WW diet

[allcool]

Wanted to see if my 1700-2200lb tongue weight and 15,000+gvw could be trimmed to a more reasonable level.
Too my surprise, was somewhat successful...
Although its no ultra light by any means,getting 10mpg @60-70mph.

Started with the pantry and kitchen cabinets, since they are in front of the axles...

Threw away lots of older canned goods, not used kitchen stuff like heavy pots/pans, excess plates/silver, etc.

Then went to the main cabinets and central area of my TH. Removed lots of older non used spare SxS parts, tools, winter bedding.
Did the same to front bedroom, and the pull out non-pass thru storage drawer.

More or less got rid of everything that was not needed for a possible summer Saint Antony trip.

Put my Turbo RzR as far back as possible. Rear wheels are almost touching the back door, right on the beaver tail.
All tools, pressure washer, floor jack, dune paddles, cases of water,etc,,, are all in the very rear within 2-3' of the back door.

The rear genny fuel tank 20gals is filled, the rear race fuel tank, 40 gals is also full.

All water tanks drained, all holding tanks drained, except for maybe 2-3 gallons of water/chemical in black tank.Drained 10gal hot water tank.

Went to the scales and was amazed at the results, my TH has never been so 'light'.

Think I've gotten it down to or close too new F250 tow weights...
That was what I had to use this trip, a new with only 5000 miles, 2016 F250xlt.
The Trucks receiver said 1900max tongue and 19,000 max tow gvw. Surprised my personal 2014 F350 Platinum receiver says 1850max tongue, 1850max gvw..? My new heavy duty 2.5" WD hitch worked much much better than the old pin destroyer 2" sleeve set up I had been using.

Here is the scale slip, stopped on my way back to Phx from the dunes.
Disconnected my TH from the truck.
Front scale pad was both truck axles.
Second scale pad was only the front tongue jack, with the TH leveled out, tongue jack on blocks.
Third scale pad was all 3 TH axles.

[eundercoffler]

lincster wrote:
Truck sounds good as far as tires etc.
I think your tongue weight might be a little low.
Even with my triple axle FS3000, I had 1400lbs of tongue weight.
A dual axle will be even more.

Mine is a tripple axle too.

Thanks,
Eric

[lincster]

Truck sounds good as far as tires etc.
I think your tongue weight might be a little low.
Even with my triple axle FS3000, I had 1400lbs of tongue weight.
A dual axle will be even more.

[eundercoffler]

Ok lets see, the truck is a 2003, the trailer is a 2008. It has the older 7.3L diesel (last year this was available). It is 4-wheel drive with the Fx4 package. The suspension is stock (no lift) with the exception of Firestone air bladders which I run at the minimum pressure of 5psi while using a WD hitch as per both Husky and Firestone recommendations. The manual says that with my configuration I have a max trailer weight of 12,500 lbs. It has Michelin LTX M/S2 load range "E" tires that I run with 80 PSI while towing.

I don't remember what tires the trailer has on it (it's at storage right now) but they are 15 inch trailer tires run at 60 PSI. Triple axle

I have weighed the trailer and it is 10,180 LBS as is, before water, food, clothes etc. The truck weighs 7,448 LBS with a full tank of diesel, camper shell and me in it.

I have a tunge weight scale and it is right around 1,100 LBS. I don't remember the exact measurement but it is right around there.

According to all of that info I should be within specs for both the trailer (which has a max loaded weight of 12,300 LBS) and the truck (max trailer weight of 12,500 and max GCWR of 20,000 LBS).

The sticker on the door frame of the truck says I have a GVWR of 8,800 LBS so if I understand that correctly that would be the weight of the truck and the tongue weight (7,440 LBS + 1,100 LBS = 8,540 LBS) leaves me 260 LBS for passengers and added tongue weight (not much but still under).

I think that answers all the questions.

Thanks for your help.
Eric

[allcool]

eundercoffler wrote:
Hey Alcool,
Thanks for posting this information. I am curious what your tow set up is. I have a 2008 FSC2800 that I tow with a 2003 Ford F-250 supercab short bed.

The trailer ways right around 10,000 lbs as it sits with our supplies (pots, pans, bedding, games, etc) but no fluids, food, water, clothes etc. It has a tongue weight of right around 1,100 lbs.
Just curious what set up you use to tow considering yours is longer and heavier than mine.

Thanks,
Eric

We do need more info on your tow truck and set up...
A 2008 F250 might be close to not enough truck for WW 2008 FSC2800, depending on its door sticker capacity ratings..?

I'd also be skeptical of your WW 2008 fsc2800 being 10,000lb gvw, fully loaded, with no water...? Its a triple axle..? Have you scaled it un-hitched from tow vehicle..? Getting your exact accurate weights is important in figuring out your problem.

From my latest experience outlined in this thread, I find going back to basic towing guide lines is really all thats needed. Its already all been figured out for many decades now, no rocket science.

If your hitch is set up correctly and your tow vehicle is of the proper capacity to tow your TH, then go back to basics.
If it sways, increase the tongue weight. Its so simple many of us overlook the basics. My WW diet proved this to me.

Went from a huge tongue weight with absolutely no sway ever, even without my friction sway bar, to excessive high speed sway with the sway bar torqued all the way down tight as it would go. Only difference was a big change in tongue weight.

Basic tow guide lines say 10-15% of total gvw should be put on the tongue. Well, thats a rather large range for tongue weight. I would suggest experimenting with more tongue weight up to the 15%. My bet is that will cure all your sway.

Contrary to popular belief, big tongue weight isn't always a bad thing, as long as your TV can handle it. If it comes down to what is safer, a slightly over loaded tongue weight, or a trailer that sways excessively, you will have to make that call...


My hitch is a 1800lb tongue, bar/chain/friction sway set up. The last Truck I towed with was 2016 F250xlt srw, 6.7turbo diesel, 4x4, with anti sway(whatever that is). My personal truck, 2014 F350 Platinum doesn't tow my fsw3200 much different, it is a couple inches higher with more TW capacity.
Trailer tires are Michelin XPS ribs 235/85 16", 80psi.

With my WW diet, found not enough tongue weight was the only contributing factor for sway, on my set up.

I found it almost impossible to reduce tongue weight without almost completely unloading the front 2/3 of my TH, and moving almost all weight to the rear, as close to the ramp door as possible. My SxS rear tires are almost touching the ramp door, and almost all of my 'stuff' is 2-3' from the ramp door.

The exception to this 'go back to basics' might be some of the very expensive Hensley type contraptions that are suppose to eliminate all sway.
Have heard good things about them. Although for me, last time I looked, their capacity was not up the task of a very heavy TH like mine.

If it were mine, I'd start with a cat scale and spend some time there getting the trailer level and dis-connected, position tongue/axles correctly on the individual pads.
Then start moving weight forward till you get to 15% tongue weight. Try it out and see if it makes the difference. Its easier to increase TW than to decrease it, imo. On my TH just filling the 160gal water tanks will increase my TW by hundreds of lbs. Be careful traveling with water. Generally, full tanks or empty are the way to go. As half full 'tank slosh' is killer on the tanks/mounts/piping/etc...

jmo

[lincster]

eundercoffler wrote:
Hey Alcool,
Thanks for posting this information. I am curious what your tow set up is. I have a 2008 FSC2800 that I tow with a 2003 Ford F-250 supercab short bed. I have a heck of a time with it, it pushes me all over the place and sways/wonders a lot. The trailer ways right around 10,000 lbs as it sits with our supplies (pots, pans, bedding, games, etc) but no fluids, food, water, clothes etc. It has a tongue weight of right around 1,100 lbs. I recently replaced my stock hitch with a Curt class V, 2 inch hitch reciever which has a max tongue weight of 2,500 lbs and a max trailer weight of 17,000 lbs. I also replaced the original Husky WD hitch with round bars, chains and a separate sway bar with a new Husky Center Line HD hitch. I like the new hitch a lot better, it has no chains to mess with and built in sway control at the head. Though this set up is better and there is less play in the Curt hitch receiver, I still do get pushed around a bit.

As far as the hitch set up goes, the ball/head is angled all the way down and I use the 1,000 - 1,400 lb spring bars. I have tried adjusting the brackets on the frame in several different positions and I never can get the truck to settle evenly, the back end always settles more than the front no matter what I do.

Just curious what set up you use to tow considering yours is longer and heavier than mine.

Thanks,
Eric

Need more info on your truck.
What tires?
What tire pressure?
Do you have a lift?

Not all sway is due just to hitch type and setup.

If you run D rated tires at 35 psi, that will give you lots of sway. Just an example.

[eundercoffler]

Hey Alcool,
Thanks for posting this information. I am curious what your tow set up is. I have a 2008 FSC2800 that I tow with a 2003 Ford F-250 supercab short bed. I have a heck of a time with it, it pushes me all over the place and sways/wonders a lot. The trailer ways right around 10,000 lbs as it sits with our supplies (pots, pans, bedding, games, etc) but no fluids, food, water, clothes etc. It has a tongue weight of right around 1,100 lbs. I recently replaced my stock hitch with a Curt class V, 2 inch hitch reciever which has a max tongue weight of 2,500 lbs and a max trailer weight of 17,000 lbs. I also replaced the original Husky WD hitch with round bars, chains and a separate sway bar with a new Husky Center Line HD hitch. I like the new hitch a lot better, it has no chains to mess with and built in sway control at the head. Though this set up is better and there is less play in the Curt hitch receiver, I still do get pushed around a bit.

As far as the hitch set up goes, the ball/head is angled all the way down and I use the 1,000 - 1,400 lb spring bars. I have tried adjusting the brackets on the frame in several different positions and I never can get the truck to settle evenly, the back end always settles more than the front no matter what I do.

Just curious what set up you use to tow considering yours is longer and heavier than mine.

Thanks,
Eric

[lincster]

allcool wrote:

lincster wrote:
Everything looks great!!!

Trailer sits nice and level.

Great job.

How was the dunes?

Thanks, the diet did help.
We've got to do a ride nest season.

Dunes were awesome. I'm told it blew hard a few days before and then rained a little, then blew again.
Made for some smooth sand on top of a maybe 1" crust under the soft sand, giving unreal traction. No one was there but us.

We took a complete tour from Osborne, Olds, to roadrunner to hill 6, China wall, Taco bowl,lizard hill,flagpole, back to GDS, . Burned up a full tank. It did start to get a little hot by afternoon.

Going to try a Saint Anthony dune trip this summer. Be a good break to escapee the heat in the mountains. Might even do a Yellowstone/Tetons side trip after dunes.
You ever been up to St. Anthony..?

That sounds like an awesome trip.
I would love to meet up next season.

Never been to St.Anthony. That would be quite the haul for me.

[Dirtclods]

My 07 19Ft" Attitude drys weighs 5800 loaded 7200

[BigDogF250]

I have the same experiences with my FSC3200, completely unloaded and empty it really wanted to wag the dog. After a white knuckle trip taking it in for service I now would leave water in the tanks which are at or just in front of the axles. Loaded it's stable as a rock.

Cool experiment with weight though, it's amazing how much stuff we jam in cabinets "just in case".

[jmtandem]

I've found my FSW 3200 tows a little different from before diet. Before it would never ever sway, no matter what, with its 1700+lb tongue, probably over 2000+lb

This is an interesting discussion. Weekend Warriors, especially the bigger and heavier ones, were almost always heavier than any brochure weights. They also were the pioneer toy hauler makers and made great coaches.

Go to the scales and weigh your toy hauler and be sure you have 10 and up to 15 percent of the total weight loaded and ready for traveling on the tongue. That goes a long ways in keeping sway from occurring.

Adding 160 gallons of water adds 1330 pounds cutting seriously into your diet numbers.

At 11,300 pounds triple axle weights the tongue weight would be at 13 percent 1470 pounds and that is pretty much empty. However, adding the 1460 scaled tongue weight to 11,300 equals approximately 12,700 total WW weight. And then calculating around 13 percent for the tongue and that works out to 1650 pounds. You might be a little light on the tongue at 1460. And as you load more toys in the back it takes weight off the tongue. Tongue too light equals propensity for sway.


Good luck in however you figure it out.

[allcool]

jmtandem wrote:

and 15,000+gvw

Wow, that is impressively heavy for a tow behind trailer.

Well I'm not as impressed by the tongue weight. 🙂

Think I've developed new insight into WW. They're smarter than I thought and gave them credit for. They made the tongue weight heavy for a reason. They knew guys were going to load a v8 sand car in the back. After years of making TH, they know exactly where to locate the axles and how much tongue to have. 10+ years ago not many srw trucks could actually tow them within their limits though...?

After my WW diet and new found light weight tongue, I've found my FSW 3200 tows a little different from before diet. Before it would never ever sway, no matter what, with its 1700+lb tongue, probably over 2000+lb most of the time when in full loaded camping form before diet.
Now, when passing/being passed by 18wheelers going up/down grades over 68mph, it does sway. The faster I go the faster/more it sways when passing a big semi. It never did that before, ever. Could have gone 80mph before on a pass and pull straight and true, no sway at all.

At 55-60mph it pulls just like before, no sway when passing. tows great. Higher speeds makes 'passing sway' raise its ugly head. If going 75 passing a big double semi truck even going up a grade, its white knuckle for sure. Don't like this new trait from my WW diet.
Hopefully once 160gal of water is loaded in tanks, the high speed passing sway will stop. If not, might have move the SxS a little farther forward like before and live with a heavy tongue that never really bothered me before. Just wanted to be considerably under my max hitch rating.Hopefully can find a happy median.

[allcool]

lincster wrote:
Everything looks great!!!

Trailer sits nice and level.

Great job.

How was the dunes?

Thanks, the diet did help.
We've got to do a ride nest season.

Dunes were awesome. I'm told it blew hard a few days before and then rained a little, then blew again.
Made for some smooth sand on top of a maybe 1" crust under the soft sand, giving unreal traction. No one was there but us.

We took a complete tour from Osborne, Olds, to roadrunner to hill 6, China wall, Taco bowl,lizard hill,flagpole, back to GDS, . Burned up a full tank. It did start to get a little hot by afternoon.

Going to try a Saint Anthony dune trip this summer. Be a good break to escapee the heat in the mountains. Might even do a Yellowstone/Tetons side trip after dunes.
You ever been up to St. Anthony..?

[jmtandem]

and 15,000+gvw

Wow, that is impressively heavy for a tow behind trailer.

[lincster]

Everything looks great!!!

Trailer sits nice and level.

Great job.

How was the dunes?