Who has been pulled over for double towing illegally???

fj12ryder wrote:
Personally I'd feel very unsafe passing, or being passed, by this particular setup. There is no way that conglomeration of vehicles could be controlled in any kind of panic situation or panic stop. That, to my mind, is what makes it unsafe. A guy pulling one trailer behind his 5th wheel may be illegal, but not necessarily unsafe. This combination of vehicles was unsafe and should have been pulled over. Control in anything other than straight and steady would be impossible.

OTOH people doing 10 mph over the limit in a controlled manner are not inherently unsafe. Contrary to popular postings, speed doesn't kill, unsafe drivers kill, whether they are speeding and driving erratically, or driving an obvious unsafe combination of vehicles.

Old, old study, repeated many times. If you "unpost" a road for several months and let people set their own speed and clock the traffic, then set the speed limit of 85% of the average speed clocked, you'll have better traffic flow with very few accidents or need to stop people. The stupidest thing going is in Kalifornicate (where else), where vehicles with trailers are relegated to 55 mph, while the rest of traffic whizzes by at 65-70+. The =difference= in speed is the real cause of accidents and the =worst= accidents. I drive a 25 mile stretch of freeway 2x per day, usually in bumper-to-bumper. There is an HOV lane on the inside. The worst accidents happen when the main traffic is at a near-standstill and the HOV traffic is moving at or above the 65 mph posted limit. Someone will invariably jump out of the slow traffic and into the HOV lane, then get rear-ended by someone there moving at 65-70 mph. Almost a daily occurrence. If AZ were truly serious about traffic safety, they'd install automated speed limit signs that would =change= the speed limit depending on traffic conditions, especially in the HOV lane.

Lyle

If you had common sense you would realize there are too many laws to enforce ALL of them ALL of the time. It's kinda like the checkoff list a quarterback goes thru when passing. Start with things that can cause serious bodily harm and down to lesser levels, then to property loss or damage. And then you have to answer calls for service. Some laws overrule a call for service, some don't. Starting to get the picture??? It's a balancing act.

Wadcutter wrote:

transamz9 wrote:
I read your post just fine the first time. I can also see the there is no way of having a friendly conversation because of all the questions and the way you asked them.

Please, don't try to cover up your real reason for asking. You made your real feelings shown. You aren't at all interested in a 'friendly conversation'. You just want to show your true side that you don't think he should have been stopped.
Proof of that? You next few sentences proved your true motive

I'm just saying that I think if you are going to enforce 1 then you should enforce all. This guy was probably just heading out on a nice vacation not bothering a sole not causing any harm taking his time trying to get from point A to point B and relax.

There you go. You've proven my point. You have your motive for asking questions and it had nothing to do with a 'friendly conversation'.
So you've expressed your opinion. You think all the other laws should be applied except those that affect you. Just like the you did when I stopped you that day. Stop the other guy, not me.

You pulling him over and all you accomplish was ruining his vacation and you getting some out of state money.

Again you're showing your true motive for this discussion. Just to show how little you know:
The state didn't get any of the fine money. All fine money in IL went to the county and city where the violation occurred.
I didn't ruin anything. It wasn't me who violated the law. It wasn't me who hooked his 4 vehicles together. He had a free choice and he chose wrong.

Also now if he wants to do this again he will have to burn twice as much fuel and put twice as much pollutants out by driving two vehicles.

You're such an environmentalist. So your real motive for getting upset about the stop was he was just saving the environment.

All because it's a law that by the way was probably made by people that have never towed anything in their life and they think it looks unsafe.

Once again you've shown just how little you know. Here's a fact that may educate you a bot. Nearly every statute on the books was either written or endorsed by attorneys and lobbyists for the Midwest Trucker's Association or the Teamsters.

On the other side of this, those people that are running 1,2,5,10 over the speed limit are doing it because they couldn't drag their bottoms out of bed early enough to get to work on time so they try to make it up on the road. With that driving over the speed limit comes people getting cut off, road rage, and all sorts of SAFE things. You as a LEO didn't see these cut offs and road rages and things because when a LEO is around it's funny how people can just fall in line and drive like they have some sense......until you're out of sight then it's back to driving crazy and now it's worse because they lost 15 seconds having to drive normal around a LEO.

What an amazing revelation. I never would have known that had you not said it. Think of this tho while you're preaching. Do you think a LEO drives around in a marked vehicle 24 hrs a day and never ventures out in their personal vehicle. You think LEOs don't see the same thing when out with their families?

If you re-read you said that you did not pull him over because he looked unsafe. You said you pulled him over because he was illegal. Driving 1 MPH is just as "Illegal" as 5 MPH or 20 MPH or 4 vehicles hooked together. Am I not right about this? The law is the law correct?

That's your best argument? Really? You can't see the difference? Seriously? What a joke. Thanks for the bit of humor.

Now if you had pulled him over and he didn't have sufficient brakes for his rig or tires or anything else that would make it unsafe then write away.

And the guy with no brakes or bad tires thinks he's perfectly fine and safe. You wouldn't believe the excuses. Or maybe you would because you've come up with some real good ones yourself.

I could never do you job for many reasons but giving some laws slack and others not is unfair and that is JMO.

I agree you couldn't. It takes a bit of common sense.

Okay ,now you can tell me how stupid and wrong I am with more of your questions.;)

I don't have to. You've done a pretty good job yourself.
Nothing more from me. A 'friendly conversation' is always welcome. That was never your intentions tho. You just want to blow of steam. Feel better?

You're right I must not have any common sense because I actually thought I might have gotten a straight answer right from the horses mouth. Sorry I asked a professional a question why something is done the way it is. I guess I will just have to continue to think the way I do because I haven't been proven wrong yet, by you or any of the LEO's I have as very good friends and family members.

I truly was just asking a question and not trying to start anything. If I had asked the question "why are some laws enforce while other are ignored" to just and everyday person that has/had nothing to do with LE do you think I could have trusted the answer? Sorry I even tried. I believe I already know the answer but politics aren't allowed to be talked about.

Again I have never and probably will never be in your town so no it wasn't me you stopped. I won't pull three trailers anyway.;)

In California the rule for pulling two trailers is 75' length limit providing neither trailer is over 28.5 ft. If one of the trailers is over that length then the over all length limit is 65 ft.

As far as odd towing combinations go, check out the guy below. Motor home, quad, pickup truck and a trailer with an airplane on it!!!! Saw this on highway 99 northbound a bit over a year ago.

http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i322/Steve_Scarboro/plane1_zpsba4c19e5.jpg

Sorry for the URL but my iPad won't let me use the upload feature

Steve

If a single semi stopping, or trying to stop, can jackknife, what do you think the chances of 4(!) vehicles getting stopped in a safe manner.

You've driven 4 vehicles on an interstate before? Ask someone who's pulled three different types of vehicles with different types of braking systems and find out how hard it would be to get all of them to act together. Then add one more. It's unsafe, pure and simple.

Why pick the guy going 75 mph and weaving through traffic over the guy going 75 mph in his own lane and driving safely? Because one is safe and one isn't. Pretty easy question. That's why you pull over someone trying to go down the road with too many trailers.

fj12ryder wrote:
Don't be silly. You're comparing apples and oranges. Do you really think that group of vehicles is going to be controllable in a panic, or emergency situation? Like if he had to swerve to avoid something in the highway or stop very quickly. Be reasonable, some regulations are there for a reason.

And I agree with you on some points: driver's license examinations should be tougher from day one. And yes, some people have no business driving a big fifth wheel or coach. But that does not negate the fact that some things are flat out unsafe.

One of the reasons for speed limits is revenue generation and the other is an advisory of what a safe speed is for the area. And yes, you're absolutely right: "We should just be able to run as fast as we want as long as it's safe right?" that's exactly right. "As long as it's safe"!!

When the brakes are set up correctly and the operator drives accordingly to the conditions then they handle fine. Believe it or not when the tow vehicle changes lanes so does all the trailers behind it. The trailer don't know how many vehicles are in front of it it only knows it needs to follow the one it's hooked to. It's the operators job to know what the trailers are going to do in an emergency.

As far as an emergency, what would you call an emergency? If you can't stop then you are following too close for the circumstances. How well do you think a semi weighing 80,000# stops from a highway speed? What about one that weighs 120,000#? You drive according to what you are driving. Wadcutter didn't say the guy was being unsafe he said the guy was illegal. I'm saying that a lot of the vehicles that were on that road that day were probably illegal as far as the "LAW" is concerned. Why pick one over the other?

transamz9 wrote:
I read your post just fine the first time. I can also see the there is no way of having a friendly conversation because of all the questions and the way you asked them.

Please, don't try to cover up your real reason for asking. You made your real feelings shown. You aren't at all interested in a 'friendly conversation'. You just want to show your true side that you don't think he should have been stopped.
Proof of that? You next few sentences proved your true motive

I'm just saying that I think if you are going to enforce 1 then you should enforce all. This guy was probably just heading out on a nice vacation not bothering a sole not causing any harm taking his time trying to get from point A to point B and relax.

There you go. You've proven my point. You have your motive for asking questions and it had nothing to do with a 'friendly conversation'.
So you've expressed your opinion. You think all the other laws should be applied except those that affect you. Just like the you did when I stopped you that day. Stop the other guy, not me.

You pulling him over and all you accomplish was ruining his vacation and you getting some out of state money.

Again you're showing your true motive for this discussion. Just to show how little you know:
The state didn't get any of the fine money. All fine money in IL went to the county and city where the violation occurred.
I didn't ruin anything. It wasn't me who violated the law. It wasn't me who hooked his 4 vehicles together. He had a free choice and he chose wrong.

Also now if he wants to do this again he will have to burn twice as much fuel and put twice as much pollutants out by driving two vehicles.

You're such an environmentalist. So your real motive for getting upset about the stop was he was just saving the environment.

All because it's a law that by the way was probably made by people that have never towed anything in their life and they think it looks unsafe.

Once again you've shown just how little you know. Here's a fact that may educate you a bot. Nearly every statute on the books was either written or endorsed by attorneys and lobbyists for the Midwest Trucker's Association or the Teamsters.

On the other side of this, those people that are running 1,2,5,10 over the speed limit are doing it because they couldn't drag their bottoms out of bed early enough to get to work on time so they try to make it up on the road. With that driving over the speed limit comes people getting cut off, road rage, and all sorts of SAFE things. You as a LEO didn't see these cut offs and road rages and things because when a LEO is around it's funny how people can just fall in line and drive like they have some sense......until you're out of sight then it's back to driving crazy and now it's worse because they lost 15 seconds having to drive normal around a LEO.

What an amazing revelation. I never would have known that had you not said it. Think of this tho while you're preaching. Do you think a LEO drives around in a marked vehicle 24 hrs a day and never ventures out in their personal vehicle. You think LEOs don't see the same thing when out with their families?

If you re-read you said that you did not pull him over because he looked unsafe. You said you pulled him over because he was illegal. Driving 1 MPH is just as "Illegal" as 5 MPH or 20 MPH or 4 vehicles hooked together. Am I not right about this? The law is the law correct?

That's your best argument? Really? You can't see the difference? Seriously? What a joke. Thanks for the bit of humor.

Now if you had pulled him over and he didn't have sufficient brakes for his rig or tires or anything else that would make it unsafe then write away.

And the guy with no brakes or bad tires thinks he's perfectly fine and safe. You wouldn't believe the excuses. Or maybe you would because you've come up with some real good ones yourself.

I could never do you job for many reasons but giving some laws slack and others not is unfair and that is JMO.

I agree you couldn't. It takes a bit of common sense.

Okay ,now you can tell me how stupid and wrong I am with more of your questions.;)

I don't have to. You've done a pretty good job yourself.
Nothing more from me. A 'friendly conversation' is always welcome. That was never your intentions tho. You just want to blow of steam. Feel better?

Don't be silly. You're comparing apples and oranges. Do you really think that group of vehicles is going to be controllable in a panic, or emergency situation? Like if he had to swerve to avoid something in the highway or stop very quickly. Be reasonable, some regulations are there for a reason.

And I agree with you on some points: driver's license examinations should be tougher from day one. And yes, some people have no business driving a big fifth wheel or coach. But that does not negate the fact that some things are flat out unsafe.

One of the reasons for speed limits is revenue generation and the other is an advisory of what a safe speed is for the area. And yes, you're absolutely right: "We should just be able to run as fast as we want as long as it's safe right?" that's exactly right. "As long as it's safe"!!

fj12ryder wrote:
Personally I'd feel very unsafe passing, or being passed, by this particular setup. There is no way that conglomeration of vehicles could be controlled in any kind of panic situation or panic stop. That, to my mind, is what makes it unsafe. A guy pulling one trailer behind his 5th wheel may be illegal, but not necessarily unsafe. This combination of vehicles was unsafe and should have been pulled over. Control in anything other than straight and steady would be impossible.

OTOH people doing 10 mph over the limit in a controlled manner are not inherently unsafe. Contrary to popular postings, speed doesn't kill, unsafe drivers kill, whether they are speeding and driving erratically, or driving an obvious unsafe combination of vehicles.

The guy was running straight down the road. Have you ever driven a multi-trailer rig? How do you know how they handle? Perfect example right here. You think they look unsafe so they must be. Now, as far as that goes, half the people I see pulling a fifthwheel or driving a big motorhome have no business doing it. It's not illegal so it must be safe right?

Pulling a big fifth wheel is really no different than driving a day cab semi pulling a pup trailer and you have to have a special license for that. Why? It's so they know that you can handle the rig and that you know how to recognize possible problems and issues with the rig before getting out on the road and breaking down or even worse , having or causing an accident.

I personally think that everyone should go through the same things a commercial driver does as far as license go. I mean you have to have a license to ride a bike. Everyone rode bicycles when they are kids. What's that saying? You never forget how to ride a bike.

If speed doesn't kill then why do we have speed limits? We should just be able to run as fast as we want as long as it's safe right? They make these laws to keep us safe. Protect and serve but yet they pick and choose which laws get enforced and which ones don't.

Personally I'd feel very unsafe passing, or being passed, by this particular setup. There is no way that conglomeration of vehicles could be controlled in any kind of panic situation or panic stop. That, to my mind, is what makes it unsafe. A guy pulling one trailer behind his 5th wheel may be illegal, but not necessarily unsafe. This combination of vehicles was unsafe and should have been pulled over. Control in anything other than straight and steady would be impossible.

OTOH people doing 10 mph over the limit in a controlled manner are not inherently unsafe. Contrary to popular postings, speed doesn't kill, unsafe drivers kill, whether they are speeding and driving erratically, or driving an obvious unsafe combination of vehicles.