Whats Your Real Weights? Truck and Trailer. The Real Deal

[juzplanekrazy]

I don’t know if it’s been done before or not but I was thinking about keeping a running list of real truck weights by year and type, and trailer weights by brand, size and what the total combined weight is of each guys rig. I was hoping the info would be a help for guys wondering about what the real weights are for a certain type of truck and to keep track of the more popular brand 5th wheel trailers. Another thing that will come out of it will be to see just how many guys really know what they are towing and if they know what their weight capacities are.
I’m sure it will take some time to compile a list and it will grow as guys add there info but I’m hoping it will help the newer guys in the long run to be directed back over to this thread in the future.
I’ll keep the TV lists to mainly the big 3 and from ¾ ton and up and I’ll try to keep the 5ers in a group by real GVW, length, and then manufacture. Any ideas are welcome as long as it makes things easier. And only real information can be given, so no guessing allowed. Only guys that have scaled there rigs or are totally certain of the weights.
Let’s see if I can keep the format real simple to type down and that will make it simpler for guys to refer back to and to keep track of.
Here we go……

TV - 2006 Dodge Mega Cab 3500 4x4, real scaled weight with full fuel, hitch, DH-DW and misc. gear = 7,500lbs. TV GVWR is 10,200lbs
5ver – KZ New Vision TH 38ft 14,500lbs loaded GVW. GVWR is 18,000lbs
Normal running TV & TH GCW weight= 22,500lbs, TV GCWR is 23,000lbs
Real Wet Pin Weight=2,950lbs

[avvidclif1]

DW-gray wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:
If anyone wants to stay at 14K you really are not going to be hauling a very large 5er.

Ford and Ram have one-ton dually trucks with 14K GVWR. Depending on the style and GVW, these trucks could realistically tow 23.3K to 27.5K fifth wheel. Are there any fifth wheel RVs with a GVWR more than that?

If anyone has a heavier 5th wheel, I hope they are towing with an MDT or HDT.

Where do you think the 14k number came from???? And why?

[DW-gray]

Cummins12V98 wrote:
If anyone wants to stay at 14K you really are not going to be hauling a very large 5er.

Ford and Ram have one-ton dually trucks with 14K GVWR. Depending on the style and GVW, these trucks could realistically tow 23.3K to 27.5K fifth wheel. Are there any fifth wheel RVs with a GVWR more than that?

If anyone has a heavier 5th wheel, I hope they are towing with an MDT or HDT.

[bpounds]

avvidclif1 wrote:
Go to here and get educated about the classes. It's not fiction or a fantasy. My CU will not finance over a Class 3. Just one thing it applies to.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truck_classification

That is a good article, but...

"This article is about commercial truck classifications. For passenger car and pickup classifications, see Car classifications."

And then it goes on to list all of the various pickup truck examples. And when you go to the Car Classifications link, there isn't much info on pickups.

[avvidclif1]

Go to here and get educated about the classes. It's not fiction or a fantasy. My CU will not finance over a Class 3. Just one thing it applies to.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truck_classification

[Cummins12V98]

"One of your points was "The 14k is to keep the truck in the class 3." How do you know that? Where is a document with that claim? Do you have a document stating that the truck in has been derated? If so, how much? "

I have NO proof other than as I have explained before. How can they have a RAWR of 9,750# and simply not add a pound to the unloaded FAW of around 5,100# without going OVER the GVWR???

I am within FAWR and at RAWR and within GCVWR. There is not a Law Enforcement Agency that will give me a ticket unless I don't have the tonnage to cover my trucks GVW.

You think any of those test results would change with a 37,800# "rated" combined load if the truck was at 14K or 15K?

If anyone wants to stay at 14K you really are not going to be hauling a very large 5er.

[JIMNLIN]

NPRM DOT Docket No. NHTSA-2007-0040
RIN 2127-AJ57
page 68454
(snipped for length)
NHTSA's Office of Vehicle
Safety Compliance (OVSC) enforces current NHTSA regulations and will
enforce the requirements in this final rule when it becomes effective.
We note that actual RV crash data specific to crashes where an
overloaded RV is a contributing factor are rare.** end of quote

Wrecks while pulling a trailer can be contributed to many reasons not related to a actual over loaded vehicle.

DW-gray wrote:
One of your points was "The 14k is to keep the truck in the class 3." How do you know that? Where is a document with that claim? Do you have a document stating that the truck in has been derated? If so, how much?

I didn't make that statement about 14k class of truck being derated.

[rhagfo]

Interesting that all three accidents are trailer disconnected accidents. Could be exceeding hitch ratings, or just stupid mistakes!

[DW-gray]

bpounds wrote:

DW-gray wrote:
...by the way, 60 of the tow vehicles towing trailers exceed at least one weight safety rating.

And we all know how the highways are littered with wrecked RVs. NOT. All that statistic does is illustrate the manufacturer specs are next to meaningless.

Nor are the highways littered with auto accidents. Those who turn a blind eye will never see the truth. Just because you may have never driven by one, doesn't mean they never happen. I wish your assertion was true about the number of trailer and RV related accidents.

Here are just a few major wrecks since Memorial Day that made it on internet news reports. There are countless numbers that aren't reported for us to read about.

One killed, three injured after bad crash in Lincoln County-Six-month-old baby died days later

KY man suffered major injuries in Jefferson Co., IL crash

3 Amarillo men die when detached trailer crashes into road workers

********
RV App creator to donate proceeds to family of baby killed in Lincoln County crash
********

A report released by the Federal Motor Carrier Safety administration’s report in 2003 said that more than 70,000 people were involved in RV accidents that year. In 2012, they reported 75,000 injuries due to RV accidents.

A Fatality Analysis Reporting System (FARS) analysis of data between 2000 and 2007 found that a total of 212 people died in RV accidents in those years. At 26 deaths per year, the rate of RV deaths has an average fatality rate of 1/3 of the average rate of all vehicles or 0.44per 100 million vehicles miles versus 1.48 for all vehicles in the US.

[bpounds]

DW-gray wrote:
...by the way, 60 of the tow vehicles towing trailers exceed at least one weight safety rating.

And we all know how the highways are littered with wrecked RVs. NOT. All that statistic does is illustrate the manufacturer specs are next to meaningless.

[DW-gray]

JIMNLIN wrote:

Your opinion does not line up with SAE J2807 methodology and the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards, Title 49, Section 751.105.

And then asks
If you can provide a document supporting your opinion about the GVWR of 14K, please do so. I would very much like to read it.

You talk about oranges and ask a guy to supply a document about apples.
J2807 is a series of tests to determine a GCWR recommendation and says;
Scope:
This document establishes minimum performance criteria at GCWR and calculation methodology to determine tow-vehicle TWR for passenger cars, multipurpose passenger vehicles and trucks. This includes all vehicles up to 13 000 lb GVWR. It is recommended that the performance requirements within be adopted for all vehicles with model year designation 2013 or later.**

Two items of interest ...
1. Cummins truck is 14000 lbs GVWR and isn't covered in the J2807 recommendation.
2. J2807 only effects those 13k and smaller vehicles built after around 2013.
3. J2807 is nothing regulatory in nature or carry any legal implications for any trucks on the road.
4. I see no CFR 49 751.105 regulation

Apparently, you are reading an outdated J2087. I have the most current document dated FEB2016.

1.SCOPE
This document establishes minimum performance criteria at GCWR and calculation methodology to determine tow-vehicle TWR for passenger cars, multipurpose passenger vehicles and trucks. This includes all vehicles up to 14000 lb GVWR.

True, none of the SAE Standards are regulatory and auto manufacturers can ignore it altogether.

One of your points was "The 14k is to keep the truck in the class 3." How do you know that? Where is a document with that claim? Do you have a document stating that the truck in has been derated? If so, how much?

As an RV safety educator promoting safe towing by not exceeding any of the weight safety ratings, I am ethically bound to the ratings that the manufacturers publish. Not what you or I think what a vehicle may be capable of doing, nor will I follow what the crowd is doing. Which by the way, 60% of the tow vehicles towing trailers exceed at least one weight safety rating.

[JIMNLIN]

Your opinion does not line up with SAE J2807 methodology and the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards, Title 49, Section 751.105.

And then asks
If you can provide a document supporting your opinion about the GVWR of 14K, please do so. I would very much like to read it.

You talk about oranges and ask a guy to supply a document about apples.
J2807 is a series of tests to determine a GCWR recommendation and says;
Scope:
This document establishes minimum performance criteria at GCWR and calculation methodology to determine tow-vehicle TWR for passenger cars, multipurpose passenger vehicles and trucks. This includes all vehicles up to 13 000 lb GVWR. It is recommended that the performance requirements within be adopted for all vehicles with model year designation 2013 or later.**

Two items of interest ...
1. Cummins truck is 14000 lbs GVWR and isn't covered in the J2807 recommendation.
2. J2807 only effects those 13k and smaller vehicles built after around 2013.
3. J2807 is nothing regulatory in nature or carry any legal implications for any trucks on the road.
4. I see no CFR 49 751.105 regulation

[DW-gray]

Cummins12V98 wrote:

DW-gray wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:
GVWR is usually not as important as axle ratings since many times they equal tire capacity.

Sorry, but I do not agree. If you would take notice, the GVWR will be exceeded before the sum of the GAWRs for normal towing setup. All owner's manuals clearly warn not to exceed the GVWR and GAWRs. Braking capacity is based on the GVWR, not the GAWRs.

Example, my RAM DRW is 14K GVWR. My RAWR is 9,750# my FAWR is 6,000#. If I load my rear axle to it's rating and don't load a single thing on my front axle I will be well over my GVWR. The 14k is to keep the truck in the class 3. If over that the insurance and licensing will be much higher. Another example the F450 is 14K. Rear axle weight will determine what can be safely towed with a 5er on most SRW's.

Your opinion does not line up with SAE J2807 methodology and the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards, Title 49, Section 751.105. If you can provide a document supporting your opinion about the GVWR of 14K, please do so. I would very much like to read it.

[Cummins12V98]

DW-gray wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:
GVWR is usually not as important as axle ratings since many times they equal tire capacity.

Sorry, but I do not agree. If you would take notice, the GVWR will be exceeded before the sum of the GAWRs for normal towing setup. All owner's manuals clearly warn not to exceed the GVWR and GAWRs. Braking capacity is based on the GVWR, not the GAWRs.

Example, my RAM DRW is 14K GVWR. My RAWR is 9,750# my FAWR is 6,000#. If I load my rear axle to it's rating and don't load a single thing on my front axle I will be well over my GVWR. The 14k is to keep the truck in the class 3. If over that the insurance and licensing will be much higher. Another example the F450 is 14K. Rear axle weight will determine what can be safely towed with a 5er on most SRW's.

[LT_29]

Thank You for the reply's.. My GVWR is 11000 and i'm at about 10600.

[DW-gray]

Cummins12V98 wrote:
GVWR is usually not as important as axle ratings since many times they equal tire capacity.

Sorry, but I do not agree. If you would take notice, the GVWR will be exceeded before the sum of the GAWRs for normal towing setup. All owner's manuals clearly warn not to exceed the GVWR and GAWRs. Braking capacity is based on the GVWR, not the GAWRs.