Hung Walls ?

Bachus wrote:
We are thinking about a new Montana High Country. Keystone sent us the name of our local dealer, and he immediately tried to steer us to something by Forest River, because of the hung walls in the Montana. Here's what he said in his e-mail:

Yes the Crusader has the edge on construction over the High Country. All walls in the Crusader, including the slide-out sidewalls, are laminated. The High Country is what is known as a hung wall. To tell the difference push on the walls with your hands, the hung wall will move, the laminated one won’t budge even if you give it a thump. This tells you one thing, why the hung wall moves is because there is air behind it in front of the insulation and where there is air there will eventually be moisture and where moisture that cannot vapour off because it is trapped you inevitably get mould forming. The laminated wall is visibly stronger. In the High Country when we sold them both the rear wall and the slide-out sidewalls were all hung. On any RV you may look at in the future, check these walls. If hung, they will give quite easily.

Does he make a valid point, or is he just trying to sell his preferred line?

I have never seen a Montana with hung walls, mine certainly is not.
His explanation is somewhat misleading.
Yes laminated walls feel firm to the touch and in most cases can not be pushed in with your hand where a hung wall will have some give because it's hung on the wall studs which are 16" apart.
However, the hung wall in most cases and varies by the manufacturer will be stronger because the base frame and wall framing will be much stronger than a laminated wall.
Also when there is water intrusion on a laminated wall the water tends to sit in the wall where a hung wall will run down to the floor.
Both will have damage if not corrected.

Really none of this matters if you never have to repair a wall with delam damage because that is where the BIG differance is.
Repair/replaceing a hung wall is a lot less expensive than a laminated wall.

We are thinking about a new Montana High Country. Keystone sent us the name of our local dealer, and he immediately tried to steer us to something by Forest River, because of the hung walls in the Montana. Here's what he said in his e-mail:

Yes the Crusader has the edge on construction over the High Country. All walls in the Crusader, including the slide-out sidewalls, are laminated. The High Country is what is known as a hung wall. To tell the difference push on the walls with your hands, the hung wall will move, the laminated one won’t budge even if you give it a thump. This tells you one thing, why the hung wall moves is because there is air behind it in front of the insulation and where there is air there will eventually be moisture and where moisture that cannot vapour off because it is trapped you inevitably get mould forming. The laminated wall is visibly stronger. In the High Country when we sold them both the rear wall and the slide-out sidewalls were all hung. On any RV you may look at in the future, check these walls. If hung, they will give quite easily.

Does he make a valid point, or is he just trying to sell his preferred line?

And the point of all this is??

Dave & Ginny wrote:
I've had both types of walls over the years and I wouldn't go back to a laminated wall. There's a reason why the entry level units have laminated walls....they're cheap to produce.

Yes the manufactures will show a truck driving over a section of laminated wall to show the strength but ideally you don't have trucks driving over your walls. Funny, these same manufactures never show a truck driving over the floors...why? The floors (frames) go through more stress over years of travel. Most hung walls have better interior backing so hanging pictures or finding backing for shades or other items is much easier.

The most important part of the RV isn't the wall anyway....in my opinion it's the frame and suspensions that the walls connect to. Frames tend to flex not the walls. Usually when the manufactures are focusing your attention on the walls it's because they're diverting your attention from more important items.

Most semi van trailers don't even have frames under them. It's all supported by the shell of the trailer. Bottom line is it's all in how the whole is designed to work together not just one part of the system. BTW, my Lam wall 5er is NOT an entry level 5er. Matter of fact my entry level 5er that I started with had hung walls.;)

I've had both types of walls over the years and I wouldn't go back to a laminated wall. There's a reason why the entry level units have laminated walls....they're cheap to produce.

Yes the manufactures will show a truck driving over a section of laminated wall to show the strength but ideally you don't have trucks driving over your walls. Funny, these same manufactures never show a truck driving over the floors...why? The floors (frames) go through more stress over years of travel. Most hung walls have better interior backing so hanging pictures or finding backing for shades or other items is much easier.

The most important part of the RV isn't the wall anyway....in my opinion it's the frame and suspensions that the walls connect to. Frames tend to flex not the walls. Usually when the manufactures are focusing your attention on the walls it's because they're diverting your attention from more important items.

ckwizard777 wrote:

transamz9 wrote:

rmalik1 wrote:

transamz9 wrote:

goducks10 wrote:
So if there's Luan backing on a hung wall system, what's to keep the Luan from separating from the fiberglass should there be a leak? The fiberglass exterior is glued to the Luan, so the only adhesion is where the Luan meets the stud. I don't see it as delam proof. Still trying to figure out why hung walls are superior.

IMO they are not. If anything to me they are not as good. Fiberglass insulation will settle over time especially bouncing down the road. Lam walls also are much stronger for the weight. I am in industrial and commercial construction and we use Lam panels a lot on our projects (at customers request) and they are very strong and last very well compared to other processes. In the RV industry the biggest problem I see with their methods is that they use a backer (Luan)that is not resistant to water intrusion. The panels don't necessarily de-lam. The Luan gets wet and separates which causes the blister look. This can and will also happen with a hung wall using Luan as a backer. The problem with hung walls is that the Fiberglass insulation will also wick the water that gets in and make other problems.;)

My take on the subject is that repairs if needed make it a superior construction method over non-repairable laminated walls.
The other thing that I wanted to see as the original poster is I wanted to see if mostly the better constructed and better built 5'ers used this method - aka DRV, Excel, Lifestyle even New Horizon.

IMO and it is my opinion that the units that you call better built are actually more expensive because they are more expensive to build not "better built". It cost more to build hung walls. More labor intensive and more hard materials. A lot of people say that the less expensive coaches use cheaper and lighter frames but in all reality the one piece lam walls are structurally stronger than hung walls also lighter so less frame is needed.

This is completely wrong,
Units with hung wall construction use a stronger frame with more aluminum content for the wall to adhere to. (Excell used wood)
In comparison laminated walls are strong but use much less frame so the rig ends up seeing much more frame flex and the problems that it causes because of it.

A lam wall is part of the frame. A lam wall is much stronger in all directions than a hung wall. A Lam wall spreads the load through the whole wall as a hung wall has the load applied to the welded joints in the wall's frame. A lam wall needs less frame strength.

transamz9 wrote:

rmalik1 wrote:

transamz9 wrote:

goducks10 wrote:
So if there's Luan backing on a hung wall system, what's to keep the Luan from separating from the fiberglass should there be a leak? The fiberglass exterior is glued to the Luan, so the only adhesion is where the Luan meets the stud. I don't see it as delam proof. Still trying to figure out why hung walls are superior.

IMO they are not. If anything to me they are not as good. Fiberglass insulation will settle over time especially bouncing down the road. Lam walls also are much stronger for the weight. I am in industrial and commercial construction and we use Lam panels a lot on our projects (at customers request) and they are very strong and last very well compared to other processes. In the RV industry the biggest problem I see with their methods is that they use a backer (Luan)that is not resistant to water intrusion. The panels don't necessarily de-lam. The Luan gets wet and separates which causes the blister look. This can and will also happen with a hung wall using Luan as a backer. The problem with hung walls is that the Fiberglass insulation will also wick the water that gets in and make other problems.;)

My take on the subject is that repairs if needed make it a superior construction method over non-repairable laminated walls.
The other thing that I wanted to see as the original poster is I wanted to see if mostly the better constructed and better built 5'ers used this method - aka DRV, Excel, Lifestyle even New Horizon.

IMO and it is my opinion that the units that you call better built are actually more expensive because they are more expensive to build not "better built". It cost more to build hung walls. More labor intensive and more hard materials. A lot of people say that the less expensive coaches use cheaper and lighter frames but in all reality the one piece lam walls are structurally stronger than hung walls also lighter so less frame is needed.

This is completely wrong,
Units with hung wall construction use a stronger frame with more aluminum content for the wall to adhere to. (Excell used wood)
In comparison laminated walls are strong but use much less frame so the rig ends up seeing much more frame flex and the problems that it causes because of it.

rmalik1 wrote:

transamz9 wrote:

goducks10 wrote:
So if there's Luan backing on a hung wall system, what's to keep the Luan from separating from the fiberglass should there be a leak? The fiberglass exterior is glued to the Luan, so the only adhesion is where the Luan meets the stud. I don't see it as delam proof. Still trying to figure out why hung walls are superior.

IMO they are not. If anything to me they are not as good. Fiberglass insulation will settle over time especially bouncing down the road. Lam walls also are much stronger for the weight. I am in industrial and commercial construction and we use Lam panels a lot on our projects (at customers request) and they are very strong and last very well compared to other processes. In the RV industry the biggest problem I see with their methods is that they use a backer (Luan)that is not resistant to water intrusion. The panels don't necessarily de-lam. The Luan gets wet and separates which causes the blister look. This can and will also happen with a hung wall using Luan as a backer. The problem with hung walls is that the Fiberglass insulation will also wick the water that gets in and make other problems.;)

My take on the subject is that repairs if needed make it a superior construction method over non-repairable laminated walls.
The other thing that I wanted to see as the original poster is I wanted to see if mostly the better constructed and better built 5'ers used this method - aka DRV, Excel, Lifestyle even New Horizon.

Found out that New Horizon uses laminated sidewall

The Silverbacks by CC that I've seen show every stud when in the right light. Since the wall is only attached at each stud you can see the ripples all down the wall. I drive by one fairly often that's parked facing north in a storage yard. I can see the wavy walls pretty easy. Last year we stayed at a CG and a Silverback was camped there too. Walking by I pointed out to my wife how wavy it looks.

I'm sure it's not a problem, just an aesthetic thing. Since the wall is only fastened at the studs it leaves the rest of the wall floating.

FWIW Silverbacks are still on our short list. Great bang for the buck IMO.

rmalik1 wrote:

transamz9 wrote:

goducks10 wrote:
So if there's Luan backing on a hung wall system, what's to keep the Luan from separating from the fiberglass should there be a leak? The fiberglass exterior is glued to the Luan, so the only adhesion is where the Luan meets the stud. I don't see it as delam proof. Still trying to figure out why hung walls are superior.

IMO they are not. If anything to me they are not as good. Fiberglass insulation will settle over time especially bouncing down the road. Lam walls also are much stronger for the weight. I am in industrial and commercial construction and we use Lam panels a lot on our projects (at customers request) and they are very strong and last very well compared to other processes. In the RV industry the biggest problem I see with their methods is that they use a backer (Luan)that is not resistant to water intrusion. The panels don't necessarily de-lam. The Luan gets wet and separates which causes the blister look. This can and will also happen with a hung wall using Luan as a backer. The problem with hung walls is that the Fiberglass insulation will also wick the water that gets in and make other problems.;)

My take on the subject is that repairs if needed make it a superior construction method over non-repairable laminated walls.
The other thing that I wanted to see as the original poster is I wanted to see if mostly the better constructed and better built 5'ers used this method - aka DRV, Excel, Lifestyle even New Horizon.

IMO and it is my opinion that the units that you call better built are actually more expensive because they are more expensive to build not "better built". It cost more to build hung walls. More labor intensive and more hard materials. A lot of people say that the less expensive coaches use cheaper and lighter frames but in all reality the one piece lam walls are structurally stronger than hung walls also lighter so less frame is needed.