Need brakes on boat trailer?

[jacksonr]

Been double towing a 16' boat a number of years, but have upgraded to a larger 19'er. Plan to continue doubling (only way to go if you like camping and fishing). My question is, how many of you have brakes on the boat trailer? Are they necessary or is your tv and 5th wheel brakes providing enough stopping power?
I'd like to hear pros and cons.

[jacksonr]

Lots of feedback and I appreciate it. Of course feedback on what works is always the most valuable. Think Ill head towards the electric brake idea.
Thanks everybody.

[Super_Dave]

If you run your truck in tow/haul mode on down grades,the boat trailer brakes are being applied even if you don't have your foot on the brake. I have burned up some brakes and bearings in Utah / Wyoming go to the Gorge. The other key safety factor of electric over hydraulic style braking for the double tow is that one can apply brakes to the boat trailer manually through the controller should the boat trailer get into a wagging motion without applying brakes to the whole rig. That tends to straighten everything out. For definition, don't misunderstand "electric over hydraulic" as an electric brake. The master cylinder is simply controlled electrically and the cylinder back is hydraulic.

[Mile_High]

laknox wrote:

Mile High wrote:

laknox wrote:

The brakes on my dad's 20' Reinell trailer don't overheat when going down a grade. Surge brakes, in good working order, =should= have some sort of device that puts some back-pressure on the cylinder to keep this from happening. If it didn't, you couldn't even back up. We had an old water-wagon with surge brakes that =didn't= have this feature and had to make a U-shaped collar to slip into the slide to be able to back the trailer up since any movement backwards would lock up the brakes.

Lyle

I have to completely disagree with you Lyle - and I'm not alone. Check the boat forums - A surge brake working "perfectly" is actually applying brakes all the way down a steep pass like I-70 or Wolf Creek, as if you were riding the brakes. Many Colorado boat trailer shops offer the electric conversion as a fix - with the superior fix being electric over disk hydraulic. A surge brake does not know how to discriminate. I bet if you checked the temp your Dad's brakes were overheating. I got tired of having to replace the bearing buddies or grease caps because they typically flew off when the grease got too hot.

If you like your surge brakes in Arizona - keep em!

Again, how do you back up if there's not some resistance built in? Our boat trailer seems to work just fine, with no signs of overheating. I guess YM =does= V. 🙂

Lyle

Mine has (had) a selector on top of the tongue that says "lockout". you just turn it to lockout and backup. As soon as you drive forward it releases the lock. In fact ALL surge brakes have some sort of lockout to backup, either a pin, a shim, or a selector. If not, they sell stuff like this Surge Brake Backup Tool. If you can backup a steep driveway with your surge engaged, something is wrong with your surge!

Anyone that says their surge brakes aren't being applied in an engine brake descent just doesn't know they are. Come try it in CO and then measure the temp on the drum.

Anyway - don't really give a rats what others are using - converting mine to electric was the best thing I could ever do for that trailer. Nothing ever comes good out of this useless forum anyway. Anything outside of the box and the self made experts step in to try and close the box back up!

[laknox]

Mile High wrote:

laknox wrote:

The brakes on my dad's 20' Reinell trailer don't overheat when going down a grade. Surge brakes, in good working order, =should= have some sort of device that puts some back-pressure on the cylinder to keep this from happening. If it didn't, you couldn't even back up. We had an old water-wagon with surge brakes that =didn't= have this feature and had to make a U-shaped collar to slip into the slide to be able to back the trailer up since any movement backwards would lock up the brakes.

Lyle

I have to completely disagree with you Lyle - and I'm not alone. Check the boat forums - A surge brake working "perfectly" is actually applying brakes all the way down a steep pass like I-70 or Wolf Creek, as if you were riding the brakes. Many Colorado boat trailer shops offer the electric conversion as a fix - with the superior fix being electric over disk hydraulic. A surge brake does not know how to discriminate. I bet if you checked the temp your Dad's brakes were overheating. I got tired of having to replace the bearing buddies or grease caps because they typically flew off when the grease got too hot.

If you like your surge brakes in Arizona - keep em!

Again, how do you back up if there's not some resistance built in? Our boat trailer seems to work just fine, with no signs of overheating. I guess YM =does= V. 🙂

Lyle

[slomark]

I used disks on the 5er, and surge on the tandem axle rzr trailer. Works fine.

[jalichty]

We have been towing double since 1993, only the first boat didn't have brakes, a 19' Bayliner Capri. It was very light. Since then, every one of my boats have had tandem axles and surge brakes, since 1996 and I have never had a problem with the surge brakes on any of the three boats, either going up or downhill. I believe the surge brakes actuate when there is significant pressure from the boat trailer forward to cause them to start working. Going downhill with the engine braking system does not seem to actuate the brakes so I am going to keep towing double with electric brakes on the FW and surge brakes on the boat trailer. In Wyoming, the max length that can be double towed is 85' and my outfit measures about 71' so I'm good to go. I don't know about any other states around here as I haven't towed double in any other state than Wyoming. Some day I might and then I will check to see what I need to do.

[RCMAN46]

RAS43 wrote:

agesilaus wrote:
Your state will have regulations/laws on what they require. Usually trailers above a certain weight must have brakes

X2 Good advice. My boat/trailer weighs 2450lbs and here it does not require brakes and I have never felt the need for them. I am under GCVWR with my double rig.

Some day you may be forced into an emergency braking situation and I am sure your 2450 lb boat will be more than able to swing your rv trailer around into a jack knife and then lead the way to what could be a disaster.

[Mile_High]

laknox wrote:

The brakes on my dad's 20' Reinell trailer don't overheat when going down a grade. Surge brakes, in good working order, =should= have some sort of device that puts some back-pressure on the cylinder to keep this from happening. If it didn't, you couldn't even back up. We had an old water-wagon with surge brakes that =didn't= have this feature and had to make a U-shaped collar to slip into the slide to be able to back the trailer up since any movement backwards would lock up the brakes.

Lyle

I have to completely disagree with you Lyle - and I'm not alone. Check the boat forums - A surge brake working "perfectly" is actually applying brakes all the way down a steep pass like I-70 or Wolf Creek, as if you were riding the brakes. Many Colorado boat trailer shops offer the electric conversion as a fix - with the superior fix being electric over disk hydraulic. A surge brake does not know how to discriminate. I bet if you checked the temp your Dad's brakes were overheating. I got tired of having to replace the bearing buddies or grease caps because they typically flew off when the grease got too hot.

If you like your surge brakes in Arizona - keep em!

[Shadow_Grey]

guidry wrote:
If you double tow, most states require brakes on the boat. Check your DVL regs.

This is true for most states allowing double towing.

2009 21' Stratos with surge brakes behind a 2013 3150RL Montana behind 2004 3500 CTD QuadCab LongBed.

Now he has a 2014 CTD QuadCab LongBed.

[RAS43]

agesilaus wrote:
Your state will have regulations/laws on what they require. Usually trailers above a certain weight must have brakes

X2 Good advice. My boat/trailer weighs 2450lbs and here it does not require brakes and I have never felt the need for them. I am under GCVWR with my double rig.

[laknox]

Mile High wrote:

Bamaman1 wrote:
Surge brakes work better for boats, as they're mechanical. Water and electrics don't work so well together. And a 19' boat needs brakes and tandem axles.

You're a braver man than me. I'd never consider double towing, and many states prohibit it for a reason. I'd rather rent space in a storage lot for either the boat or the RV close to where I usually camped.

A 19 ft boat could be a fishing boat with a 25 hp outboard, which may not need either! Weight is the criteria, not length.

Only saltwater is an issue for electrics because of corrosion. For freshwater electric is fine and far superior to surge, especially for mountain driving. Surge brakes overheat descending long passes. Converted mine to electric several years ago.

Some (many) brake controllers support additional axles. Just run new 10 gauge all the way back to the truck from the boat, dont tap the RV trailer brakes or you will have too much voltage drop through the factory RV brake wires.

The brakes on my dad's 20' Reinell trailer don't overheat when going down a grade. Surge brakes, in good working order, =should= have some sort of device that puts some back-pressure on the cylinder to keep this from happening. If it didn't, you couldn't even back up. We had an old water-wagon with surge brakes that =didn't= have this feature and had to make a U-shaped collar to slip into the slide to be able to back the trailer up since any movement backwards would lock up the brakes.

Lyle

[Mile_High]

Bamaman1 wrote:
Surge brakes work better for boats, as they're mechanical. Water and electrics don't work so well together. And a 19' boat needs brakes and tandem axles.

You're a braver man than me. I'd never consider double towing, and many states prohibit it for a reason. I'd rather rent space in a storage lot for either the boat or the RV close to where I usually camped.

A 19 ft boat could be a fishing boat with a 25 hp outboard, which may not need either! Weight is the criteria, not length.

Only saltwater is an issue for electrics because of corrosion. For freshwater electric is fine and far superior to surge, especially for mountain driving. Surge brakes overheat descending long passes. Converted mine to electric several years ago.

Some (many) brake controllers support additional axles. Just run new 10 gauge all the way back to the truck from the boat, dont tap the RV trailer brakes or you will have too much voltage drop through the factory RV brake wires.

[Bamaman11]

Surge brakes work better for boats, as they're mechanical. Water and electrics don't work so well together. And a 19' boat needs brakes and tandem axles.

You're a braver man than me. I'd never consider double towing, and many states prohibit it for a reason. I'd rather rent space in a storage lot for either the boat or the RV close to where I usually camped.

[guidry]

If you double tow, most states require brakes on the boat. Check your DVL regs.