Newbie question about towing weights

[Turbo_Turtle]

Hi

We're looking at 5ers and wondering how to figure pulling weights. Which numbers do you use to figure whether your truck is strong enough?

(I know it's a basic question, but I'm really scratching my head here.)

We own a 1998 F250 (Ford) V8 gasoline, with a heavy duty towing package that's in great shape. (I don't have the paperwork to tell me which liter it is; we bought it used so we don't have any manual or anything.)

A quick Google search says that an F250 will pull 2100 to 2600 lbs. Most 5ers that I'm looking at (such as a Wilderness 32 foot) are listed as weighing 7994 pounds. Does that mean that we can't pull it?

(IF so, seems odd because I pull a horse trailer that's rated at 10K lbs. just fine...)

Can someone give me some simple clarity on a formula, or how to find out what my truck really can pull?

[laknox]

Turbo Turtle wrote:

MFL wrote:
If your 96, is a full 4-door crew cab 4x4,gas, it will have the 7.5 (460) engine. It will be a strong puller, if in good condition. It was rated to pull 10,000 lbs.

To find out what pin weight it will carry, you will have to weigh the rear axle, with the truck loaded with everything you plan to take camping. There should be a RAWR sticker in the drivers door. It should show 6,000 plus lbs.

With the rear tires only, sitting on the scale, lets say the weight on rear axle, shows 3,500 lbs. You now just subtract that 3,500 from the RAWR of 6,000, if that is the number on the door sticker.

This will give you the available pin weight. In this case it would be 2500 lbs. It may be more, if your RAWR is more, as listed on door sticker.

This would mean that you could handle a 10,000 lb., loaded weight FW, as that is the limit your powertrain is rated to pull. A 10,000 lb. loaded weight FW, would have about 2,000 lbs. of pin weight.

Jerry

The number on our door sticker RAWR is 6084.

AND: Doesn't that pin # change with, say, how much you pack into the trailer in front of its wheels and how much in the rear? Or is the balanced weight the same: just an overall load?

Yes, you can change the pin wt =some=, by balancing your load, though you =can= get too light on the pin and cause stability issues. Our local hitch shop uninstalled a swivel-wheel tote from a FW because it was unweighting the pin too much and causing significant sway at speed. Personally, I only carry enough fresh water to get me to a CG or to a point near our usual boondock site where I water down, including extra jugs. I never carry anything in the waste tanks if I can help it.

Lyle

[Turbo_Turtle]

Good news, Mike L! Weep not! We took all advice to heart and didn't buy the Sandpiper because of the comments I got here! 😄

We bought a 2005 Wilderness 295 2BS 32'

The empty weight is 8,792. The GVWR is listed as 11,450 with Load Range D tires. It currently has Load E tires. 😄 AND: we plan to upgrade our truck if we find we want to pack more than 1,200 lbs of stuff on the road, which we think possible, but unlikely, as stated above.

[lawrosa]

Turbo Turtle wrote:
Thanks for your patience and replies, everyone!

Sorry to be so dense.

We'll get the trailer this coming weekend, and plan to weigh it empty before we pick up the trailer and then afterward, with the trailer on, but low on gas in the truck. We can figure gas weight; then we plan to weigh everything that goes onto the trailer as we come up to speed, and the truck (though, we are light travelers on weekends and won't need much in the truck). Our first trip will be in mid-March, a weekend, and we'll pack very light. Still, we'll weigh again as we pass the CAT scales just to see.

FWIW: My truck is in excellent condition. Was babied all of its life, though it sure does guzzle gas! We have pulled smaller horse trailers with no issues, and we live in the mountains of WV. However, last spring, my EMPTY horse trailer snapped its axle (it was an ancient, bumper pull kind) in the parking lot overnight (after being towed all day) so I'm sensitive to what can happen. Don't want to see that on a 10K# trailer and on the Interstate!

So sad IMO that you were offered advice here before you bought the FW..

Here are the specs for the sandpiper you bought.

Dry Weight (lbs/kg) 11064 / 5018.6
Payload Capacity (lbs/kgs) 3262 / 1479.6
GVWR (lbs/kgs) 14326 / 6498.3
Hitch Weight (lbs/kgs) 2326 / 1055.1

:?:S


Thats the advertised weight... I kind of doubt your truck will have a 2326 lb payload capacity. And that # again is the advertised #.. Im sure it will be alot heavier.. I bet that pin Is much more.

25% of the dry 11000 lb weight is 2750 lbs pin... Geez... And once you load the FW It will be higher... 3K???

Unless I am missing something I feel you put the cart before the horse... Ya ya everyone says they pack light etc etc...

Some just try to justify it somehow..:R

You should of got the truck weighed before you bought. But I assume you already bought it when you first posted here. So all the replies were somewhat of a waste IMO..

Guess you fell into the dealer trap...

Well good luck... Hope you dont break some suspension components while doing 65 mph... It will not be pretty im sure...

I just hope you dont hurt yourselfs or kill anyone if indeed you are way over weight...

Above is all my opinion of course.. I tried to help you..

[Turbo_Turtle]

Thanks so much! It's intimating, but an adventure, too!

[MFL]

Congrats on the new to you FW! I am thinking this should be a good fit for your truck. The scales will have the final say, but hey, you have the truck, and now the FW, so it is what it is.

One thing you already know, is what your gas mileage will be! Lol, it is what it is too.

Wish you luck,
Jerry

[Turbo_Turtle]

Luckily, we're minimalists. We have always been tent campers (my husband still prefers tent camping) and you don't get into the habit of having a lot when doing camping in cars. For instance, we don't envision having any gear in the truck bed. We think we'll put some food in the FW, some clothing in the drawers on board, and some linens and towels and toiletries as well. We'll probably use the campground showers/toilets most of the time as well.

This FW has been purchased PRIMARILY as a stationary guest house for our adult kids and their kids who visit us frequently at our WV farm in summers.

SECONDARILY, we plan to use it in our business for trade shows each spring. There, we won't bring a lot of camping gear: just basic weekend clothing and minimal foodstuffs.

The FINAL (and we may never do this) use that this RV might see is for a two-week to two-month stay in a warmer climate during the winter in years to come. That's iffy at present, and admittedly, I could see us packing way more gear for an extended snowbird-type experience.

Since the unit that we just purchased is under our rough-figured limit when lightly packed (empty weight is listed as 8,792; GVWR is listed as 11,450) that's over 1200 lbs of gear before we hit 10K #s, and I just don't think we'll get near that. Heck, I weigh 130 and my hubby right at 220#, and most of the time it will just be us on the road. So, I think we'll be okay, but we do plan to do due diligence, starting this weekend, in weighing and figuring as we pick up the new unit.

And I know... if we like it we might find ourselves using it more and packing more along. Well, if we need to, we'll have the budget to upgrade our truck since we bought this unit used at a great low price. 😄

[MFL]

You are correct. Pin wt. will most definitely get heavier, if you pack lots in front of the axles.

On average, most consider 20% of actual loaded FW weight, to be the average pin wt.

If you buy a trailer, that is right on the edge of your trucks capability, for pin wt., when empty, you will have to watch where you load every item.

The payload of truck needs to be considered too. If full of people and gear, plus a maximum pin wt. of 2,584, you will likely go too far over your GVWR.

If you keep the pin wt. closer to 2,000, it will give a little more passenger payload.

Jerry

[Turbo_Turtle]

MFL wrote:
If your 96, is a full 4-door crew cab 4x4,gas, it will have the 7.5 (460) engine. It will be a strong puller, if in good condition. It was rated to pull 10,000 lbs.

To find out what pin weight it will carry, you will have to weigh the rear axle, with the truck loaded with everything you plan to take camping. There should be a RAWR sticker in the drivers door. It should show 6,000 plus lbs.

With the rear tires only, sitting on the scale, lets say the weight on rear axle, shows 3,500 lbs. You now just subtract that 3,500 from the RAWR of 6,000, if that is the number on the door sticker.

This will give you the available pin weight. In this case it would be 2500 lbs. It may be more, if your RAWR is more, as listed on door sticker.

This would mean that you could handle a 10,000 lb., loaded weight FW, as that is the limit your powertrain is rated to pull. A 10,000 lb. loaded weight FW, would have about 2,000 lbs. of pin weight.

Jerry

The number on our door sticker RAWR is 6084.

AND: Doesn't that pin # change with, say, how much you pack into the trailer in front of its wheels and how much in the rear? Or is the balanced weight the same: just an overall load?

[Turbo_Turtle]

Thanks, Dave! We're in beautiful (magnificent) Pendleton County, WV.

I love the Internet. You can find REAL information from REAL people who are in it just to help others, or because they love what they do (read: GEEK OUT!) and not for personal gain. I really do sincerely thank those who took time to post. 😄

[dballentine]

Turbo Turtle wrote:
...

Sorry to be so dense.

...

Not at all. It's a confusing topic, full of strange acronyms, obscure terms, and rules of thumb, confounded by manufacturers' widespread use of an almost meaningless number, the "tow rating".

And you're still left in limbo a little bit. You don't know, FOR SURE, that you aren't exceeding some rating or other until you're all hooked up and ready to go, full of gear. And I doubt you'll find a dealer willing to let you do that before you buy.

So all of the calculations and measurements we've been discussing are to make sure you won't obviously be over some limit, such as a pin weight greater than available payload. Beyond that, it's common sense.

For example, when we started to look at our Reflection 337RLS, based on its ~2100lb dry pin weight that loaded, it would be right at (or slightly above) the payload for a 2500HD. Rather than tow with a truck right at its limits, I decided to go with the 3500HD and its 1000lb greater payload.

BTW, I grew up in Wetzel County. Where are you in Almost Heaven?

Dave

[Turbo_Turtle]

Thanks for your patience and replies, everyone!

Sorry to be so dense.

We'll get the trailer this coming weekend, and plan to weigh it empty before we pick up the trailer and then afterward, with the trailer on, but low on gas in the truck. We can figure gas weight; then we plan to weigh everything that goes onto the trailer as we come up to speed, and the truck (though, we are light travelers on weekends and won't need much in the truck). Our first trip will be in mid-March, a weekend, and we'll pack very light. Still, we'll weigh again as we pass the CAT scales just to see.

FWIW: My truck is in excellent condition. Was babied all of its life, though it sure does guzzle gas! We have pulled smaller horse trailers with no issues, and we live in the mountains of WV. However, last spring, my EMPTY horse trailer snapped its axle (it was an ancient, bumper pull kind) in the parking lot overnight (after being towed all day) so I'm sensitive to what can happen. Don't want to see that on a 10K# trailer and on the Interstate!

[MFL]

If your 96, is a full 4-door crew cab 4x4,gas, it will have the 7.5 (460) engine. It will be a strong puller, if in good condition. It was rated to pull 10,000 lbs.

To find out what pin weight it will carry, you will have to weigh the rear axle, with the truck loaded with everything you plan to take camping. There should be a RAWR sticker in the drivers door. It should show 6,000 plus lbs.

With the rear tires only, sitting on the scale, lets say the weight on rear axle, shows 3,500 lbs. You now just subtract that 3,500 from the RAWR of 6,000, if that is the number on the door sticker.

This will give you the available pin weight. In this case it would be 2500 lbs. It may be more, if your RAWR is more, as listed on door sticker.

This would mean that you could handle a 10,000 lb., loaded weight FW, as that is the limit your powertrain is rated to pull. A 10,000 lb. loaded weight FW, would have about 2,000 lbs. of pin weight.

Jerry

[JIMNLIN]

Load the truck like it was ready to pull the trailer and then weigh its front and drive axles separately.
Then load the trailer as it would be on a trip and hook it up the the truck. You can use a CAT scale that has a platform for the trucks front axle and separate platform for the trucks drive axle and a third platform for the trailers axles.
Simply subtract the two drive axle weights for a pin weight number. Don't exceed any of the truck or trailers axle numbers.

Question;
If so, how do you know before purchase if your truck can pull a given 5er?

By looking at the trucks GVWR and in particular its FAWR/RAWR numbers on the trucks certification placard on the drivers side door post.
The most important number from a safety standpoint is not exceeding trucks the RAWR as its carrying the pin weight. RAWR includes tires/wheels and the rear spring pack.

Now how much weight can a tired 20 year old truck pull (tow rating) ??
Good question but not knowing your trucks engine size/hp or tranny or rear axle ratio I sure wouldn't guess. Maybe someone has that year model truck and can help.

[Turbo_Turtle]

I remain confused. I get it that payload and pin weight are the limiting factors. What is unclear is how you arrive at the pin #. Do we weigh the truck empty to start (as a base line), then load with gas and gear, then weigh again, then load the trailer on empty and weigh, then fill the trailer and weigh? If so, how do you know before purchase if your truck can pull a given 5er?