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Gas milage for a diesel / gas engine

etcssw
Explorer
Explorer
Here's my request, I need people that own fifth wheel trailers to let me know about their gas mileage. I presently have a toyota tundra when I'm not towing anything I get about 20 miles to the gallon but when I'm towing my TT the gas mileage drops to 9 miles to the gallon. NOW WE ALL KNOW that truck sales men will tell you that their truck gets a million miles to the gallon which we know isn't true. So if you have a fifth wheel trailer please tell me which truck you tow with and is it gas or diesel and what your gas mileage is. This will help my wife and I to pick the correct truck and fifth wheel to buy.
117 REPLIES 117

gtsum
Explorer
Explorer
all the talk about recouping the cost of a diesel and the mpg gain is a moot point imo. Nothing is cheap these days (gas, food, toys, ATV's, dinner and movie, etc)...least of all RV's, camping in general, and vehicles. If you want a diesel, buy a diesel..if you want a gasser, buy a gasser...but to justify one or the other by doing math on mpg's when the breakeven point is, well....you just as well stay home and not travel and camp if the money is that tight imo. Otherwise why not just get a 10k pop up and tow it with a minivan? (which is perfectly fine too...been there and done that before).

Spending 40-50-60-70k on a fiver likely necessitates a capable truck (and gassers are certainly more than capable in most instances), but just like I prefer a truck loaded with all options and creature comforts and will pay for it, the same is true of a diesel. I wanted it and was willing to pay for it..if I get my money back when I sell it, great...if not, oh well. I will enjoy the ride in the meantime.

To the point of the thread, I have a whopping 500 miles on my Cummins so far...70/30 city and I am at 17.1mpg....my 2013 Ram 1500 Hemi was around 14 same driving
2015 Fuzion 345 Chrome
2014 Ram Megacab 3500 CTD Laramie

Me_Again
Explorer III
Explorer III
TammerToe, the new gen of HO gas engines carry a 1.5 to 2K delta over the standard gassers. So the old 10K difference for a diesel is has gone down a bit vs the "Big"(sic) gasser!

For RAM the 6.4 Hemi is $1495 and the 6.7 Diesel is $7995! A $6500 difference.

Step up to the HO Diesel and Aisin, and you drop another $2795, and now we are getting close to the old 10K number, but the tow ratings are not even close.

Chris
2021 F150 2.7 Ecoboost - Summer Home 2017 Bighorn 3575el. Can Am Spyder RT-L Chrome, Kawasaki KRX1000. Retired and enjoying it! RIP DW 07-05-2021

hmar1
Explorer
Explorer
I have a2014 Ram 3500 dually diesel and pull a 2014 Montana 3900 FB average 11.5 mpg in Arkansas mountains and hills

HammerToe
Explorer
Explorer
Here’s ‘The Bottom Line’ (I.M.O.):

1. If 'The Math' with respect to 'How Much Truck' you need 'says' you 'NEED' a Diesel, buy a Diesel. (Study the truck manufacturer's towing guidelines).

2. If (1) (above) is NOT TRUE: If 'The Math' says that you don't NEED a Diesel but 'you're close' (say running upwards of 85%-90% or more of the truck's tow capacity *AND* you will be towing 'a fair bit to a lot of (the) time' in hilly/mountainous terrain, then you might *consider* upgrading to/buying a diesel.

3. If you plan on *towing* A *LOT* (*many* 10's of thousands of miles AT LEAST), you might consider buying a diesel even if you don't actually/technically NEED one.

4. If you just simply WANT a diesel/price is no object, then buy a diesel.

5. OTHERWISE, buy a Gaser.

Yes, *in comparison with* gasers that are towing trailers within the truck manufacturer's towing guidelines (i.e 'apples to apples'), diesels WILL get better MPG and the towing *experience* will be nicer. ***BUT*** it generally is REALLY HARD to recoup the additional initial purchase cost and maintenance costs in actual fuel savings. (And 'Gawd Help You' should you need repairs with a D.).

I spent an ENORMOUS amount of time trying to decide how much truck to buy back in '08 when I picked up new Cougar 291RLS 5er (advertised at 8125 lbs dry, with a normal tow weight probably in the 9000 to 9500 lb range (I always tow/travel with full water).

Did SERIOUS math/research.

Math showed I would have to ACTUALLY *TOW* BETWEEN 70,000 and 200,000 MILES to recoup the cost of the D. on fuel savings.

You can buy an AWFUL LOT of gas for the $8,000 to $10,000 premium that a (new!) diesel would cost.

For example: just to get a VERY ROUGH, 'BACK OF THE ENVELOPE', 'BALLPARK' FEEL for this:

Assume that both diesel and gasoline cost $4.00 per gallon. (CURRENTLY (I checked), gas looks like it is between 5% and 10% less BUT 'lets assume'):

$10,000 will buy 2,500 gallons of *fuel*.

At 10 MPG,(either fuel), the cost per mile will be $0.40 (40 cents) for fuel.

At 13 MPG (e.g. diesel), the cost per mile would be $0.40 * 10/13 ~= 31 cents per mile. (Let's say 30 cents per mile, to be generous IN FAVOR OF the diesel).

That's a saving of 10 cents per mile.

BUT: you paid (assumption) $10,000.00 MORE for the Diesel SO (*in this example*) it would take *ROUGHLY* 100,000 miles of TOWING to get your $.$$ back. (The actual cost per mile was about $30.8 for a savings of 9.2 cents per mile AND, as mentioned, gas is currently 5% - 10% less 'on average' (I checked) which would make it take even LONGER to 'get ones money' back.

Modern gasers, ESPECIALLY with DFI (Direct Fuel Injection, which tends to bring diesels TYPICAL fuel economy advantage down, especially when running lightly loaded, to around 15%) get pretty darn good fuel economy (relatively speaking). Diesels tend to WEIGH MORE and 'stop and go driving' tends to eat into their fuel economy advantage also. And, as mentioned, there the maintenance and (possible) repair side to worry about. (Oh. and diesel don't tend to make as nice a 'Daily Driver' as a (generally lighter; say 1/2 ton gasser (if that's a possibility), especially in colder winter weather, and DON'T 'make Heat' as much/fast)

One can 'drive oneself nuts' agonizing over this.

Personally, I wound up with an '05 GMC Sierra 4x4 Crew Cab 4:10 gears - tow capacity 9,900 lbs - and I don't regret my decision.

In the end, I followed (sssshhhh! Consumer Report's recommendation): "All the vehicles tested" (in '07-08 somewhere - 1/2 ton Gasser's and 3/4 ton diesels) "will tow their Maximum Rated Loads *ADEQUATELY*.

If 'Adequately' ain't good enough for you, then 'upgrade'.

I don't drive 'FAST'. I generally tow around 55 MPH '4-lane' (ya gotta be able to STOP these things once in awhile, and then ST tires aren't really rated for high(er) speeds), 'drive the speed limit' 2-lane) and on mostly flat/slightly rolling terrain, I AVERAGE about 9.75 MPG (U.S.) and I HAVE on occasion gotten as high as 11.25 MPG.

Hope this helps.

huron52
Explorer
Explorer
I don't really want to muddy the water here but I am going to throw this in. I have a Sport touring motorcycle. (Yamaha FJR) It gets very good mileage for it's size and power. I have just gotten into the 5th wheel camping life.
Going on a vacation same amount of time away, the costs are about the same.

Why is that you say?

The motorcycle gets good gas mileage but we have to stop at restaurants and stop at hotels.
The 5th wheel yes uses more diesel but we buy food for the trip and stop at rest stops to eat and camp in campgrounds at far less than a hotel.

It's a wash!

Now would I use a gas powered truck to pull my 5th wheel.... no way!
2006 Dodge quad cab RAM 3500 drw 4X4 6 speed stick
2007 Fleetwood Redline 335 Toy Hauler

mountainsam
Explorer
Explorer
I am grossing about 19K and on the highway, nice and flat I get 13 to 14 with my 05 cummins stock. In the mountains I am getting 10 - 11. I keep the tack around 2000. Not breaking any speed laws and getting decent mileage. Leaving in two weeks for what will be a 10,000 mile trip over 6 weeks. With todays fuel prices a small savings on fuel can pay for the night in an rv park.
2017 Thor Gemini 23TR w/ 3.2 Power Stroke turbo diesel
2014 Ram 6.7 Cummins Turbo Diesel Crew Cab, Long Bed 4X4 6 Speed Auto (sold)
2013 Rockwood Signature 8281 WS w/Sidewinder Pin (sold)
DW and Sofie our Black Lab /Boxer and Phoebe our Schnoodle

Cummins12V98
Explorer III
Explorer III
rhagfo wrote:
rthibodaux wrote:
This kinda get under my skin, most people know when you are towing and have a big diesel or gas truck mileage ain't going to be good. To me some things you can't just worry about. Sorry If I sound rude but that's my 2 cents.


Well I don't think many of us like throwing money away,many of those that like gas, tow light enough that it doesn't matter.
When you get bigger, gas mileage goes down and engine really needs to work hard, yes I know gassers love to rev, but as the revs go up, the MPG goes down.
Diesels have torque and HP, many will tell you torque is nothing, but it is what allows a 270 hp 5.9 Cummins diesel pull a 11,000# 5er up 6% grades at 60 mph with 3.55 gears.

I can't imagine what a new one with 385 HP and 850# of torque would pull like.
All that and good mileage.
Sorry I am a bit biased.


My weak 350/800 Cummins with 3:42's pulls 6% at 55 with 28K combined load. Really sucks!
2015 RAM LongHorn 3500 Dually CrewCab 4X4 CUMMINS/AISIN RearAir 385HP/865TQ 4:10's
37,800# GCVWR "Towing Beast"

"HeavyWeight" B&W RVK3600

2016 MobileSuites 39TKSB3 highly "Elited" In the stable

2007.5 Mobile Suites 36 SB3 29,000# Combined SOLD

rhagfo
Explorer III
Explorer III
rthibodaux wrote:
This kinda get under my skin, most people know when you are towing and have a big diesel or gas truck mileage ain't going to be good. To me some things you can't just worry about. Sorry If I sound rude but that's my 2 cents.


Well I don't think many of us like throwing money away,many of those that like gas, tow light enough that it doesn't matter.
When you get bigger, gas mileage goes down and engine really needs to work hard, yes I know gassers love to rev, but as the revs go up, the MPG goes down.
Diesels have torque and HP, many will tell you torque is nothing, but it is what allows a 270 hp 5.9 Cummins diesel pull a 11,000# 5er up 6% grades at 60 mph with 3.55 gears.

I can't imagine what a new one with 385 HP and 850# of torque would pull like.
All that and good mileage.
Sorry I am a bit biased.
Russ & Paula the Beagle Belle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 Aisin DRW 4X4 Long bed.
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS, 32' GVWR 12,360#

"Visit and Enjoy Oregon State Parks"

rthibodaux
Explorer
Explorer
This kinda get under my skin, most people know when you are towing and have a big diesel or gas truck mileage ain't going to be good. To me some things you can't just worry about. Sorry If I sound rude but that's my 2 cents.

jujububbajr
Explorer
Explorer
True, but if I buy a diesel next time Im still down $8k. Nothing wrong with either. It's perfectly ok to tow with a gasser or disesel depending on your needs. For me, gas is perfect.
GoPackGo wrote:
JUJUBUBBAJR - I am not disputing your basic argument that a gas engine makes more sense under a lot of circumstances, but one thing you need to factor into your math is the fact that you would get a certain percentage of that $8000 back when you sell or trade. Using your figures, your breakeven point will be lower then 61,500 miles; My SWAG would be around 50% lower.
2004 Ram 3500 2wd Dually
2015 Grand Design Reflection 303RLS

GoPackGo
Explorer
Explorer
JUJUBUBBAJR - I am not disputing your basic argument that a gas engine makes more sense under a lot of circumstances, but one thing you need to factor into your math is the fact that you would get a certain percentage of that $8000 back when you sell or trade. Using your figures, your breakeven point will be lower then 61,500 miles; My SWAG would be around 50% lower.

Cummins12V98
Explorer III
Explorer III
rhagfo wrote:
Cummins12V98 wrote:
rhagfo wrote:
Well it seems for all the the reports diesel still has better mileage and by a good bit. The intresting part is comments like it does ok or I am fine with it for gassers. I tow 11,000# with my 01 Cummins. It has a small chip maybe 260 to 270hp, with 3.55's I am technicaly about 3,500# over my GCVW at 19,500#, but have no issues in hills or flat. All that an 12 to 13 mpg towing and 20 mpg highway 14 to 15 mpg city. Yes I am impressed how well a 14 year old 270,000 mile diesel runs and pulls!


Throw in a set of stock Bosch 275 RV injectors. Your mileage will improve and performance.


Sitting on the shelf in the garage, just waiting for the right spring day to get installed.


Same thing when you have a 12V with an auto, stick in a set of Bosch stock 215 injectors. I did with my 12V and increased mileage by 1 mpg+.
2015 RAM LongHorn 3500 Dually CrewCab 4X4 CUMMINS/AISIN RearAir 385HP/865TQ 4:10's
37,800# GCVWR "Towing Beast"

"HeavyWeight" B&W RVK3600

2016 MobileSuites 39TKSB3 highly "Elited" In the stable

2007.5 Mobile Suites 36 SB3 29,000# Combined SOLD

jujububbajr
Explorer
Explorer
I have a TT I've towed with both a 5.9 CTD and now a 6.0 vortec. TT weighs 9k lbs. CTD got 10 mpg hand calculated. Vortec gets 7 mpg hand calculated. Diesel here is $3.70 gas is $3.50. New diesel truck cost about $8k more. For every 100 miles it costs me $50 in gas. For every 100 miles it would cost me $37 in diesel. $8000/$13 (savings per 100 miles)=615*100= I would have to tow my TT 61,500 miles to break even. I tow 3-4k miles a year. I save money with gas. Every hill my truck downshifts to maintain 65 mph my diesel did too. If I were towing heavier or many more miles, I'd stay with diesel. If your under 12k lbs and a weekend camper a newer gas truck is perfect.
2004 Ram 3500 2wd Dually
2015 Grand Design Reflection 303RLS

rhagfo
Explorer III
Explorer III
Cummins12V98 wrote:
rhagfo wrote:
Well it seems for all the the reports diesel still has better mileage and by a good bit. The intresting part is comments like it does ok or I am fine with it for gassers. I tow 11,000# with my 01 Cummins. It has a small chip maybe 260 to 270hp, with 3.55's I am technicaly about 3,500# over my GCVW at 19,500#, but have no issues in hills or flat. All that an 12 to 13 mpg towing and 20 mpg highway 14 to 15 mpg city. Yes I am impressed how well a 14 year old 270,000 mile diesel runs and pulls!


Throw in a set of stock Bosch 275 RV injectors. Your mileage will improve and performance.


Sitting on the shelf in the garage, just waiting for the right spring day to get installed.
Russ & Paula the Beagle Belle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 Aisin DRW 4X4 Long bed.
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS, 32' GVWR 12,360#

"Visit and Enjoy Oregon State Parks"

Cummins12V98
Explorer III
Explorer III
28K combined border to border West Coast I-5 towing 9.5 hand calc AVERAGE. I tow at 60-62 mph. 2011 HO RAM Dually 3:42 gears 6 sp auto. Anyone claiming more than that at that weight is full of Barbara Streisand IMHO.
2015 RAM LongHorn 3500 Dually CrewCab 4X4 CUMMINS/AISIN RearAir 385HP/865TQ 4:10's
37,800# GCVWR "Towing Beast"

"HeavyWeight" B&W RVK3600

2016 MobileSuites 39TKSB3 highly "Elited" In the stable

2007.5 Mobile Suites 36 SB3 29,000# Combined SOLD