Fifth wheel towing/truck capacity

[anaro]

Here's the story. We are looking at getting a new TH fiver. We currently have a Sabre fiver that weighs 12,300 lbs loaded. I know from catscale we have typically added 1500 lbs of stuff to our tt and to our fiver over the years. In figuring numbers I have allotted 2000 lbs for the next trailer (we have no toys but want the patio and extra bed).


These are my catscale numbers:
2014 Chevy Silverado 3500 (crew cab 4x4 duramax long bed LT package)
Truck specs
Gvwr 11,600 lbs
GCWR 24,500 lbs
GFAWR 5600 lbs
GRAWR 7050 lbs

Truck no trailer (reese 16k hitch in bed)--
Front axle 4900 lbs
Rear axle 3380 lbs
Total truck weight 8280 lbs
Available payload - 3320 lbs
Adjusted towing capacity- 16220 per numbers but manufacturer lists 16000 as my max so we will call it that.

Here is where I am confused. Does max towing capacity Apply to trailer gvwr or loaded trailer weight? We know we won't be loading these trailers to max, especially since I'm going to stay within rear gawr and payload.

For example one of the trailers I'm looking at is the Forest River vengeance 348A13. Sticker weight is 11,995 lbs. Gvwr is 16,398 lbs. Loaded would be 13,995 lbs. 23% pin weight would be 3218. This is within my limits but do I need to worry about gvwr being over? Thanks.

On edit- we are planning on upgrading to a 20k hitch.

[Norskeman]

anaro wrote:
Here's the story. We are looking at getting a new TH fiver. We currently have a Sabre fiver that weighs 12,300 lbs loaded. I know from catscale we have typically added 1500 lbs of stuff to our tt and to our fiver over the years. In figuring numbers I have allotted 2000 lbs for the next trailer (we have no toys but want the patio and extra bed).


These are my catscale numbers:
2014 Chevy Silverado 3500 (crew cab 4x4 duramax long bed LT package)
Truck specs
Gvwr 11,600 lbs
GCWR 24,500 lbs
GFAWR 5600 lbs
GRAWR 7050 lbs

Truck no trailer (reese 16k hitch in bed)--
Front axle 4900 lbs
Rear axle 3380 lbs
Total truck weight 8280 lbs
Available payload - 3320 lbs
Adjusted towing capacity- 16220 per numbers but manufacturer lists 16000 as my max so we will call it that.

Here is where I am confused. Does max towing capacity Apply to trailer gvwr or loaded trailer weight? We know we won't be loading these trailers to max, especially since I'm going to stay within rear gawr and payload.

For example one of the trailers I'm looking at is the Forest River vengeance 348A13. Sticker weight is 11,995 lbs. Gvwr is 16,398 lbs. Loaded would be 13,995 lbs. 23% pin weight would be 3218. This is within my limits but do I need to worry about gvwr being over? Thanks.

On edit- we are planning on upgrading to a 20k hitch.

I have a similar truck.

Here is may CAT scale - previous trailer.

Steer Axle - 4900 lbs
Drive Axle - 6060 lbs

Trailer Axle - 9220 lbs

Gross Weight - 20,180 lbs

Have not checked the weight of our new fifth wheel. It's shipping weight is about 1000 lbs more than our old one. So I expect to be closer to the GVWR of the truck.

I have air bags on the truck so it may shift a little more weight to the front axle. My truck weight is about 8100 lbs with me in it - tank full of fuel and hitch installed.

Mods that have been added that adds to the base weight of the truck:
Bed Rug bed liner, Luverne SS running boards, Air Lift LoadLifter 5000 air bags, Reese Custom Base and Rail Kit and Husky 16K hitch.

I did replace the head on my Husky hitch with the newer version after we purchased the 2017 fifth wheel. I had purchased the Husky hitch in 2003 when we went from a motor home to a fifth wheel and figured I would update it.

[anaro]

Thanks for the help and peace of mind.

[JIMNLIN]

Here is where I am confused. Does max towing capacity Apply to trailer gvwr or loaded trailer weight?

AS mentioned...Any trucks max tow capacity is a gross weight number. GVWR number doesn't tell all the story as you suggest.

Question is more do I need to legally worry about the unit's gvwr being over the trucks listed towing capacity if I am under that loaded?

Tow capacity or the trucks gvwr isn't used for any legal purpose out here in the world of trucking. RV's are the same.
Just stay under a the trucks axle/tire load numbers (rawr as its carrying just about all the load) ........or if your state has a registered weight of some type.

We have a toy hauler forum where someone probably has the same rig and maybe some actual weight numbers or advice/suggestions/etc. Ask the mod to move you over there for more input.

[Old-Biscuit]

anaro wrote:
The sticker weights are the off the line factory sticker on the actual unit not the brochure weight. Question is more do I need to legally worry about the unit's gvwr being over the trucks listed towing capacity if I am under that loaded?

NO!!

That 5th wheel will be a good match for your truck.

You have MORE GVWR, MORE RAWR and MORE Payload then my old 2007 3500 SRW and I comfortably tow a 13,873# scaled weight 5th wheel
I am over on trucks GVWR, at Rear Tire Max Load Ratings and under RAWR

[anaro]

The sticker weights are the off the line factory sticker on the actual unit not the brochure weight. Question is more do I need to legally worry about the unit's gvwr being over the trucks listed towing capacity if I am under that loaded?

[Second_Chance]

rhagfo wrote:

Second Chance wrote:
Forget max towing capacity. With a single rear wheel truck (which I assume from your 3,320 lbs. payload capacity), you will reach the rear axle capacity long before you max out on towing capacity. Use 25% of the trailer's GVWR to estimate loaded pin weight. If that number is more than what you have left for rear axle capacity (don't forget the weight of the hitch, too), it's too much trailer/not enough truck. A 16K fifth wheel will put about 4,000 lbs. on the pin when loaded - too much for a single rear wheel truck.

Rob

Did you
Totally read and understand what the OP was asking?

If the 5er one is looking at has a huge paylaod that you will only use less than half of.

I say the OP has good logic, it is not always the GVWR of the 5er being towed, but the actual towed weigh. He may have a good match for hi TV.

Perhaps not as carefully as I should have - but published sticker weights are notorious for being light. If he can keep the weights to what he projects, he'll be OK.

Rob

[anaro]

Thank you for your replies. I pretty much want to make sure I am legal going down the road.

It is a SRW. The sticker payload on the door jamb is 3905. The 3320 is after putting hitch in the bed, all family, dog and gear in truck with full tank of fuel.

I know ideal pin is 20-25%. Our current sabre runs 20% pin (per catscale weights). Knowing most of the TH storage is in the middle or rear of the trailer, I suspect 25% is a bit high on the pin weight. Like you I used to base estimates on gvwr but I know we won't be adding 4000 lbs to the trailer.

[rhagfo]

Second Chance wrote:
Forget max towing capacity. With a single rear wheel truck (which I assume from your 3,320 lbs. payload capacity), you will reach the rear axle capacity long before you max out on towing capacity. Use 25% of the trailer's GVWR to estimate loaded pin weight. If that number is more than what you have left for rear axle capacity (don't forget the weight of the hitch, too), it's too much trailer/not enough truck. A 16K fifth wheel will put about 4,000 lbs. on the pin when loaded - too much for a single rear wheel truck.

Rob

Did you
Totally read and understand what the OP was asking?

If the 5er one is looking at has a huge paylaod that you will only use less than half of.

I say the OP has good logic, it is not always the GVWR of the 5er being towed, but the actual towed weigh. He may have a good match for hi TV.

[Second_Chance]

Forget max towing capacity. With a single rear wheel truck (which I assume from your 3,320 lbs. payload capacity), you will reach the rear axle capacity long before you max out on towing capacity. Use 25% of the trailer's GVWR to estimate loaded pin weight. If that number is more than what you have left for rear axle capacity (don't forget the weight of the hitch, too), it's too much trailer/not enough truck. A 16K fifth wheel will put about 4,000 lbs. on the pin when loaded - too much for a single rear wheel truck.

Rob