Whats Your Real Weights? Truck and Trailer. The Real Deal

[juzplanekrazy]

I don’t know if it’s been done before or not but I was thinking about keeping a running list of real truck weights by year and type, and trailer weights by brand, size and what the total combined weight is of each guys rig. I was hoping the info would be a help for guys wondering about what the real weights are for a certain type of truck and to keep track of the more popular brand 5th wheel trailers. Another thing that will come out of it will be to see just how many guys really know what they are towing and if they know what their weight capacities are.
I’m sure it will take some time to compile a list and it will grow as guys add there info but I’m hoping it will help the newer guys in the long run to be directed back over to this thread in the future.
I’ll keep the TV lists to mainly the big 3 and from ¾ ton and up and I’ll try to keep the 5ers in a group by real GVW, length, and then manufacture. Any ideas are welcome as long as it makes things easier. And only real information can be given, so no guessing allowed. Only guys that have scaled there rigs or are totally certain of the weights.
Let’s see if I can keep the format real simple to type down and that will make it simpler for guys to refer back to and to keep track of.
Here we go……

TV - 2006 Dodge Mega Cab 3500 4x4, real scaled weight with full fuel, hitch, DH-DW and misc. gear = 7,500lbs. TV GVWR is 10,200lbs
5ver – KZ New Vision TH 38ft 14,500lbs loaded GVW. GVWR is 18,000lbs
Normal running TV & TH GCW weight= 22,500lbs, TV GCWR is 23,000lbs
Real Wet Pin Weight=2,950lbs

[sonny_drake]

I need to get everything weighed, it seems.
My tow vehicle is a 2003 Ford F-250 crew cab, 6 Liter Power Stroke, automatic, 4x4, slide-in certified. I pull a 2005 Forest River Wildcat 29RLBS. TV has never had a problems, so far, going from eastern NC to Shennendoa Valley VA, Gatlinburg TN, or Waynesville NC. Needless to say I have towed at the eastern continental divide numerous times, having respect for safety, but with no fear. Stopping has never been a problem with TV and when pulling the 5ver, and I have to look at the rear view mirror to assure myself the trailer is still there.
I looked at weight, plenty before buying the trailer. My trailer weight on the decal is much lighter than the average I see folks pulling with a similar tow vehicles.
Does anyone think I need to go with a dually?

[dubdub07]

ramcneal wrote:


Okay. I've now weighed my rig three different times; empty truck, truck with new fifth wheel, and rig loaded for a weekend. I'll weight it one more time on the 7th of March after we've loaded the kitchen up with food for a week and clothes before our trip to Phoenix for Spring Training.

Am I overloaded? Strictly speaking yes I'm overloaded on the GVWR. I'm below the 6200lbs on the rear axle and well under the 20k for the combined weight. I'm going to look into Colorado's laws and see if they allow us to purchase a higher rating like TX. I've been told that TX allows you to run at your axle ratings, if you pay the licensing fee, which is higher than the GVWR which is a good indication to me that the GVWR is bogus. Add to that the difference between my 9000lbs GVWR 2500 and the 10,100lbs GVWR 3500 is a set of springs I feel very safe. I've upgraded the rear suspension and added an exhaust brake.

This is not an endorsement that people should blindly ignore ratings. After doing a bunch of reading on this forum and others for the past three months I've come to realize there are three different types of people when it comes to towing. (1) The weight police. These are the folks who state you can't, should not go over any of the ratings. End of story. (2) People like myself who read and understand their limits, understand just how much weight they are pulling. (3) The last group are the folks who heard about somebody who pulled 30k of hay on a 10k trailer without problems which means their little 1/2 ton truck can pull a 15k trailer safely. So what if the truck sags a little and takes three times the distance to stop. These folks are the ones who the group in #1 are really screaming at or about.

If you disagree with me I would love to hear it. Please feel free to either follow up this post a general education or send me a private message either through this board or at 'ramcneal @ gmail.com' (remove the spaces).

I have read the towing laws and I don't recall anything about being over GVWR being against the law. It does make reference to unsafe loads and axle/tire weights, so I can't see why you would need to purchase anything. It seems that the trucks are tested as a base model and when you finally get it with all the options, the GVWR is the same but your truck weighs more. A lot more. (check out this forum: "Towing at or just over TV GVWR") I have a Dodge 2500 Laramie 6.7 CTD automatic that weighs, with me in it, about 7660LBS full of diesel. With 9000 as my gross, that leaves my cargo weight at about 1300lbs. No 5er pin is that light, so I am over my gross. My WHOLE setup weighs about 18500lbs with a trailer weight of about 11000. The biggest difference in cargo vs 5er is that your 5er has brakes and it is the braking more than anything that set the GVWR on a truck. My trucks sags about 2 inches with my camper attached and I actually have no air in the ride-rites. I fill them to 40, even though I really don't need to. Nice to have piece of mind. I hate driving with my Jake brake and tow/haul switch engaged unless I am in the mountains. I just don't need the extra braking, and it is so rough; all that shifting. Truck and trailer stop fine. I am in group 2, as you have guessed. The police never turn around and follow me, no one on the street stops and points. All I ever hear is "Nice setup!". Cops certainly don't care. I kick it 70 MPH on the highway and don't give it a second thought. I try to do all my heavy braking early and I don't try to jump lights. I am slow through the neighborhood, it is all about common sense; and to think the police have nothing better to do but pull me over to check my GVWR passes NO common sense test whatsoever. It is all about how you feel behind the wheel, KNOWING how much it all weighs and distributing your load correctly. Stay under your GCWR and axle weights, check you air pressure and HAVE FUN!!!

[ramcneal]

When I posted my weights they were with the trailer empty after just picking up the new unit from the dealer. I mentioned that I would post again once after loading my trailer for our first trip.

The new weights are:

Steer: 4380 80 pounds more
Drive: 5480 220 more
Trailer: 7930 320 more
Total: 17780 620 more

These weights are from the same certified CAT scale each time. Obviously my wife and I don't pack alot of stuff. We're not full timers which means that much of our gear is added and removed after each trip. Since we're loading and unloading the trailer each time we pack light. For a weekend trip our trailer is 620lbs more than it was empty. This includes full propane tanks, but empty water. The day before we went on our shake down cruise the temps were below freezing and I didn't want to leave water in the fresh water tank without heat which is why I weighed it without water.

Okay. I've now weighed my rig three different times; empty truck, truck with new fifth wheel, and rig loaded for a weekend. I'll weight it one more time on the 7th of March after we've loaded the kitchen up with food for a week and clothes before our trip to Phoenix for Spring Training.

Am I overloaded? Strictly speaking yes I'm overloaded on the GVWR. I'm below the 6200lbs on the rear axle and well under the 20k for the combined weight. I'm going to look into Colorado's laws and see if they allow us to purchase a higher rating like TX. I've been told that TX allows you to run at your axle ratings, if you pay the licensing fee, which is higher than the GVWR which is a good indication to me that the GVWR is bogus. Add to that the difference between my 9000lbs GVWR 2500 and the 10,100lbs GVWR 3500 is a set of springs I feel very safe. I've upgraded the rear suspension and added an exhaust brake.

This is not an endorsement that people should blindly ignore ratings. After doing a bunch of reading on this forum and others for the past three months I've come to realize there are three different types of people when it comes to towing. (1) The weight police. These are the folks who state you can't, should not go over any of the ratings. End of story. (2) People like myself who read and understand their limits, understand just how much weight they are pulling. (3) The last group are the folks who heard about somebody who pulled 30k of hay on a 10k trailer without problems which means their little 1/2 ton truck can pull a 15k trailer safely. So what if the truck sags a little and takes three times the distance to stop. These folks are the ones who the group in #1 are really screaming at or about.

If you disagree with me I would love to hear it. Please feel free to either follow up this post a general education or send me a private message either through this board or at 'ramcneal @ gmail.com' (remove the spaces).

[maverick66]

Thanks a lot for your thoughts dubdub07. Yeah, I envision my truck being my everyday car as well, which is the primary source of hesitation in getting a dually.

[dubdub07]

maverick66 wrote:
Hey Everyone. Thanks so much for this great information. I am currently shopping for a truck with the purchase of our first 5-ver planned for 6-8 months from now. I've been debating between F250 diesel longbed and F350 diesel longbed dually. Although I would have liked to have the (relative) compact size of a SWD F250, after reading the posts and a number of articles I've decided to go with an F350 dually to give myself plenty of "room to grow" on the rear axle. I'll also likely opt for higher gear ratio to get extra towing capacity.

This will be my first dually truck and I just wanted to ask the folks out there if there are any major handling differences between a SWD and DWD. From a purely handling perspective do folks prefer one over the other? Also, is it a real pain to replace a tire or check the tire pressure on the inner tire of a dually? Thanks again everyone!

I drive my 2500 daily, to and from work, all around town and on trips. I lent it to a friend who drives an F150 and he couldn't believe how rough the ride is. I put it in my garage and zip around town with the best of them. I refuse to have an expensive truck and leave it outside in the Nebraska weather, but that is me. If I were full timing, I would go with DRW, but as a daily driver, I like my setup, a lot! Fully capable 3/4 ton one day, a little air in a bag and you have a one ton the next! I don't have enough weight (12500 gross on the 5er) to have a safety concern because I don't have a dually. If your truck doesn't sag and drives and stops good, you are fine with any 2500 or 3500. Very little difference. I know that I couldn't use a dually like my 2500, and I have to admit, I really like driving my TV. So I am not giving that up to have added "safety" when I don't need it. If you put my trailer on my truck and put the same trailer on a 3500 DRW at the bottom of a 7% grade, drop a green flag; both trucks will reach the top at the same time; safely. And for those of you who think a 3500 DRW will stop significantly faster than a 2500; keep this in mind. Both trucks with the same trailer going down a 7% grade will be just as safe as one another and slow and stop the same. As long as both are equipped for the load (2500 would need a helper spring or air bags), both trucks, DRW or SRW, perform the same. Your biggest safety concern is a tire failure due to a heavy load, so if you overload a 2500, you are really running the risk of that. The heavier, the more the risk. Air bags will give you more weight but will never give you blowout protection like a dual rear wheels. To think that 18000 lbs will be easily handled because you have a 3500 badge and 6 pieces of rubber on the ground is faulty logic. I should hope anybody pulling heavy weight is always cognizant of the weight behind them. Our hobby requires a lot thought, always, on and off the highways. That's what makes getting there so rewarding!

One more thought; I love my Cummins, but the Duramax is a beast AND has the proven Allison tranny. I drove one and LOVED it. Drives like gas with diesel perfomance! They are more expensive, though. That is why I went with the next best, Dodge and the Cummins. $10000 less and I got a Laramie.

[ramcneal]

dubdub07 wrote:

There is no difference, minus the rear leaf! Our weights are similar, and I don't expect any problems and I plan to tow through the mountains. It is a Cummins!

I never questioned that the engine could pull the load. I joke with my friends that I could hook a chain up to my house and pull it off the foundation with this engine. My concern was the rear end where the weight is located. After doing some investigation I am now comfortable that Dodge has overbuilt these trucks and that what I'm towing is within the ability of the vehicle.

If I had to do it all over again would I purchase a dually instead. I don't know. At this point I would probably buy a used Volvo 630, 770 or Kenworth T2000 and single out the rear end.

[maverick66]

Hey Everyone. Thanks so much for this great information. I am currently shopping for a truck with the purchase of our first 5-ver planned for 6-8 months from now. I've been debating between F250 diesel longbed and F350 diesel longbed dually. Although I would have liked to have the (relative) compact size of a SWD F250, after reading the posts and a number of articles I've decided to go with an F350 dually to give myself plenty of "room to grow" on the rear axle. I'll also likely opt for higher gear ratio to get extra towing capacity.

This will be my first dually truck and I just wanted to ask the folks out there if there are any major handling differences between a SWD and DWD. From a purely handling perspective do folks prefer one over the other? Also, is it a real pain to replace a tire or check the tire pressure on the inner tire of a dually? Thanks again everyone!

[dubdub07]

ramcneal wrote:
We just picked up our first 5th wheel today. I weighed my truck prior to having the hitch installed and today when I picked up my trailer. These numbers are from a certified CAT scale.

Just truck:
Steer axle: 4260
Drive axle: 2780
Total: 7040

Truck and 5th wheel
Steer axle: 4300
Drive axle: 5260
Trailer axle: 7600
Pin weight: 2480
Total: 17160

I plan getting a loaded weight again once I fill the propane takes and add about 30 gallons of water which is what we normally carry. From the looks of things the grey water tank is located over the trailer axles, not sure were the fresh water tank is located since the belly of the trailer is enclosed. So it'll be interesting to see how much weight is added to the pin. Two 30lb propane tanks should be about 80lbs I believe and 30 gallons of water is 249lbs.

My truck is a Dodge 2006 2500 Cummins, short bed with a GVWR of 9,000, RAWR 6,000 (tire limit, axle rating is 10k), and GCWR of 20,000.

My trailer is a 2008 Keystone Challenger 32RKS. This model has the kitchen in the very back and after loading our stuff I would actually expect my pin weight to be lighter since 90+% of the stuff we loaded went into the kitchen. Admittedly not much.

So, I'm over the GVWR by 560lbs. We've already loaded the trailer with our stuff which took my wife and I about 30 minutes. We both laughed because it seems like 90% of the cabinets are empty. I'm not worried about going over the GVWR for a couple of reasons. (1) A SRW 3500 with otherwise the same configuration has a GVWR of 10,100. Everything is the same except for the rear springs. (2) I added air bags and an exhaust brake. (3) When I towed it home I had to readjust my brake controller to apply less pressure because I could feel the trailer really pulling hard. I like a neutral feel when the trailer is hooked up and it indicates to me that the trailer has more than sufficient braking. (4) Finally, the mechanic said he let a little air out of my air bags when installing the hitch. When I got home and checked the pressure I found out he let all of the air out. My truck didn't even sag with the stock springs. Well, it did go down a little, but the truck ended up looking level instead of slightly high in the back.

So, some here may condemn me for going over the GVWR. To those I can only ask how is my truck any different than a 3500.

There is no difference, minus the rear leaf! Our weights are similar, and I don't expect any problems and I plan to tow through the mountains. It is a Cummins!

[SAS_]

usually you can reweigh at the same scale within so many hours(24?)for about a buck. just give them your weigh ticket number and tell them it's a reweigh. this way you Can weigh you whole setup and then weigh again with the trailer axles on different pads or drop the trailer and weigh just the truck and figure your pin/tongue weight.

[Brad_NSW]

Thanks. I need to weigh it so I know what's on each axle. I know I'm a bit over on Gross weight combined but should be under all axle weights. If not, I'll be looking for a dually.

THanks for the link to scales in San Diego!

Brad

[ramcneal]

Look at http://www.catscale.com and search for San Diego. Here's one that I found.

HWY 905 & Piper Ranch Road
Otay Mesa, CA 92154

There are probably other scales around, but you definitely want a certified scale. The CAT scale that I use has several large pads which make it easy to place each axle on a different pad. All except for the trailer axles since they are so close together. Not having separate values for the two or three trailer axles doesn't seem to be an issue since you just take the trailer weight and divide it by two or three (# of axles) and you know how much weight the trailer axles are carrying.

I don't know what it'll cost in San Diego, but at the Longmont, CO scale it's $9. I've already gone twice; once with just the empty truck, once with truck and 5th wheel which was unloaded. I'll go again this weekend.

What happens if you're over the GCWR. Good question. There are people on this forum and other forums that I read which will say you'll end up in purgatory if you go over any of the ratings. GVWR, GCWR, GAWR. At the same time there are folks at the opposite end who practically feel if your truck can move the weight you're fine. I'm in the middle, but lean towards the first group. The manufacturers have built these trucks with work loads in mind. To go over those numbers means you'll wear out parts of your truck at a faster rate than normal at a *minimum*. Going over the ratings could also be extremely unsafe for you and others around you. You need to make the choice. I did. My Dodge 2500 with my 5th wheel is over the GVWR. I started to read quite a bit before purchasing my trailer and found some interesting data. The Dodge 3500 outfitted the same as my 2500 of the same year has an 1,100lbs higher payload. The only difference between the two trucks is the rear springs. I modified my truck with air bags and adjustable high quality shocks. I now feel that my truck is equivalent to the 3500. Strictly speaking from a legal point of view my truck is no different today than it was when I bought it. My truck still has the sticker which indicates a GVWR of 9,000lbs.

Does that help?

[Brad_NSW]

Questions.

Where do you get the axle readouts? I'm in San Diego.
What does it cost?
What if you are over manufacturer's GCWR?

[ramcneal]

As you've probably read elsewhere. The pin weight advertise by the manufacturers is never the loaded weight. That would scare folks off. The manufacturers always state the dry or shipped weight. That is without many options that the dealer may install such as T.V.s, awnings, and sometimes chairs. Propane tanks weight something like 60lbs each. A battery is what ... 50lbs or so. Right there you're looking at 220bls. Anything you put in the storage area, which on all of the 5th wheels I've seen is between the trailer axles and the king pin, is split between the trailer axle and the king pin.

I hope to be weighing my rig this weekend. I weighed my truck empty and my truck with the new 5th wheel right after picking it up from the dealer. When I weigh it this weekend I'll know exactly how much I've added to the trailer. Since we're not full timers and my wife and I pack fairly light I don't expect a big shock. At the same time, I'm weighing the trailer so that I'll know the weight and not be guessing or assuming.

Who knows. Maybe I'll be so shocked at the weight increase I'll just have to sell my current truck and buy a used HDT. 🙂

[CG_Pilot]

Okay...Just got back from the scale. What a suprise!
2008 Silverado 3500 SRW D/A CC w/full fuel, tool box, B&W Hitch, Myself and DW
Fiver is 2008 Arctic Fox 27-5 pretty much ready to camp with full propane tanks, two batteries but no water.

TV without fiver:
Steer Axle: 4400
Drive Axle: 3600
Total Wt of truck w/o fiver is 8000

With fiver:
Steer Axle: 4400
Drive Axle: 5720
Trailer Axle: 7920
Pin Weight: 2120
Total Trailer Wt is 10040
Total Gross of truck when towing is 10120 (120 lbs over GVWR)
Combined Vehicle Wt is 18040

Curious thing is that the advertised pin weight of the fiver is only 1500 lbs. I didn't think I had a total of 600 lbs in the trailer much less having it all on the pin.

[DW-gray]

Lakemann wrote:
The scale I was on, was at the local garbage transfer station so I couldnt get axle weights. The truck is bone empty, nothing but me and full tank of fuel. No tools,no hitch,nothing! I find it hard to believe that this truck can only "legally" handle another 1380# of payload. When I throw my wife and kids into the mix, I'm looking at just around 1,000# payload. I bought this thing with the intentions of buying a small fifth wheel. Could the scale be off?

As compared to my former 2500, your scale weight appears to be about right. You need to find a 5th wheel with hitch weight of less than 1000 pounds so that you will be able to allow for the added gear, etc. I know this is not what you wanted to hear. The 2500 has the power to pull very heavy loads but isn't rated for it. I felt very comfortable with my 2500 pulling my Cyclone but I didn't want to risk it. My 2500 weight rating was: Front 5200#, Rear 6010# and GVWR 9000#. I didn’t even weigh it with the RV because it was too obvious. My 3500 cert label is: front 5200#, rear 9350# and GVWR 12,200#. I got a steal of a deal on the 3500.