Forum Discussion

sidney's avatar
sidney
Explorer
Jan 19, 2018

Front hydraulic landing gear settling

We have a 2014 Cedar Creek 5th wheel with the Lippert hydraulic 6 point leveling system.

Recently the front landing gear has started to settle slowly after being set up... approximately 1/8" per day. Also when the gear is retracted when towing the front left (curb side) landing gear will extend slowly about an inch after we have been towing all day.

I inspected the system and found no hydraulic fluid leaking anywhere.

I called Lippert to help troubleshoot and they said to make sure the hydraulic cartridge valve on the right side landing gear was fully closed by turning counter clockwise with a 5/32 allen wrench. I was able to turn the valve about 1/4 turn or so but I don't know yet if it has fixed the problem. (I don't think so)

I'm afraid we may have an internal leak in the front left jack assembly. Lippert told me they do not sell parts to rebuild the jack assembly... if there is an internal leak I would need to buy a whole new jack assembly... they are very expensive and a pain to remove.

What if I do nothing and continue to re-level every few days? Are we risking a dangerous failure?
I was thinking of using more leveling blocks under the pads so we would only need to extend the jacks a couple on inches. That way if it did start settling faster the front could only lower a couple of inches.

Anyone have experience with this same problem?

What options do I have?

Thanks
  • oldbird1965's avatar
    oldbird1965
    Explorer
    Jan 19, 2018
    I read on another forum that if you get connected to your truck to run them up and down a few times. Don't put any weight on them, this is suppose to seat some seal in the jacks and you should be good for awhile. Just what I read!
  • sidney's avatar
    sidney
    Explorer
    Jan 19, 2018
    oldbird1965 wrote:
    I read on another forum that if you get connected to your truck to run them up and down a few times. Don't put any weight on them, this is suppose to seat some seal in the jacks and you should be good for awhile. Just what I read!


    Thanks

    I will definitely give that a try.
  • NC_Hauler's avatar
    NC_Hauler
    Explorer
    Jan 19, 2018
    You may have a High Pressure seal going bad. The cylinder can be removed and seal replaced. The symptoms you describe are those of a HP SEAL deteriorating. You can try some of the things others say, but if the jack continues to collapse some under pressure, or dip down slowly while up... it’s probably HP seal. People who repair cylinders\rams can replace seal if you don’t want to replace the entire cylinder. When front gets really bad. it can cause slides to act up, as well as other rams. I know from experience. Two replaced front rams on LCI 6 ram auto leveling system on my unit.

    Jim
  • sidney's avatar
    sidney
    Explorer
    Jan 19, 2018
    NC Hauler wrote:
    You may have a High Pressure seal going bad. The cylinder can be removed and seal replaced. The symptoms you describe are those of a HP SEAL deteriorating. You can try some of the things others say, but if the jack continues to collapse some under pressure, or dip down slowly while up... it’s probably HP seal. People who repair cylinders\rams can replace seal if you don’t want to replace the entire cylinder. When front gets really bad. it can cause slides to act up, as well as other rams. I know from experience. Two replaced front rams on LCI 6 ram auto leveling system on my unit.

    Jim


    Thanks Jim

    Did you have the whole jack assemblies replaced or rebuilt?

    Did you have the same problems... settling and extending while retracted?
  • NC_Hauler's avatar
    NC_Hauler
    Explorer
    Jan 19, 2018
    sidney wrote:
    NC Hauler wrote:
    You may have a High Pressure seal going bad. The cylinder can be removed and seal replaced. The symptoms you describe are those of a HP SEAL deteriorating. You can try some of the things others say, but if the jack continues to collapse some under pressure, or dip down slowly while up... it’s probably HP seal. People who repair cylinders\rams can replace seal if you don’t want to replace the entire cylinder. When front gets really bad. it can cause slides to act up, as well as other rams. I know from experience. Two replaced front rams on LCI 6 ram auto leveling system on my unit.

    Jim


    Thanks Jim

    Did you have the whole jack assemblies replaced or rebuilt?

    Did you have the same problems... settling and extending while retracted?


    I had same issue, and more... slide drifting out, back rams slowly dropping when up. ALL ISSUES CAUSED BY BAD HP SEAL FAILURE IN FRONT RAM, causing fluid to seep past seal. Did weird things. Lippert replaced both front Rams. I had front jacks creeping down until mine actually dropped. Front end of 5er nose down... no damage.. unit didn’t hit ground.. though close. I also had jack creeping down when towing . Lippert even told me that there was an issue with HP seal in front rams. I have a pin weight of 4200#, unit loaded to 18,300#
    with a GVW of 19K. Two front rams were replaced with new, more robust rams... mine was covered under warranty.

    Jim
  • laknox's avatar
    laknox
    Nomad
    Jan 19, 2018
    I agree that it sounds like an internal ram seal, but there =are= other causes, though they tend to be localized to one ram. You can get contamination in the valve seats, which can cause these issues, and which LCI is wont to blame, so they can sell you an entire new hydro system. They also don't tell you about internal leaks so they can sell you entire ram assemblies. Any decent hydraulic shop can test cylinders and tell you if you've got a leak, and can almost always do it without having to remove anything but the appropriate hoses. Now, LCI =may= step up and replace the jacks under warranty, but they may not.

    Lyle
  • NC_Hauler's avatar
    NC_Hauler
    Explorer
    Jan 19, 2018
    laknox wrote:
    I agree that it sounds like an internal ram seal, but there =are= other causes, though they tend to be localized to one ram. You can get contamination in the valve seats, which can cause these issues, and which LCI is wont to blame, so they can sell you an entire new hydro system. They also don't tell you about internal leaks so they can sell you entire ram assemblies. Any decent hydraulic shop can test cylinders and tell you if you've got a leak, and can almost always do it without having to remove anything but the appropriate hoses. Now, LCI =may= step up and replace the jacks under warranty, but they may not.

    Lyle


    I did tell him that seals can be replaced where hydraulic rams are repaired. It may be easier said than done to find someone who can do this. I spent , some years back as an Enginerr and Maintenance Supervisor, 2 weeks traing in tear down, repair and maintenance on pneumatic and hydraulic rams. Rebuilt many over the years You really need to make sure you find a person that knows what they’re doing.
    Poppets, manifolds and valves can be cleaned.. that’s the easy part.

    Jim
  • ACZL's avatar
    ACZL
    Explorer
    Jan 19, 2018
    Repair places: A CAT, John Deere, CASE IH dealer. If unsure where to find them in your neck of the woods, contact your local hiway dep't or NAPA.
  • sidney's avatar
    sidney
    Explorer
    Jan 19, 2018
    Thanks for the replies.

    I'm monitoring the settling for the next couple of days.

    Checking to see if the fluid level in the reservoir changes after settling a inch or more. If it rises I'm guessing its a bad cartridge valve on the right jack.

    So far today the front landing gear hasn't settled at all. Typically it would have settled a measurable amount by now.

    Keeping my fingers crossed... maybe when I tightened the set screw on the cartridge valve it fixed the problem but took a day to have an effect.
  • TWZMYJP's avatar
    TWZMYJP
    Explorer
    Jan 25, 2018
    Is it common practice to utilize some sort of cribbing or other fixed stand once you're leveled, particularly on the front portion of the trailer, in the event the hydraulic jacks fail? I'm new to these hydraulic leveling systems and the idea of it seems a little spooky...

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