Honda generator and electrical grid

[cgmartine]

Might I ask a question here unrelated to motorhomes? The topic of portable generators often comes up here and on other forums. I am thinking of buying the Honda "Companion" portable generator, and I am wondering if there is a way, in the event of an emergency, to connect it to the house directly, by having an electrician wire up something like a 30 amp receptable to the house, where I would then plug in the 30 amp cord directly from the generator, to eliminate a bunch of electrical cords to the various items I would intend to power. I know I would be limited to just a couple of items unless I had a second generator, which I am also contemplating in buying. Has anyone done this?

[Horizon170]

It is/would be, stupid, ignorant and lack of respect for the life of others to Jerry-rig for a power outage.
Do it right according to code or use an extension cord and plug strip as others have suggested.
I have a manual 200 amp transfer switch on mine and there is ZERO chance of frying some electrical worker out repairing stuff on the Grid.
Marvin

[mikestock]

I have an outside, 30 amp, receptacle that feeds a 50 amp transfer switch with both legs tied together. On the other side of the switch is the power company's feed to the two legs. The common output covers most of the essential 120 volt circuits, including the furnace blower.

My home has gas heat, water heater and range. The air conditioner and clothes dryer, and washing machine are on separate circuits. This was done by an electrical contractor and there is no chance of backfeed.

I have very few limitations when we lose power.

[JaxDad]

DrewE wrote:

JaxDad wrote:

The neutral and ground wires are bonded at the service entrance, the meter base, and so there is connectivity beyond the mains, even if they are off. There is electrical potential then beyond your house.

The ‘path of least resistance’ is not always the only path, or the nearest path.

It takes several thousandth less electricity to kill somebody than it does to trip the average breaker.

If the earthing is poor, the entire house system will be floating. The potential that the linemen would see is basically a static charge in that case; there's no chance for current to flow, as there's no return path to the generator via the earth.

The house may not be fully floating, as I stated the neutral might not be the only path.

If there’s more than one house powered by a generator it gets far more complicated.

It wouldn’t take much more than a ‘static charge’, experts say as little as 100 milliamperes would be lethal.

[DrewE]

JaxDad wrote:

The neutral and ground wires are bonded at the service entrance, the meter base, and so there is connectivity beyond the mains, even if they are off. There is electrical potential then beyond your house.

If in a power outage the ground next to your house is a poorer conductor (drier maybe) than further down the line, where a utility worker is in contact with the downed or broken line, then that worker could be the best path to ground.

The ‘path of least resistance’ is not always the only path, or the nearest path.

It takes several thousandth less electricity to kill somebody than it does to trip the average breaker.

To paraphrase, and badly butcher, Clint Eastwood, “do you feel lucky”?

If the earthing is poor, the entire house system will be floating. The potential that the linemen would see is basically a static charge in that case; there's no chance for current to flow, as there's no return path to the generator via the earth.

Of course, if the earthing is good, the neutral is at ground potential and so no current will flow as there is no potential difference to drive it.

There is no danger here that I can make out. The writers of the NEC must also not see any practical danger, in as much as such an installation is permitted. Failing to properly and positively lock out the hot connection is, of course, an entirely different matter, and is dangerous and not permitted. (In particular, having a generator running with a hot connection to the utility transformer will make the utility lines live at their high voltage potential, generally 7 kV or higher, when the workers believe them to be dead. That, as much as anything else, is what the code is particularly trying to guard against.)

[JaxDad]

theoldwizard1 wrote:

JaxDad wrote:

theoldwizard1 wrote:

pianotuna wrote:
Set up a proper transfer switch. I had a nice six circuit manual one in my home. It was quite handy.

And this is what I DO NOT like about those ! You have to PICK your 6 circuits !

Why ? I am smart enough to "manage" my loads.

If I want to go to the back bedroom and watch TV there, no problem, as long as I am not going to exceed the capacity of my generator !

Yeah, what’s a utility workers life compared to the incredible convenience of watching TV in the back bedroom?

That statement is ridiculous ! I am advocating a generator interlock which prevents that occurrence, not a "suicide cord" !!

The term ‘suicide cord’ refers to the fact that there’s a male (exposed terminals) end on both ends so it doesn’t matter what it’s plugged into, the exposed ends are ‘hot’ and anyone coming in contact with them will get a jolt. It has nothing to do with what I’m talking about.

The neutral and ground wires are bonded at the service entrance, the meter base, and so there is connectivity beyond the mains, even if they are off. There is electrical potential then beyond your house.

If in a power outage the ground next to your house is a poorer conductor (drier maybe) than further down the line, where a utility worker is in contact with the downed or broken line, then that worker could be the best path to ground.

The ‘path of least resistance’ is not always the only path, or the nearest path.

It takes several thousandth less electricity to kill somebody than it does to trip the average breaker.

To paraphrase, and badly butcher, Clint Eastwood, “do you feel lucky”?

[theoldwizard1]

pianotuna wrote:
Being able to use lights in locations such as bathrooms is a feature that extension cords can not meet.

This is exactly the point I was trying to make. A generator interlock allows this.

[theoldwizard1]

JaxDad wrote:

theoldwizard1 wrote:

pianotuna wrote:
Set up a proper transfer switch. I had a nice six circuit manual one in my home. It was quite handy.

And this is what I DO NOT like about those ! You have to PICK your 6 circuits !

Why ? I am smart enough to "manage" my loads.

If I want to go to the back bedroom and watch TV there, no problem, as long as I am not going to exceed the capacity of my generator !

Yeah, what’s a utility workers life compared to the incredible convenience of watching TV in the back bedroom?

That statement is ridiculous ! I am advocating a generator interlock which prevents that occurrence, not a "suicide cord" !!

[steveh27]

I have used extension cords, and thought about rewiring the furnace to work with them, but the 6 circuit transfer switch also looks good, just a lot more money.

[pianotuna]

Hi,

Being able to use lights in locations such as bathrooms is a feature that extension cords can not meet. I had, at the time, a 2800 watt Kipor inverter generator. It never overloaded. Being able to run the furnace was very nice.

theoldwizard1 wrote:

pianotuna wrote:
Set up a proper transfer switch. I had a nice six circuit manual one in my home. It was quite handy.

And this is what I DO NOT like about those ! You have to PICK your 6 circuits !

Why ? I am smart enough to "manage" my loads. If I want to go to the back bedroom and watch TV there, no problem, as long as I am not going to exceed the capacity of my generator !

If I have a load (extra freezer) that is intermittent, I can unplug something (like the main refrigerator) and then run the other load for a few hours and switch back. Heck, you can run a well pump (if you have a 240V generator) and wash clothes (probably with cold water). You might even be able to heat a heat a tank of water with everything else turned off !

[steveh27]

Ron3rd wrote:

owenssailor wrote:

SAR Tracker wrote:
Here in Central Oregon, we have "emergencies" once in a while. I just run an extension cord inside from the generator to a power strip, running the fridge, freezer, TV, and laptops. Longest I've had to run them is 28 hours. Normally, the generator stays in the garage.

I really hope you shut off the main beaker to your house when you do a jury rigged approach like this. Otherwise you can send 120V power out to the lines where people are working. This could hurt or kill them!!!!!!!!

That's why he's asking the question.

Running stuff from an extension cord from a generator is not endangering line workers as the extension cord is not connected to the homes wiring nor the power grid. I would not have the genny in the garage though unless it is not attached to the house. Some have died due to CO poisoning doing that.

[Ron3rd]

time2roll wrote:
Just hire an electrician. It will work fine and comply with all city and utility requirements to be safe in all conditions.

This answer ^^^^^^^^

[Ron3rd]

owenssailor wrote:

SAR Tracker wrote:
Here in Central Oregon, we have "emergencies" once in a while. I just run an extension cord inside from the generator to a power strip, running the fridge, freezer, TV, and laptops. Longest I've had to run them is 28 hours. Normally, the generator stays in the garage.

I really hope you shut off the main beaker to your house when you do a jury rigged approach like this. Otherwise you can send 120V power out to the lines where people are working. This could hurt or kill them!!!!!!!!

That's why he's asking the question.

[JaxDad]

theoldwizard1 wrote:

pianotuna wrote:
Set up a proper transfer switch. I had a nice six circuit manual one in my home. It was quite handy.

And this is what I DO NOT like about those ! You have to PICK your 6 circuits !

Why ? I am smart enough to "manage" my loads.

If I want to go to the back bedroom and watch TV there, no problem, as long as I am not going to exceed the capacity of my generator !

Yeah, what’s a utility workers life compared to the incredible convenience of watching TV in the back bedroom?

[theoldwizard1]

sherlywang wrote:
Honda is famous, maybe better than Cummins,I think. I'm happy with mine. how ever it's important to remember that power from propane will cost you double the cost of power from diesel fuel as propane has a lot less "energy" when compared to diesel.

Propane does not good bad when stored for a long period of time !

I always tell folks who have no access to natural gas, but want a whole home/large (more than 6,000 watts continuous) generator to go propane. At the same time, I tell them to SERIOUSLY consider changing their electric heating appliances (water heater, dryer, stove) to propane, even if they do it one at a time. They will save money. Start with the water heater. Probably the lowest cost and the item that will wear out first.