Hi all, I currently tow a TT but am looking to get a fifth wheel. My questions are about "pin weight". My current TV is a 2004.5 Ram 2500 with the HO 5.9 Cummins rated to tow 13,050lbs. GCWR is 20,000lbs ( I found this on several tow guides), GVWR is 9,000lbs ( from label on door) and curb weight is 6727 lbs ( from same label on door) but weighed 7540 on scale( full tank of diesel, 140lb driver, cap on bed and tool box in bed) . My truck is a 4x4 with a 6' 3" bed.With the above info I am trying to find out what will be my limiting factor when looking at fifth wheel campers. If I understand it correctly I should estimate 15-20% of the fifth wheel GVWR to be my pin weight, is that correct??Iif so then I only have 1490lbs available of pin weight? ( GVWR- Curb weight) is that correct? Educate me please

I have a '03 2500 Quad cab 2wd Cummins NV5600 with a 13250 lb tow rating 3rd gen truck same as yours.. Dodge gives these year model tracks a 6000 RAWR. My 2wd trucks rear axles weighs 2860 lbs which leaves my truck with a 3140 lb in the bed payload. Your 4wd rear axle may weigh 100 or so more lbs so payload will be a bit less. Best choice drop by the scales and weigh the trucks front and rear axles separately. That way you know exactly how much load the truck can safely carry/start and stop. Just stay under the trucks RAWR. RAWR is the lessor of a wheel...tire.....rear suspension and the axle. The rear axle is the same 11.5" AAM axle as the 3500 one ton trucks. My truck comes with 17" tires and wheels. Most 2500 Dodge trucks from that era have no upper overload spring pack. My truck sags with 1800 lbs of readi-mix bags over the rear axle so in my trucks case the rear spring pack is the weak link. I've found SuperSprings helps with the squat on this model truck.

usmc616 wrote:Hi all, I currently tow a TT but am looking to get a fifth wheel. My questions are about "pin weight". My current TV is a 2004.5 Ram 2500 with the HO 5.9 Cummins rated to tow 13,050lbs. GCWR is 20,000lbs ( I found this on several tow guides), GVWR is 9,000lbs ( from label on door) and curb weight is 6727 lbs ( from same label on door) but weighed 7540 on scale( full tank of diesel, 140lb driver, cap on bed and tool box in bed) . My truck is a 4x4 with a 6' 3" bed.With the above info I am trying to find out what will be my limiting factor when looking at fifth wheel campers. If I understand it correctly I should estimate 15-20% of the fifth wheel GVWR to be my pin weight, is that correct??Iif so then I only have 1490lbs available of pin weight? ( GVWR- Curb weight) is that correct? Educate me pleaseMany 3/4 ton owners ignore the GVWR of their truck and use the rear axle rating as their limiting value. If you where buying a truck to use for a fiver I'd say get a 1 ton SRW but because you've already got a truck I'll say ignore the GVWR and let your rear axle rating determine your maximum pin weight.

4x4ord wrote:usmc616 wrote:Hi all, I currently tow a TT but am looking to get a fifth wheel. My questions are about "pin weight". My current TV is a 2004.5 Ram 2500 with the HO 5.9 Cummins rated to tow 13,050lbs. GCWR is 20,000lbs ( I found this on several tow guides), GVWR is 9,000lbs ( from label on door) and curb weight is 6727 lbs ( from same label on door) but weighed 7540 on scale( full tank of diesel, 140lb driver, cap on bed and tool box in bed) . My truck is a 4x4 with a 6' 3" bed.With the above info I am trying to find out what will be my limiting factor when looking at fifth wheel campers. If I understand it correctly I should estimate 15-20% of the fifth wheel GVWR to be my pin weight, is that correct??Iif so then I only have 1490lbs available of pin weight? ( GVWR- Curb weight) is that correct? Educate me pleaseMany 3/4 ton owners ignore the GVWR of their truck and use the rear axle rating as their limiting value. If you where buying a truck to use for a fiver I'd say get a 1 ton SRW but because you've already got a truck I'll say ignore the GVWR and let your rear axle rating determine your maximum pin weight.Stay within both the RAWR and =tire= ratings and you should be OK. Doesn't mean that you should ignore the combined weight, but it's not as critical, IMO.As for pin weight, figure more like 20-25% of the GVW. If you can find owners of the same FWs you can ask them what their actual weights are.Lyle

My truck is 2004.5 2WD dually with 8ft. bed and 3.73 rear end. My truck weighs 8,000 pounds with my wife and I plus a heavy hitch and a tri-fold bed cover. My gross combined is 21k#. I tow a 10k# to 10.5k# fifth wheel and the truck does very nicely. The engine could use some more grunt but for the most part is sufficient. The chassis does very well with no movement from the trailer. I could see going another ton on the trailer with no problems. I do have to monitor the transmission and switch between tow-haul and OD while towing. I added a PacBrake and would not tow six tons without it. Our engine runs hot and I monitor my exhaust gas temperatures. I find the engine will continue to pull when the EGTs are in the uncomfortable zone. I'm in a campground now, averaged 11.9 MPG on the way here, 65 MPH. Show some moderation with you trailer selection and you will like your truck's performance. I consider my pin weight to be on the light end and I am at 20%.

usmc616 wrote:Hi all, I currently tow a TT but am looking to get a fifth wheel. My questions are about "pin weight". My current TV is a 2004.5 Ram 2500 with the HO 5.9 Cummins rated to tow 13,050lbs. GCWR is 20,000lbs ( I found this on several tow guides), GVWR is 9,000lbs ( from label on door) and curb weight is 6727 lbs ( from same label on door) but weighed 7540 on scale( full tank of diesel, 140lb driver, cap on bed and tool box in bed) . My truck is a 4x4 with a 6' 3" bed.With the above info I am trying to find out what will be my limiting factor when looking at fifth wheel campers. If I understand it correctly I should estimate 15-20% of the fifth wheel GVWR to be my pin weight, is that correct??Iif so then I only have 1490lbs available of pin weight? ( GVWR- Curb weight) is that correct? Educate me pleaseJust some food for thought, before we upgraded our TV from a 2001 Ram 2500 CTD and NV4500 5 speed manual we towed a 12,550# 5er.The 5er had a pin weight of 2,700# just under 22%. My 2500 had a GVWR of 8,800#, ready to camp with me DW and 35# Beagle, full fuel, hitch and in bed tool box weighed 7,800#. This put me 1,700# over GVWR, but still about 300# under the 6,084# rear axle, and well under tire rating.The fact I was 1,700# over GVWR kept eating at me, so I upgraded to a 2016 Ram 3500 DRW, now have 1,300# of spare capacity.The choice is yours.

Looking to upgrade to a fifth wheel. | Good Sam Community

usmc616
Explorer
Jun 27, 2020
I just want to thank everyone for their input. Last week I purchased my new TV. She is a 2017 Silverado 4x4 3500HD Dually with a 8' bed, Allison transmission and the 6.6 Duramax engine. It took me several months to decide which 1 ton I wanted and then another couple months to time selling my truck and purchasing a new to me truck.
usmc616
Explorer
Sep 07, 2019
camper1013 wrote:
towingplanner.com has some great weight info. You can enter your weights and it will help calculate thing out for you.

My 5th wheel is 14k on the scale and just about 3k pin weight. There are a lot of people that pull mid sized 5th wheels with 3/4 trucks. We had to upgrade from a 1500 and went straight to the 3500.

Thank you for the info.
camper1013
Explorer
Sep 06, 2019
towingplanner.com has some great weight info. You can enter your weights and it will help calculate thing out for you.

My 5th wheel is 14k on the scale and just about 3k pin weight. There are a lot of people that pull mid sized 5th wheels with 3/4 trucks. We had to upgrade from a 1500 and went straight to the 3500.
garyp4951
Explorer III
Sep 06, 2019
Subtract your rear empty weight from 6000lbs, or from your rear tires max load rating, and use the lesser amount for max rear loading.
usmc616
Explorer
Sep 06, 2019
Michelle.S wrote:
Your Wife, Kids, and Dogs aren't going Camping with you?? Since you're only adding your weight.

Since you asked, my son was the driver that weighed the truck.My wife usually meets me at the CG with our 13 year old and a few of the dogs. My 3 oldest kids are in college and work part time so they drive themselves to the CG. The only weight I need to add is mine 230lbs - the 140 so I will add 90 more pounds to the scaled weight.

Now that I have answered your question could you answer mine: Is this equation correct: GVWR - scaled weight = available payload.
usmc616
Explorer
Sep 06, 2019
4x4ord wrote:
usmc616 wrote:
Hi all, I currently tow a TT but am looking to get a fifth wheel. My questions are about "pin weight". My current TV is a 2004.5 Ram 2500 with the HO 5.9 Cummins rated to tow 13,050lbs. GCWR is 20,000lbs ( I found this on several tow guides), GVWR is 9,000lbs ( from label on door) and curb weight is 6727 lbs ( from same label on door) but weighed 7540 on scale( full tank of diesel, 140lb driver, cap on bed and tool box in bed) . My truck is a 4x4 with a 6' 3" bed.
With the above info I am trying to find out what will be my limiting factor when looking at fifth wheel campers. If I understand it correctly I should estimate 15-20% of the fifth wheel GVWR to be my pin weight, is that correct??Iif so then I only have 1490lbs available of pin weight? ( GVWR- Curb weight) is that correct? Educate me please

Many 3/4 ton owners ignore the GVWR of their truck and use the rear axle rating as their limiting value. If you where buying a truck to use for a fiver I'd say get a 1 ton SRW but because you've already got a truck I'll say ignore the GVWR and let your rear axle rating determine your maximum pin weight.

My door label says the GAWR Rear is 6000lbs, so does that mean my maximum pin weight is 6000lbs?
Michelle_S
Explorer III
Sep 06, 2019
Your Wife, Kids, and Dogs aren't going Camping with you?? Since you're only adding your weight.
usmc616
Explorer
Sep 06, 2019
TXiceman wrote:
The limiting weight on your 2500 is the pin weight of the trailer and the trucks GVWR and GAWR for the rear axle. A typical 5er when loaded has a pin weight around 20% of the trailers GVWR.

Weigh your truck loaded for travel with passengers, cargo, hitch and fuel. now you have a baseline for selecting a trailer that will not over load the trucks ratings. Adding air bags and help springs does nothing toward increasing the trucks ratings.

Ken

Ken, The scaled weight I provided included my cap and tool box, I estimate both weight 200lbs probably close to a fifth wheel hitch, since I do not have a fifth wheel now I o not have a fifth wheel hitch to weigh. The only other thing I would add to the truck is myself, 230lbs. I do understand air bags and springs will not increase my trucks ratings.
troubledwaters
Explorer III
Sep 05, 2019
Bob Shaw wrote:
troubledwaters wrote:
You can tow a lot bigger TT than a fifth wheel and still stay within your ratings - Just Saying.

That's not what my owners manual says. My 5th wheel tow rating is higher than the tt tow rating.

Yes, but your payload rating hasn't changed; and 10% vs. 20% means you can carry twice as much TT. And everyone knows you run out a payload long before you get to the tow rating. Simple Math.
Bob_Shaw
Explorer
Sep 05, 2019
troubledwaters wrote:
You can tow a lot bigger TT than a fifth wheel and still stay within your ratings - Just Saying.

That's not what my owners manual says. My 5th wheel tow rating is higher than the tt tow rating.

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