Deisel vs. Gasoline

[Alannyiri]

We bought a new 41 ft Redwood last fall (16,400 GVWR) and plan to start FTing next winter, after retirement. I'm planning to buy a Ram 3500 (or perhaps 4500) crew cab dually chassis, and put a hauler-style bed on it. I've been planning to fit the truck with the 6.7 L Cummins, but I have to wonder if the new 6.4 L Hemi might be sufficient for the job. We'll have a small car with us for day-to-day exploring, and plan to move around infrequently and seasonally - two months here, four months there - so there won't be a lot of annual mileage ; perhaps 12-15,000 a year for the tow vehicle, max. The $8K savings of the Hemi over the Cummins is tempting, but the extra torque and exhaust braking is equally desirable. Anyone with real-world experience out there who'd like to share the wisdom of your experience with us? (PS: my last rig was a Ford 350 dually with the 7.3 deisel, pulling a HR 30 ft TT, used for extended work trips - I'm a photographer. We have a lot of 3-6 month trips under our belt, and know the lifestyle we're about to move into.) Thanks in advance for sharing your knowledge and advise.

[texasclarks]

Deleted...double poat

[texasclarks]

2oldman wrote:

sh4717 wrote:
BTW, I've got a bet going on how many pages this thread turns into. :B

I've got a bet going on how long it will remain in 5th wheels.

Probably no less than 10 pages 🙂

[d-mac1]

Like the last poster commented, probably already got it figured out, but diesel is the only way to go. I couldn't imagine trying to pull 16k or so with a gas burner. You're on the right track with a Cummins for sure!!

If you wanna go HDT, check the links below for all sorts of info, but it'll be pricey by the time you're done. Jack's site talks about a company that makes em custom. Single the tractor, put on a big sleeper, all sorts of stuff. I just marvel at the expense, but have no interest in a rig that big...or a Smart car as my transportation once I'm camped.

http://www.rvnetwork.com/index.php?showforum=32

http://www.jackdanmayer.com/

[RW_Cal]

We bought a Ram 3500 ext cab, 8 ft. Dually with the Turbo Diesel and ASIN tranny last December. We went all in on it, but got a good deal.
I am pulling a 41 ft Redwood (38RL) with it and I'm very happy with the setup. Lots of power and we average between 10-11 mpg of fuel while towing, depending on terrain.
You posted a few months ago, so I hope you got what you needed.

[rhagfo]

jevanb wrote:
Buy a diesel and tow with it and you can see this kind of miles in your lifetime (if taken care of) , buy a gasser and do the same towing and I do not believe you will see these miles before it is replaced


Clicky

Clicky 2

🙂

[jevanb]

Buy a diesel and tow with it and you can see this kind of miles in your lifetime (if taken care of) , buy a gasser and do the same towing and I do not believe you will see these miles before it is replaced


http://autos.aol.com/article/million-miles-family-truck-7-years/?icid=maing-grid7%7Chtmlws-main-bb%7Cdl30%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D334080

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=OOdf3r0nZzk

[valhalla360]

ol Bombero-JC wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

ol Bombero-JC wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:


It comes down to what are you towing.

A few thoughts on some of the comments:
- Longevity is really a non-issue these days unless you are a big rig putting 100k+ miles per year on the engine. Properly maintained, either engine will hold up long term.
- Diesel engines have more torque but gas engines are happy at higher RPM. You simply use a lower gear ratio to get similar torque at the rear wheels. It sounds like the engine is screaming but assuming it is in good repair and within the tow ratings, it's fine.

What you are towing = true.
Towed TTs with gassers for years.

Longevity - from the previously posted link.

A ten year old LDT with 200K miles on it may be near the end of it's life.

Even if it's had LOTS of "TLC" (or claims of same) - would you buy it?... or be looking for one of the used trucks with low miles - like previous posters have found?

If it's a ten year old HDT (or an MDT) with 200K miles on it, it's barely broken in..:W
A buyer can usually access maint records on an HDT - can you do that on a used pickup?

No dog in the fight - my ten year old CTD only has 75K on it.

BTW - the owner of the local diesel shop was a diesel mechanic at a Ford dealership.
His "bread & butter" when he first opened the shop was Ford 6.0 diesels that were (then) out of warranty.
And there were LOTS of 'em.

Sure there were owners who never had any problems - then there's owners who were on their second buy-backs..:(
You could find their tales of woe on the Ford diesel forums.

Which is a good idea for the OP......if you must have a pickup,
visit the forums for whichever pickup *brand* -new or used- you might be considering.
See what problems *owners* are having - how often/long at the dealership?..;)



~

A 10yr old truck with 200k miles is fairly heavy use averaging around 20k/yr. Assuming more than 50% towing would be very heavy use.

National average is around 12k/yr and I suspect your average tow vehicle gets less than that.

Just picked up a 10yr old truck with a gas engine and 100k miles last summer. I expect to easily get another 100k miles and 6-7 years.

MDT and HDT trucks are kind of a seperate subject from the diesel/gas debate as they are built to completely different specs.

Well yes and no on the MDT & HDT.

Besides the towing capability, If a double tow - or the second car "scouting" - was in the cards (as the OP of the thread indicated) a method of combining the vehicles is a great option - like a Smart on the HDT deck.
Although it can be done with an MDT, there are benefits of an HDT over MDT - such as initial cost, and registering an HDT as a MH in many states.

As to gas or diesel:
*If* I was planning on towing "light" as in one of the several TTs I had - a gas engine would be a consideration.

Towing "heavy" - any 5th wheel...say over 30 ft, my choice would be (and is) diesel.
Right on!... with those different "specs" for MDT/HDT - you won't see an OTR tractor pulling an 80K lb trailer with a gas engine, LOL!

Obviously, choices due to owner's preference may vary.

~

Age / mileage considerations, used vehicles:
*If* you (or a buyer) are in some part of the country where low mileage 3/4 or 1T 10 year old pickups (LDTs) can be found thats outstanding!

In So CA - where pickups are used for everything (including camping year-round) - a low mileage 10 year old "survivor" is a rarity.
Ditto cars.

Does wonders for new car/truck sales!
(CA leads the nation for both)

For pickups, 200K -or more- for a 10 yr old pickup would be the norm and most likely "well worn" and go to a gardener or other local use.

When (*if*) an older LOW-mileage pickup (from mini to 1T) happens to pop up for sale somewhere, it's snatched up instantly like a 100 dollar bill on a busy sidewalk...;)..:W

~

I seriously doubt Michigan trucks recieve less abuse when you consider salt corrosion compared to california and 10 yr old trucks when we looked were mostly around 100-150k miles. There were some that were clearly abused but you could tell from the online pictures and quickly discard them from the search.

The trucks that had 200k+ in 10yrs or less were almost always clearly work trucks that had been abused. Again, easy to discard from the search.

[sk734]

ford truck guy wrote:
You stated that you will have a small car with you for the running around..... Will you be double towing with the truck?? No brainer if double towing.... diesel.... BTW - I would do diesel either way... I moved from the V-10 to the diesel and will never go back....

I did the same-go diesel.

[ol_Bombero-JC]

"rhagfo" - ".......many with less miles were in far worse shape".

Thank you! - Well said.

MDTs in *commercial* service are mostly city delivery trucks. No creature comforts, not intended for long hours on the road.
Can't be registered as a MH - which is a detriment in states which do *not* have a NON-commercial ("Private Truck") registration option.

HDT drivers.....

"Buying an HDT or MDT who knows how it was driven, the drivers aren't owners so they tend to abuse the truck they are driving."

Sort of opposite of what you say.
Owner/Operators *may* abuse what they own - and maybe not. It needs to be in good shape to pay the bills.
However the *owner* is paying the repair bills - and may "put things off".

Usually HDT fleet drivers are assigned to a specific tractor - often for it's entire life with the company. Some drivers even buy "their" tractor when their employer has taken the available depreciation, and is replacing it with a newer tractor.

Fleets govern (program) the maximum speed of their tractors.
Mechanical problems are repaired by the fleet's maintenance facility.
Drivers who abuse their equipment will be found out, "weeded out", and looking for other employment in short order!

Also, drivers aren't interested in risking citations resulting in points against their CDL - which puts their "work permit" in jeopardy.

Lastly whether it's an Owner Operator - or Company (fleet) owned tractor, it's subject to DOT inspections - usually at weigh stations, and sometimes by city, county or state LEO's doing inspections on the road.
Serious mechanical "failures" may result in: Park it until mechanical discrepancies are corrected, along with serious fines.

Simply stated, regular maintenance -and good driving habits- is/are a *requirement*, NOT an option!


~

[rhagfo]

ol Bombero-JC wrote:
........

A ten year old LDT with 200K miles on it may be near the end of it's life.

Even if it's had LOTS of "TLC" (or claims of same) - would you buy it?... or be looking for one of the used trucks with low miles - like previous posters have found?

If it's a ten year old HDT (or an MDT) with 200K miles on it, it's barely broken in..:W
A buyer can usually access maint records on an HDT - can you do that on a used pickup?

........

Well as an owner of a LDT bought with over 200,000, actually 234,000 miles. Mine might be the exception, but was in excellent condition. I had looked at several all in the 2000 to 2002 range, many with less miles were in far worse shape. I had been looking for one in the 150,000 range, but after crawling over this truck and seeing the condition it was in we bought it on the spot.

I was concerned about the Alpine tape player in the dash, until the salesman pointed out the 10 CD changer under the drivers seat!!

Buying a HDT or MDT who knows how it was driven, the drivers aren't owners so they tend to abuse the truck they are driving.

[ol_Bombero-JC]

.

"What's on your deck?" - Pics

.

[ol_Bombero-JC]

valhalla360 wrote:

ol Bombero-JC wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:


It comes down to what are you towing.

A few thoughts on some of the comments:
- Longevity is really a non-issue these days unless you are a big rig putting 100k+ miles per year on the engine. Properly maintained, either engine will hold up long term.
- Diesel engines have more torque but gas engines are happy at higher RPM. You simply use a lower gear ratio to get similar torque at the rear wheels. It sounds like the engine is screaming but assuming it is in good repair and within the tow ratings, it's fine.

What you are towing = true.
Towed TTs with gassers for years.

Longevity - from the previously posted link.

A ten year old LDT with 200K miles on it may be near the end of it's life.

Even if it's had LOTS of "TLC" (or claims of same) - would you buy it?... or be looking for one of the used trucks with low miles - like previous posters have found?

If it's a ten year old HDT (or an MDT) with 200K miles on it, it's barely broken in..:W
A buyer can usually access maint records on an HDT - can you do that on a used pickup?

No dog in the fight - my ten year old CTD only has 75K on it.

BTW - the owner of the local diesel shop was a diesel mechanic at a Ford dealership.
His "bread & butter" when he first opened the shop was Ford 6.0 diesels that were (then) out of warranty.
And there were LOTS of 'em.

Sure there were owners who never had any problems - then there's owners who were on their second buy-backs..:(
You could find their tales of woe on the Ford diesel forums.

Which is a good idea for the OP......if you must have a pickup,
visit the forums for whichever pickup *brand* -new or used- you might be considering.
See what problems *owners* are having - how often/long at the dealership?..;)



~

A 10yr old truck with 200k miles is fairly heavy use averaging around 20k/yr. Assuming more than 50% towing would be very heavy use.

National average is around 12k/yr and I suspect your average tow vehicle gets less than that.

Just picked up a 10yr old truck with a gas engine and 100k miles last summer. I expect to easily get another 100k miles and 6-7 years.

MDT and HDT trucks are kind of a seperate subject from the diesel/gas debate as they are built to completely different specs.

Well yes and no on the MDT & HDT.

Besides the towing capability, If a double tow - or the second car "scouting" - was in the cards (as the OP of the thread indicated) a method of combining the vehicles is a great option - like a Smart on the HDT deck.
Although it can be done with an MDT, there are benefits of an HDT over MDT - such as initial cost, and registering an HDT as a MH in many states.

As to gas or diesel:
*If* I was planning on towing "light" as in one of the several TTs I had - a gas engine would be a consideration.

Towing "heavy" - any 5th wheel...say over 30 ft, my choice would be (and is) diesel.
Right on!... with those different "specs" for MDT/HDT - you won't see an OTR tractor pulling an 80K lb trailer with a gas engine, LOL!

Obviously, choices due to owner's preference may vary.

~

Age / mileage considerations, used vehicles:
*If* you (or a buyer) are in some part of the country where low mileage 3/4 or 1T 10 year old pickups (LDTs) can be found thats outstanding!

In So CA - where pickups are used for everything (including camping year-round) - a low mileage 10 year old "survivor" is a rarity.
Ditto cars.

Does wonders for new car/truck sales!
(CA leads the nation for both)

For pickups, 200K -or more- for a 10 yr old pickup would be the norm and most likely "well worn" and go to a gardener or other local use.

When (*if*) an older LOW-mileage pickup (from mini to 1T) happens to pop up for sale somewhere, it's snatched up instantly like a 100 dollar bill on a busy sidewalk...;)..:W

~

[valhalla360]

ol Bombero-JC wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:


It comes down to what are you towing.

A few thoughts on some of the comments:
- Longevity is really a non-issue these days unless you are a big rig putting 100k+ miles per year on the engine. Properly maintained, either engine will hold up long term.
- Diesel engines have more torque but gas engines are happy at higher RPM. You simply use a lower gear ratio to get similar torque at the rear wheels. It sounds like the engine is screaming but assuming it is in good repair and within the tow ratings, it's fine.

What you are towing = true.
Towed TTs with gassers for years.

Longevity - from the previously posted link.

A ten year old LDT with 200K miles on it may be near the end of it's life.

Even if it's had LOTS of "TLC" (or claims of same) - would you buy it?... or be looking for one of the used trucks with low miles - like previous posters have found?

If it's a ten year old HDT (or an MDT) with 200K miles on it, it's barely broken in..:W
A buyer can usually access maint records on an HDT - can you do that on a used pickup?

No dog in the fight - my ten year old CTD only has 75K on it.

BTW - the owner of the local diesel shop was a diesel mechanic at a Ford dealership.
His "bread & butter" when he first opened the shop was Ford 6.0 diesels that were (then) out of warranty.
And there were LOTS of 'em.

Sure there were owners who never had any problems - then there's owners who were on their second buy-backs..:(
You could find their tales of woe on the Ford diesel forums.

Which is a good idea for the OP......if you must have a pickup,
visit the forums for whichever pickup *brand* -new or used- you might be considering.
See what problems *owners* are having - how often/long at the dealership?..;)



~

A 10yr old truck with 200k miles is fairly heavy use averaging around 20k/yr. Assuming more than 50% towing would be very heavy use.

National average is around 12k/yr and I suspect your average tow vehicle gets less than that.

Just picked up a 10yr old truck with a gas engine and 100k miles last summer. I expect to easily get another 100k miles and 6-7 years.

MDT and HDT trucks are kind of a seperate subject from the diesel/gas debate as they are built to completely different specs.

[stickdog]

We fulltime, 4 years, DW follows in a Focus. We volunteer and generally stay parked 3 to six months. Just had a oil change and fuel filter change today. Service writer couldn't believe there was only 24,000 on an "09" F350 DRW. I have talked to those with gas haulers and wonder whether I should have gone gas myself.
We don't have a exhaust brake but Tow/haul trans works on gas engines as well.
If OP plans on south of the border, how is the DEF supply down there?