Enough truck for 5th wheel?

[BarbOh_]

We have a 2007 Dodge Ram 2500 quad cab, with a V8, 5.7 liter engine. It is a four wheel drive, and a long bed. We have done quite a few mods to it because we previously owned a Travel Lite truck camper (with no slides). We also upgraded the tires to E size tires. Along with that, we installed four Bilstein shocks and a Bilstein shock/damper, an additional leaf spring, a K&N filter, and a sway bar. Oh, and two air bags.

We have sold the truck camper and purchased a 2018 Starcraft Solstice 28TSI. After we purchased it, but before we have picked it up, we were told by another dealer that our axle ratio is not enough for towing this particular fifth wheel. We currently have an axle ratio of 3.73, and were told it needed to be a 4.10. According to the manufacturer of the fifth wheel, its dry weight is 8,791 lbs, GVWR is 10,500 lbs and the hitch weight is 1,390 lbs.

According to the label on our truck, the GVWR is only 8,800 lbs. With all the modifications we have previously made, will we be safe towing the new fifth wheel? Or should we have the axle ratio modified to 4.10?

Sorry for the length of this post, but I wanted to be specific with all the numbers and the modifications we made on the truck.

Thanks for any input!

[Michelle_S]

"but it's his responsibility, not ours"
Not completely true, said person could be out there on the same roads as you or me, and I don't want to test their ability to control their unit under less than ideal conditions.

[slapshot12]

bid_time wrote:

slapshot12 wrote:
...My bet is you do not have enough truck to be legal...

Curious - What law will he be braking?

Exceeding the weight limits of his vehicle. Seldomly enforced on non-commercial vehicles, but the civil liability could be bad in the event of a crash. The Op can tow a 747 for all I care, but it's his responsibility, not ours.

[rjstractor]

Bierp wrote:
Ok, so my post is probably wrong, but if you're over the posted weight and you cause an accident, aren't you still liable (or negligent)? Isn't that worse than a ticket for weight violations? Doesn't that also risk insurance non-payment?

I haven't read the threads where this was covered. (Did I mention that I'm not a lawyer?)

If you cause an accident, you're liable, period. Doesn't matter whether you're overweight or not. Now, one could argue that being overweight makes it more likely for you to have an accident. But that's why we all have insurance (at least we hope) with sufficient coverage to protect our assets (or lack thereof). If your insurance exclusions specifically mention running overweight and you have an accident you could be in trouble. Chances are they don't.

[laknox]

k9jadon wrote:
Ok so help me understand please. If I climb a hill with a slightly "under powered" engine and can only do 40mph compared to 60mph with a "modern" power plant why is this a bad thing? The way I see it is this, as long as you control your RPM when climbing a hill and control your decent on the backside of the hill the only difference when comparing power plants is that one climbs the hill a bit slower than the other given the same set RPM for each engine. Why is this a big issue? I realize that the modern transmissions have hill decent control and things like this, but dang how did we do it back then when we didn't have these luxuries? My 2005 Starwood 28rl weighed about 10k fully loaded and I am sure that there were Dodge 2500 w/ 5.7 hemi trucks pulling these all day long. So as long as the axle ratings are fine, and assuming he has the right rated tires he should be fine. The only thing he gains is getting up the hill a bit faster. IMO

As I said before, drive on RPM, not speed. Look up the specs on your Hemi and see where the top HP is made and drive near there, when you need to. If your trailer brakes are properly adjusted, the trailer should stop itself and the truck stop itself...under normal circumstances. My personal practice is to let things ride until I'm as fast as I want to go, then stab the brakes fairly hard, brake down to about 10 mph below my "target", then let it ride on the engine until it speeds back up to my "target". In 14 years, it's worked well for me on the grades here in AZ, as well as on I-8 to/from San Diego and roads in E UT and W CO. Yes, I do have a diesel, but I've also towed with gassers and used the same method.

Lyle

[k9jadon]

Ok so help me understand please. If I climb a hill with a slightly "under powered" engine and can only do 40mph compared to 60mph with a "modern" power plant why is this a bad thing? The way I see it is this, as long as you control your RPM when climbing a hill and control your decent on the backside of the hill the only difference when comparing power plants is that one climbs the hill a bit slower than the other given the same set RPM for each engine. Why is this a big issue? I realize that the modern transmissions have hill decent control and things like this, but dang how did we do it back then when we didn't have these luxuries? My 2005 Starwood 28rl weighed about 10k fully loaded and I am sure that there were Dodge 2500 w/ 5.7 hemi trucks pulling these all day long. So as long as the axle ratings are fine, and assuming he has the right rated tires he should be fine. The only thing he gains is getting up the hill a bit faster. IMO

[2012Coleman]

BarbOh! wrote:
Thank you all for your input! Many different opinions out there! We are going to a CAT scale tomorrow to weigh the truck as it would be loaded for a camping trip, and then after we pick up the fifth wheel next week, we'll do the same with that. Then we'll see where we go from there. I've been on a few other forums regarding switching out the 3.73 axles for 4.10, and it seems as if most people don't think that will make much difference. Most posters seemed to think a jump up to the next highest axle ratio would be more helpful.

Our plan is to take the fifth wheel up into northern Michigan for a long weekend, just to see how it handles. After that, we will be doing quite a bit of traveling in it (Florida in the winter, and road trips to various national parks in the summer), and of course we will have to drive in mountainous areas. Since we are retired, we have no time limit on when and where we go, and can definitely take our time getting there!

Thanks again!

Weight issues aside, you will not be happy towing that fiver with the older 5.7 Hemi. I tow a 12000 lbs GVWR Grand Design Reflection 303RLS with a 2017 RAM 6.4 Hemi 2500. Have only towed within a couple hundred miles in FL. so far, but the engine revs on over passes. Oh it does the job, but it wears me out doing it.

I wouldn't go into the mountains with this setup - your planning on driving through them. Not me.

Currently shopping for a SRW 3500 diesel.

[Me_Again]

Bierp wrote:
Be careful here. The mods may help you tow better, but if you're over the official weight and there's an accident, you could be in bad shape.

So far as I know, modifications don't change your legal numbers. (Note: I'm not a lawyer.)

And you do not know much about weight laws either! NO pickup will exceed weight laws. Now one, depending on state, may exceed their licensed weight(tonnage). Which means you will be directed to purchase the extra tonnage for the load you are hauling.

Chris

[BarbOh_]

Thank you all for your input! Many different opinions out there! We are going to a CAT scale tomorrow to weigh the truck as it would be loaded for a camping trip, and then after we pick up the fifth wheel next week, we'll do the same with that. Then we'll see where we go from there. I've been on a few other forums regarding switching out the 3.73 axles for 4.10, and it seems as if most people don't think that will make much difference. Most posters seemed to think a jump up to the next highest axle ratio would be more helpful.

Our plan is to take the fifth wheel up into northern Michigan for a long weekend, just to see how it handles. After that, we will be doing quite a bit of traveling in it (Florida in the winter, and road trips to various national parks in the summer), and of course we will have to drive in mountainous areas. Since we are retired, we have no time limit on when and where we go, and can definitely take our time getting there!

Thanks again!

[Artum_Snowbird]

If a newbie was to ask the same questions as you, most of us would say "Grow up slowly and enjoy the ride." But you have done some extra heavy hauling. I did too and carried the load at way over the limit for the GVW without issues.

But when I went to the fifth wheel and had 9000 pounds pushing me downhill, that was a different story. No way could I use my brakes to slow me, so I could only ask my gears and engine to slow the entire rig. Some of the hills here can be seven miles long.

My 7.3 diesel would still do 50 mph in second gear on a steep hill, and when I got into the skinny roads that's way to fast. First gear was necessary to hold back the rig.

Be prepared to do the same, but you will pull it fine and tow it easily, just not stop as easily as some.

[laknox]

donn0128 wrote:
You would need to ask your insurance carrier for an answer to that question. Likely unless a police investigator cited you for gross overweight no one is going to know one way or the other. Common sense should dictate to most people to stick within the weight limits placed on a vehicle by the ones who manufacturerd it. Of course there are those that think they are smarter than the vehicle mfg. Go figure!

I wouldn't ask/tell my agent a d@mn thing; just opens up a can 'o worms that doesn't need to be opened. I'd still love to know the P/N's on that year's 3/4t and 1t axles. If the same, then that's something that can't be argued about. Adding the leaf, probably makes the spring pack a 1t pack. Not hard to add bigger brake calipers and/or rotors, too. (One of the few mods he hasn't done.) For all intents and purposes, OP's pretty much, IMO, got a 1t truck and, for a 10.5k trailer, shouldn't have much of a problem, at all. I towed an 11,360 GVW FW with my '02 D'max for 13 years and, yes, I know I was overloaded even well below that point, but didn't worry too much about it and just drove very cautiously and conservatively.

Lyle

[nodepositnoretu]

You have made good mod. Just go and enjoy camping .there is always a better way to do something,that usually involves buying something for that purpose, that involves more work to pay for said item. Use what you got camp more work less . Time and tide wait for no man.

[k9jadon]

I would think that you'd be ok. The mfg has made a pin weight of about 15-16% so this is in your favor. It used to be that FWs were 20-25% pin weight. However I've been looking lately for a new FW and I am seeing a lot of mfgs going with lighter pin weights..at least on the "entry" level models (even on the non-"half-ton" models). Personally I would trust what the mfg says about their pin weight. They are the ones who designed it and distributed the weight to get to the number they have published. So the difference between a 25% pin at gvwr and 16% pin is approx. 1235lbs, that is a lot of underwear and socks in your bedroom. Even if you consider propane and batteries, we're still only talking about 200lbs for those items. That leaves you with 1000lbs to reach the 25% pin weight. I seriously doubt someone who is paying attention would get there. Having said all this I think you should go out and weigh the vehicles if you are concerned, otherwise go out and have fun.

[kerrlakeRoo]

Since the OP is not in a mountinious area, and while close is not grossly outside the specs, I wouldn't fear getting the 5er for local usage. But I would start looking toward upgrading the truck before getting too ambitious on future trips.

[JIMNLIN]

We have a 2007 Dodge Ram 2500 quad cab, with a V8, 5.7 liter engine. It is a four wheel drive, and a long bed. We have done quite a few mods to it because we previously owned a Travel Lite truck camper (with no slides). We also upgraded the tires to E size tires. Along with that, we installed four Bilstein shocks and a Bilstein shock/damper, an additional leaf spring, a K&N filter, and a sway bar. Oh, and two air bags.

Welcome to the forum where some members have miles and years of towing experience and other do it a few times a year. You get answers from arm chair lawyers that are clueless of how motor vehicle weight laws work with roadside enforcement or in a civil court case. Like other more experienced members have said Dot or state don't enforce the trucks gvwr/gcwr or payload numbers. Just axle/tire load numbers.

Now the truck....good strong chassis with a 5200 fawr/6010 rawr = 11210 lbs of legal load carrying capacity and braking capacity. The chassis won't have any issues from a legal or safety standpoint for handling that size trailer.
IMO the 12 year old trucks weak area is the 5.7 Hemi HP/torque numbers when compared to the newer 5.7 hemi especially if the truck has large over size tires (diameter). I'm not saying the hemi won't pull it ...but don't be surprised if its slow in the hills and high head wind areas.
Moving up to 4.10 would get you about 230 more rpms.....4.56 gear will put you in the 2800-2900 rpm rangeat 60 mph with 32' tires.

If it was my truck I would get the camper and hit the road. Hell my old '87 2500 chevy 5.7 with 4.10 gears with a whoppin' 195 hp and 285 torque pulled a 8k 5th wheel all over the southern Rockies for 9 years.