Shifting gears...Need a little insite and help?

[teraandjim]

Hello Everyone,

First a little back ground. We have a family of four, two kids (8 and 6) and they are now of the age where camping is really exciting to them. We have been holding off on buying a new truck and camper till the kids could appreciate it more and we could save up more money.

My wife and I have finally got enough money together to purchase a new truck and trailer, or so we thought. I have only ever owned trailers, I have owned several pop-ups and a 30' travel trailer that we used frequently through out the 1980 and 1990. My wife and I had our hearts set on one of two travel trailers. One, a Starcraft Autumn Ridge 289BHS or two, Jayco Jay Flight 28 BHBE. We have had the opportunity to see the Jayco and not the Starcraft. while looking at the shows in Michigan and seeing the Jayco's, we began talking with seasoned RV'ers and they were wondering why not look into the fifth wheels that have the same configuration. My question was why? Their answers was safety and more pleasurable towing experience. So we shifted gears a bit, we found a Fifth wheel that fit our criteria. Alum. sides and bunks in the back and found the Starcraft 26 BHS fifth wheel.

The truck has not changed:2016-7 GMC 2500 crew 4X4 6.0 6.5 ft box, but the rv has. Need a little insight as this setup and any experiences fifth wheel towing. Is it a more pleasurable experience? is it safer, I plan to use a Pullrite Superglide series hitch that is right for our truck and this Fifth wheel.

Having never owned, or even considered a fifth wheel any insight be great.

Thank you
Jim and Tera

[mtofell1]

I've had both TTs and 5th wheels and both have pros/cons that are well established - things like losing the bed with the 5th wheel but they generally tow better due to weight being over the axle. The 5th wheel tall ceilings are nice and the floor plans are generally nicer (as long as you don't mind the stairs).

Do be careful though being too cavalier about the payload for the 2500 truck. I just bought a new 5th with a 1750# dry pin weight and am sometimes over my 3000# payload. It goes something like this:

Pin once loaded = 2000
Slider hitch = 275
Myself + wife and 3 small kids = 400 (150# of my weight was taken into account before the 3000# payload)
Misc. other stuff in the truck = 200

And it all adds up to right around my 3000# payload. Some of my numbers are estimates as to how I got to the total but I have rolled through the scales several times with and w/o the 5th to arrive at pretty accurate totals. So, just be careful and if you haven't purchased a truck and are even considering a 5th wheel it's VERY wise to just get the right truck from the start - a 3500.

As for the bed clearance, there's a good chance you'll be okay. I worried about this one a lot but it turned out fine. My truck is a 2014 Ram 2500 with a very tall bed (I happened to be parked next to a new Chevy 2500 recently and looked from the back and my Ram seemed to be at least a couple inches taller). My 2016 Keystone Hideout lines up great with about 8" of clearance. 6" is considered okay - anything less is pushing it but people routinely do it.

Good luck with the search!

[Dandy_Dan]

teraandjim wrote:
Thank you for all the comments.

The Fifth wheel that we are looking at is light 1300 to 1500 pound tongue weight. So I feel the 2850 payload of the 2500 will be enough. The passenger payload is around 600 and the other stuff in the truck has been around 400-500 pounds putting me at around 2500 pounds of tongue weight, people and stuff. This is based off of my previous trips in the trailer.
Appears to be a better set up, better hooking up and unhooking and the sway debate makes sense since the pivot point is in front of the rear wheels.

Looks like a Fifth Wheel is going to be purchased this spring.

Thanks,
Jim and Tera

Jim We have towed a 5er for 9 years with a 2500 Dodge Hemi 4x4. It had got quite a few miles on it and we happened to find a trade. Good Luck as you will like the 5er. Ours is a 34' Open Range

[jmtandem]

Fifth wheels do tow better than travel trailers, regardless of the hitch used on the travel trailer (imo), due to heavier pin weight and the hitch location on the truck.

Based on what? You are entitled to your opinion but the facts speak otherwise. The Hensley and ProPride hitches project the pivot point to just behind the tow vehicle's axle. The PullRide actually pivots nine inches behind the axle making it essentially a fifth wheel hitch under the truck's bed. Therefore, it tows a travel trailer just as well as any fifth wheel as the pivot point is physically the same as would be a pin point on a fifth wheel hitch.

[jmtandem]

The Fifth wheel that we are looking at is light 1300 to 1500 pound tongue weight.

Be very careful, most RV dealers and brochures will give you the dry pin or tongue weight. It typically is far from what you will experience when fully loaded and added water. Use the GVWR of the coach and multiply by .25. That should get you into the ballpark. I am skeptical that a 1300-1500 pound pin weight is real because that would mean the fifth only weighs about 6000-7500 pounds gross. It is almost impossible to find a fifth of any size (28 feet like you were comparing to the TT) that only weighs 7500 gross. You might want to refresh your numbers or go to the GM dealer and start pricing one ton trucks. Most 28 foot fifth wheels will weigh at least 9000 pounds and many will be over 10,000 gross.

[Lantley]

teraandjim wrote:
Thank you for all the comments.

The Fifth wheel that we are looking at is light 1300 to 1500 pound tongue weight. So I feel the 2850 payload of the 2500 will be enough. The passenger payload is around 600 and the other stuff in the truck has been around 400-500 pounds putting me at around 2500 pounds of tongue weight, people and stuff. This is based off of my previous trips in the trailer.
Appears to be a better set up, better hooking up and unhooking and the sway debate makes sense since the pivot point is in front of the rear wheels.

Looks like a Fifth Wheel is going to be purchased this spring.

Thanks,
Jim and Tera

Are the 1300 and 1500 figures dry weights from the brochure or are they loaded weight with gear and cargo in trailer?

[bbaker2001]

my 2105 3500 4x4 ram is high. my 2001 cardinal does not have flipped axels, but does have some sort of tube frame build up.
have plenty of clearance.

[IdaD]

DownTheAvenue wrote:
That 4x4 pick up you have may be too tall for the fifth wheel trailer. You may have to flip the axles on the trailer to get it to tow level. Think this through very carefully. Also, with the trailer, you have the truck bed to put in kids bicycles and other stuff. With a fifth wheel, no place to stow all the stuff!

Newer fifth wheels tend to be taller. Older ones - an axle flip kit is about $45 per axle. Bikes and other stuff can go on racks or in the fifth wheel. I'm not arguing that you trade some bed space cause it is the single biggest trade off with a fifth wheel, but in return you get a better towing experience, shorter overall length, higher ceilings, generally heavier built units (a generalization), more trailer storage, and easier hitch/unhitch process. You can utilize bike racks and trailer storage to haul your stuff easily enough, and even the option of double towing if legal in your state and you want to bring along a boat or whatever.

In terms of the real key factors at play, to me it's towing experience and length versus bed availability. There's not a wrong answer, it just depends on priorities.

[DownTheAvenue]

That 4x4 pick up you have may be too tall for the fifth wheel trailer. You may have to flip the axles on the trailer to get it to tow level. Think this through very carefully. Also, with the trailer, you have the truck bed to put in kids bicycles and other stuff. With a fifth wheel, no place to stow all the stuff!

[MarkTwain]

SanMarMor wrote:
If going fifth wheel, and you haven't bought the truck, you might consider going 3500. It will open up a lot opportunities with a trailer, and probably won't cost a whole lot more. But if you're good with a smaller lighter trailers, a 2500 will probably work. Check the "actual" cargo capacity on the driver's door post. Subtract all the people, hitch and gear in the truck, and that's what your "loaded" pin weight can be on the trailer.

We had a 30' TT with weight distribution hitch, sway bars, everything to make it tow the best it could. The 5th is much better. For one thing, when you pass, or get passed by, a semi, the air wave hitting the TT makes it swerve. The 5th stays straight, because the pivot point is over the rear tires. Much better. And hitching and unhitching are way easier. I sure wouldn't want to go back to a TT.

[IdaD]

A 2500 works just fine for a midsize fifth wheel. The new ones are the same as SRW 3500s with a softer spring setup in the rear, and you can address excess sag with timbrens or airbags if necessary (unlikely to be necessary with your proposed setup).

Fifth wheels do tow better than travel trailers, regardless of the hitch used on the travel trailer (imo), due to heavier pin weight and the hitch location on the truck. You also get a shorter overall package with the fifth wheel cause some of the trailer overlaps the truck. I won't repeat the line that many use that you can't feel it back there, because you can, but it isn't any more stressful or taxing driving down the highway with my fifth wheel than it is empty - it tracks extremely well.

I'd encourage you to check out Andersen Ultimate hitches. I have the rail mount version and it's a fantastic hitch both in terms of towing performance and ease of use (light and easy to install/remove).

[teraandjim]

Thank you for all the comments.

The Fifth wheel that we are looking at is light 1300 to 1500 pound tongue weight. So I feel the 2850 payload of the 2500 will be enough. The passenger payload is around 600 and the other stuff in the truck has been around 400-500 pounds putting me at around 2500 pounds of tongue weight, people and stuff. This is based off of my previous trips in the trailer.
Appears to be a better set up, better hooking up and unhooking and the sway debate makes sense since the pivot point is in front of the rear wheels.

Looks like a Fifth Wheel is going to be purchased this spring.

Thanks,
Jim and Tera

[jmtandem]

We had a 30' TT with weight distribution hitch, sway bars, everything to make it tow the best it could. The 5th is much better. For one thing, when you pass, or get passed by, a semi, the air wave hitting the TT makes it swerve. The 5th stays straight, because the pivot point is over the rear tires. Much better. And hitching and unhitching are way easier. I sure wouldn't want to go back to a TT.

Many that prefer travel trailers over fifth wheels due to less steps, towing with a van, or having the entire truck bed for stuff will
confirm that towing a TT with a premium hitch is in terms of sway and wiggle no different than towing a fifth wheel. Did you use a Hensley, ProPride or PullRite hitch?

[SanMarMor]

If going fifth wheel, and you haven't bought the truck, you might consider going 3500. It will open up a lot opportunities with a trailer, and probably won't cost a whole lot more. But if you're good with a smaller lighter trailers, a 2500 will probably work. Check the "actual" cargo capacity on the driver's door post. Subtract all the people, hitch and gear in the truck, and that's what your "loaded" pin weight can be on the trailer.

We had a 30' TT with weight distribution hitch, sway bars, everything to make it tow the best it could. The 5th is much better. For one thing, when you pass, or get passed by, a semi, the air wave hitting the TT makes it swerve. The 5th stays straight, because the pivot point is over the rear tires. Much better. And hitching and unhitching are way easier. I sure wouldn't want to go back to a TT.

[bbaker2001]

payload, yes be careful
this is why we went to 3500
price not much difference, but in CA license is more