Keystone Design Issues

[moman1]

OK, I need to vent a few frustrations with Keystone. We just purchased a new Fuzion and noticed (after we purchased) some design flaws that we think are ridiculous. My thought is that if I vent on here, someone else will read it be able to explain to me the thought process Keystone had when designing their RVs and make me feel better about them. Here we go:
1. Why in the hell would you make a toy hauler that is more than likely going to be dry camping (toys right?) have a fridge on the outside that can only be used when connected to shore power? Mind numbing!!!
2. Why is the central DVD unit (should be a Blu-ray, but that's on another thread) not able to push the DVD movie to all the other TVs in the trailer?
3. Why are there four different connections for the sat tv/cable input? I shouldn't have to go outside and move the cable input to the bedroom connection to watch cable in our bedroom. I can go to an antique store to purchase a three way splitter and have it go to all TVs for about $5.

Sorry for the rant. But for over $100k MSRP in 2018, I'd expect much more. For less than $100 (and that's being very generous) all of these issues could have been addressed. I have written Keystone, just waiting on a response. Thanks for listening/reading.

Kevin

[nayther]

DiskDoctr wrote:
If any mfr put all this great stuff in their RV from the factory, what would we have to talk about? Mods are a very big part of the customization many of us do. LOL.

Don't be afraid to customize your rig. Make it exactly what YOU want it to be and suit YOUR needs.

Nice thing about it, in the price range you purchased, there aren't many mods out of your financial reach- even if you want to pay someone else to do it for you.

Just remember, you gotta show us pics or tell us about your results of your favorite ones! It's how we all learn and share :C

Totally agree, there are none made that hit all your points. Find a rig that has the basic floor plan and amenities, then tweak it to your liking. Lord knows I've done a LOT of mods to the one I'll be selling, won't get anything for them but might help move it faster.

[moman1]

DiskDoctr wrote:
If any mfr put all this great stuff in their RV from the factory, what would we have to talk about? Mods are a very big part of the customization many of us do. LOL.

Don't be afraid to customize your rig. Make it exactly what YOU want it to be and suit YOUR needs.

Nice thing about it, in the price range you purchased, there aren't many mods out of your financial reach- even if you want to pay someone else to do it for you.

Just remember, you gotta show us pics or tell us about your results of your favorite ones! It's how we all learn and share :C

Good points.

[DiskDoctr]

If any mfr put all this great stuff in their RV from the factory, what would we have to talk about? Mods are a very big part of the customization many of us do. LOL.

Don't be afraid to customize your rig. Make it exactly what YOU want it to be and suit YOUR needs.

Nice thing about it, in the price range you purchased, there aren't many mods out of your financial reach- even if you want to pay someone else to do it for you.

Just remember, you gotta show us pics or tell us about your results of your favorite ones! It's how we all learn and share :C

[moman1]

TWZMYJP wrote:
OP - sounds like your frustrations have been pretty well responded to so I won't continue to beat that horse, but I'll add a couple of my own "WTF Keystone?!" issues with the purchase of our 2018 Carbon:

1. The water pump draws water from the SIDE of the fresh water tank, with no suction hose or anything actually into the tank. Just a plastic nipple glued to the side of the tank, with PEX tubing running from that nipple up to the water pump. Doesn't sound like that big of a deal until you realize that the nipple is approximately 3/4" up the sidewall of the tank, and is roughly 1/2" in diameter. So that means once you have anything less than 1-1/4" of standing water in the tank, your pump loses prime and you are effectively out of water. Again, no big deal it would seem until you look at the layout of your fresh water tank, which is very long and wide but not very deep because it has to fit between the frame rails of the trailer. Ultimately, you're left with about 30 gallons of water in the tank that you simply can't get to?! WTF Keystone??!!

2. The main control panel for the interior lighting, generator, tank levels, etc is nice and centrally located in the entertainment center, a few steps inside the trailer straight ahead of the entry door. Works great until you get back to the trailer when it's pitch black outside (and thus inside as well) and you have to fumble around inside looking for the right switch to flip on an interior light, which inevitably happens after you have poked pretty much every other switch on the panel! A simple light switch right by the door/steps sure would be handy! WTF Keystone??!!

3. There are at least a dozen 120v outlets all over the trailer, but not a single 12v port for the stuff we all really use every day like cell phone chargers and whatnot?! WTF Keystone??!!

I'm guessing these aren't necessarily Keystone-specific issues, but I thought this sort of light hearted venting was kind of a fun topic to keep going. What else is out there?

I second the thought on the power outlets. It wouldn't be much of a draw to have the ability to plug in a clock next to the bed. That's BS about the pump. I wonder if Fuzions have that same design. To solve the light issue, we noticed that too, we started turning on the nightlight function and leaving it on. It provides just enough light.

[moman1]

joebedford wrote:
My utilities cabinet has 2 TV type connectors (sometimes one is internet) one CABLE and one SAT.

My rig has 4 TVs - each has different capabilities. All get cable/air.

The garage TV has a DVD player that can also push video / audio to the outside TV.

The outside TV also has an HDMI connection to my secondary satellite receiver.

The living room and bedroom TVs are connected via HDMI to my primary dual-tuner satelite receiver / PVR. There is a DVD player for the living room tv (I think it will also drive the bedroom tv but I've never tried it). The LR and BR equipment is all driven by a 300W MSW inverter.

The dish on a tripod connects via 3 dedicated coax cable, completely bypassing the RV wiring.

I have a PS3 for video games, streaming and Blu-ray.

All the HDMI connections are through an HDMI switch that connects anything to anything - I need a topend Logitech Harmony to configure everything.

I did all the HDMI stuff. It's unreasonable to expect the factory to do complicated Audio / Video.

Don't get me started on why they didn't install some RJ-45 ethernet ports.

Well said and well done. I know it's possible. The biggest aspect here is cost savings to the manufacturer. What they don't get is that the difference between $115,000 and $116,000 is negligible to someone paying that amount of money in the first place. If you had two identical RVs next to each other and the only difference is the A/V connectivity you mentioned and that you would have to pay an extra $1,000 for, who wouldn't pay it? I would.

[moman1]

1jeep wrote:
OP...you should have bought a carbon and saved some $$$! I only have 2 tvs one has no connection to anything other than the cheap dvd player I put in. the main tv ive watched twice.
there is only one fridge and a cooler that I fill with ice for the adult beverages...never questioned why it wasn't connected to the generator.

I don't think the issue is keystone I think the issue is people are starting to use these as second homes and expecting many features that they have at home.

I agree that people are using these as second homes now and the expectation is higher because of that. I think the design of trailers these days should be geared towards appeasing both dry campers and those that only use full hookups. I'm not an engineer by any stretch and don't know what the financial or engineering aspects of that solution are. But I know if a company did that, I would spend the money on their product instead.

[moman1]

newman fulltimer wrote:
Thats why they put that thing called a generator onboard

It's not practical to run the generator all day just to keep a few bottles of water or beer or soda cold all day.

[moman1]

DiskDoctr wrote:
You may like the idea of adding an inverter to run your outdoor fridge from the batteries, which a solar system may be able to run without a generator (and phone chargers, laptops, other small 120v appliances)

Could be pretty simple and have other benefits beyond just a fridge you can use when not on shore power 😉

I like this idea. I'm going to look into it. Thank you!

[1jeep]

Wow I guess whenever I start to complain I think that I used to sleep in a tent and all seems better.

[TWZMYJP]

OP - sounds like your frustrations have been pretty well responded to so I won't continue to beat that horse, but I'll add a couple of my own "WTF Keystone?!" issues with the purchase of our 2018 Carbon:

1. The water pump draws water from the SIDE of the fresh water tank, with no suction hose or anything actually into the tank. Just a plastic nipple glued to the side of the tank, with PEX tubing running from that nipple up to the water pump. Doesn't sound like that big of a deal until you realize that the nipple is approximately 3/4" up the sidewall of the tank, and is roughly 1/2" in diameter. So that means once you have anything less than 1-1/4" of standing water in the tank, your pump loses prime and you are effectively out of water. Again, no big deal it would seem until you look at the layout of your fresh water tank, which is very long and wide but not very deep because it has to fit between the frame rails of the trailer. Ultimately, you're left with about 30 gallons of water in the tank that you simply can't get to?! WTF Keystone??!!

2. The main control panel for the interior lighting, generator, tank levels, etc is nice and centrally located in the entertainment center, a few steps inside the trailer straight ahead of the entry door. Works great until you get back to the trailer when it's pitch black outside (and thus inside as well) and you have to fumble around inside looking for the right switch to flip on an interior light, which inevitably happens after you have poked pretty much every other switch on the panel! A simple light switch right by the door/steps sure would be handy! WTF Keystone??!!

3. There are at least a dozen 120v outlets all over the trailer, but not a single 12v port for the stuff we all really use every day like cell phone chargers and whatnot?! WTF Keystone??!!

I'm guessing these aren't necessarily Keystone-specific issues, but I thought this sort of light hearted venting was kind of a fun topic to keep going. What else is out there?

[joebedford]

My utilities cabinet has 2 TV type connectors (sometimes one is internet) one CABLE and one SAT.

My rig has 4 TVs - each has different capabilities. All get cable/air.

The garage TV has a DVD player that can also push video / audio to the outside TV.

The outside TV also has an HDMI connection to my secondary satellite receiver.

The living room and bedroom TVs are connected via HDMI to my primary dual-tuner satelite receiver / PVR. There is a DVD player for the living room tv (I think it will also drive the bedroom tv but I've never tried it). The LR and BR equipment is all driven by a 300W MSW inverter.

The dish on a tripod connects via 3 dedicated coax cable, completely bypassing the RV wiring.

I have a PS3 for video games, streaming and Blu-ray.

All the HDMI connections are through an HDMI switch that connects anything to anything - I need a topend Logitech Harmony to configure everything.

I did all the HDMI stuff. It's unreasonable to expect the factory to do complicated Audio / Video.

Don't get me started on why they didn't install some RJ-45 ethernet ports.

[Y-Guy]

They could put in a small LP/12v/110v fridge, Pop up and Class B Campers have them, but they aren't as cheap as a dorm fridge. Score one for cost savings.

I'd say the vast majority of Class A's I've seen have a box that can send the signals to the other TV with the press of a button, it's a wiring challenge but it works. Score two for cost savings, no box and they didn't have to hire somebody that knew what they were doing to install the wiring.

As for the multiple connections, there should be one for Satellite and one for Cable/TV. So this is score three for cost savings. But like above, this is also so they don't have to have good wiring diagrams and a person that knows what they are doing IMHO.

Sadly with all the glitz and glitter they put in the RVs it's a distraction for issues like you've found... until you are home and want to use them.

[1jeep]

OP...you should have bought a carbon and saved some $$$! I only have 2 tvs one has no connection to anything other than the cheap dvd player I put in. the main tv ive watched twice.
there is only one fridge and a cooler that I fill with ice for the adult beverages...never questioned why it wasn't connected to the generator.

I don't think the issue is keystone I think the issue is people are starting to use these as second homes and expecting many features that they have at home.

[newman_fulltime]

Thats why they put that thing called a generator onboard