Lassen National Forest. Hopefully, their new findings of letting natural burns to prevent bigger conflagration will be implemented and will be a success.

[cptqueeg]

profdant139 wrote:
cptqueeg, it is interesting that you should say "enjoy it before it goes up in smoke." When we were in Idaho a couple of years ago, that is exactly what the ranger said to us -- the bark beetle was spreading, and the forests were on borrowed time.

Someday the forests will recover, long after I am gone.

The mtn pine bark beetle which attacks mainly lodgepole pines is now no longer limited by elevation because winter temps have moderated (both low temps and the length of time at low temps) so it's attacking limber pine in the alpine zone which is now a threatened species.

There are many other bugs out there working away on all the other species of trees as well. Limited moisture puts stress on trees and they are no longer able to repel attacks from bugs. The dying and dead trees then are prime fuel for fires.

When I was on fire crews here in central Idaho way back before the turn of century we called the forests the asbestos forest. That is no longer the case as virtually the entire region has been burned over in the last 20 years.

While some foresters wanted to start cutting way back when timid managers and an others kept that from happening. It surely would have looked different than it was, but folks couldn't accept the inevitable. Things are never going to remain the same and I doubt the forest in Central Idaho will ever be anything like what it once was.

[Elk_traveler]

Sadly the national parks and public lands are suffering across the country. It's unfortunate that many people do not see them as a priority for funds. I myself am a subscriber and supporter of Yellowstone Forever but even for those who have never visited one of these areas schools kids should get to know about these areas. When they grow up they can support their government representatives to provide better funding and build a national support for both private and government funding. I have visited many if not most of the national parks and it would be mighty sad to see the nation lose these wonderful areas because of neglect.

[profdant139]

cptqueeg, it is interesting that you should say "enjoy it before it goes up in smoke." When we were in Idaho a couple of years ago, that is exactly what the ranger said to us -- the bark beetle was spreading, and the forests were on borrowed time.

Someday the forests will recover, long after I am gone.

[cptqueeg]

Yosemite Sam1 wrote:
On our way to Lassen Volcanic National Park.

On a national forest rest stop and vista point, wifey went to the rest room.

But it was posted "Closed due to lack of funding."

And down on these national forest roads are trucks barreling down with full loads of logged timbers on the national forest.

It's not hard to do the math that one of those trucks can. pay for the maintenance of that entire rest stop and the rest rooms.

Bigly sad!

Actually if you did the math you'd be even sadder. Btwn the cost of road building and the length of hauls to the mills that wood is actually worthless as a revenue producing resource for the American public. Ggl below cost timber sales.

The poster above has it right; the revunue generated from multiple use fees like timber sales, grazing, campground fees, firewood permits, etc goes to the general fund and then is appropriated (or not) back to the local NF. Firefighting sucks up a huge portion of the money these days and even funds dedicated to other NF activities gets taken to fight fires as well. It's really sad, imho, as there is obiviosly an overwhelming desire to get out and enjoy our beautiful country before it all goes up in smoke.

[Grodyman]

Well, they look to be faring better than the inner cities....

[Yosemite_Sam1]

profdant139 wrote:
For the sake of comparison, visit a Cal Fire Demonstration Forest -- beautifully maintained, properly thinned, logging allowed but carefully monitored by the rangers. It can be done.

Don't know why the federal forests are falling apart, by contrast.

The difference is the priorities from the top. As they say, you put money where your mouth is (and that's the message that cascades to the troops down below too).

CA, with the 5 consecutive years of surplus, are restoring the budget to public parks and education cut from the lean Great Recession years.

[profdant139]

For the sake of comparison, visit a Cal Fire Demonstration Forest -- beautifully maintained, properly thinned, logging allowed but carefully monitored by the rangers. It can be done.

Don't know why the federal forests are falling apart, by contrast.

[J_herb]

Yosemite Sam1 wrote:
On our way to Lassen Volcanic National Park.

On a national forest rest stop and vista point, wifey went to the rest room.

But it was posted "Closed due to lack of funding."

And down on these national forest roads are trucks barreling down with full loads of logged timbers on the national forest.

It's not hard to do the math that one of those trucks can. pay for the maintenance of that entire rest stop and the rest rooms.

Bigly sad!

We have seen this around the PNW forest with some campgrounds closing early or no services at tourist areas that used to have them.

AT Union Creek Oregon on the way to Crater Lake NP. the restrooms have not been clean up for a few years now, no trash cans so the trash goes on the ground. ( Thanks to the Rogue River NF. )

To take care of this problem I got a cargo van and converted it to a camper van so we have our potty with us all the time, and we use it to tow our trailer for longer trips.

[Yosemite_Sam1]

dave54 wrote:
Were the log trucks from National Forest timber sales or private lands?

Who is responsible for the rest room -- Forest Service or Caltrans under a cost share agreement?

Definitely national forest as a forest ranger was the one putting in entry barriers and road warnings while the logging is going on.

The signs are on Forest Service logo. If it's joint, both logo would appear, I would think.

But how is that an issue when we already know on the news of the budget cuts on national parks and forests? This is just a confirmation.

Same thing I've seen in Olympic National Park and Yosemite last year.

[dave54]

Were the log trucks from National Forest timber sales or private lands?

Who is responsible for the rest room -- Forest Service or Caltrans under a cost share agreement?