Realistic Budget 2.0

[quasi]

After getting some really good feedback, I've modified my original budget to include Maintenance costs, increase fuel expenses and eliminate expenses we would have regardless of whether we were camping. Am I getting closer?

"5200 mile trip.January 1st through April 30th."

$1,000.00 Maint
$3,600.00 Camp Fees
$2,000.00 Fuel
$100.00 Propane
$2,000.00 Admission
$800.00 Restaurant
$500.00 Hobbies
$10,000.00 Total

[dahkota]

$10,000 total for four months is about what we spend - $2500/month.
Some months, gas is low and campgrounds are high. Other months, it is the opposite. Some months we eat out a lot. Some months we take expensive tours and eat out less. Over two years, we have consistently spent $2500/month. We could do it cheaper, but we choose not to. Our budget is fluid - in May, we spent $1000 on campgrounds but only $600 for fuel for our bus and toad. In May 2015, we spent $1500 on fuel getting to Alaska and $400 on campgrounds. As long as we are at our budget for the month, we don't really care how it is spent.

As for maintenance, we average about $250/month. Maintenance includes everything, not just oil changes and tires. We wash the RV at least once per month ($50) and wash the car at least twice per month ($20). We also change the oil in our generator, buy the various greases, lubes, and oils needed to maintain everything in working order, replace water filters, replace outside chairs, etc. when they break, occasionally a coffee pot (we are on our 4th). Maintenance even includes replacing cell phones or batteries. Honestly, I think maintenance is the most important part of full time RV living. If you keep your rig in good shape you won't be left on the side of the road. And, dragging your house down the road at 60 MPH will cause some wear and tear.

Best of luck and I hope you enjoy your trip! There are beautiful things to see out there.

[BarbaraOK]

Jayco-noslide wrote:
I think the fact that no one else is even mentioning the depreciation of your RV proves my point that most RVers leave that cost out. This would be like claiming that one can drive a car for x number of years for an amount and completely leaving out the cost of the car. Someone mentioned their daily cost for camping being 20 something but if you add the cost of the RV to each day it will be more that the camp site. Assume you buy an RV for $100,000, use it for 10 years and stay in it 3,000 nights and sell it for $30,000, then it cost you 70000 divided by 3000 = $23/night and that's not counting any loan interest,upkeep, insurance, extra fuel, etc. If you only used it 1500 nights than it would cost $46/day. Of course you have to estimate because you don't know what it will be worth when you sell or trade. Houses gain value; RV's lose big time. I am also an RVer but I just want to know all the cost.

Your assumption is that the RVer begins with the idea of getting something back from their RV when they hang up the keys. We will run ours until we can't - don't expect to get a cent back. Just like when we buy a car - we run it until it 'quits'. We get maybe $250 on trade-in. We don't expect anything from it - after 12-15 years we have more than gotten our use out of it. Same for our motorhome, which is still going and is 15 years old. We don't expect to make money on it - we paid for it and never expect a return.

[qtla9111]

In 2014 we did 10,000 miles in four months through the western U.S., Vancouver to Ottawa (down and around the Great Lakes) and then returned through the mid-west, down through Texas and back home to northern Mexico.

During that year, fuel prices were sky high to the point we paid up to $1.37 a liter (Canadian) and didn't find low prices until Arkansas at $2.14.

We boondocked in Lowe's, forest service, Home Depot, friends, state parks, and took advantage of PassPort America, Taco, GS and used GasBuddy as our fuel guide. We ate out on occasion but never denied ourselves any pleasure.

No way did we even come close to spending that much, in fact, we finished at about $5500.

[quasi]

Travel Trailer ~ I think we're closely aligned on what my budget was trying to establish. We own a trailer and that will not change based on whether it's in the driveway or on the road. We have satellite TV and wireless phones which will also remain whether we camp or not. Those items go in the Fixed Expenses category since they are not dependent upon travel. Camping fees, Fuel and Admission fees are directly attributable to travel. We have resources available for whatever we choose to do and for most unforeseen costs that may crop up. The budget was not for deciding whether we could afford to go, it was merely my anal retentive, spreadsheet based personality trying to get an idea of whether my estimates were in the ballpark. Thanks to all who have shared their opinions especially those with reasoned explanations. As you said, everyone does it differently.

Thanx,

Jim

[trailertraveler]

Jayco-noslide wrote:
I think the fact that no one else is even mentioning the depreciation of your RV proves my point that most RVers leave that cost out. This would be like claiming that one can drive a car for x number of years for an amount and completely leaving out the cost of the car. Someone mentioned their daily cost for camping being 20 something but if you add the cost of the RV to each day it will be more that the camp site. Assume you buy an RV for $100,000, use it for 10 years and stay in it 3,000 nights and sell it for $30,000, then it cost you 70000 divided by 3000 = $23/night and that's not counting any loan interest,upkeep, insurance, extra fuel, etc. If you only used it 1500 nights than it would cost $46/day. Of course you have to estimate because you don't know what it will be worth when you sell or trade. Houses gain value; RV's lose big time. I am also an RVer but I just want to know all the cost.

If the RV is paid for and there is no monthly payment, I think most people leave the cost out of their monthly budget. Retirees often pay off their mortgages on sticks and bricks homes in order to be able to afford living on a lower income in retirement. Including the amortized cost (or estimated amortized cost) of a paid for RV would only artificially inflate the budget amount. If you think "Houses gain value", you need to talk to the thousands that are still underwater on their mortgages or in foreclosure.

Our strategy may be a little different than most. I view the RV as an expendable item just like a car, TV, refrigerator, etc. Since I have always driven a truck or full size van, I chose a travel trailer as the RV. Rather than take a loan or dip deep into savings to purchase a Motorhome or luxury 5th wheel, we bought what we could afford without any significant dipping into the principle of our savings or retirement funds. In 12 years we are on our third RV, replacing each of the first 2 using less than the investment income earned on the funds we did not expend on an initial purchase. Cost of ownership of each was just less than $2000/yr or $5.48/day.

Your argument regarding not calculating total costs, also applies to the often made claim that boondocking is free. Amortized over 10 years, every $1000 spent on extra batteries, solar panels and/or generator comes out to $0.27/day. So a $4,000 solar system costs a dollar a day for ten years whether it is used or not. Then there might be costs for gasoline for a generator, dump fees, and depending on the RV and owner's life style; increased costs for laundry (versus using onboard appliances), increased cellular data fees (versus using park wifi), satellite TV (versus park cable) and the intangible costs of required life style changes for power and water conservation.

Same often applies to volunteering or workamping for a site. Rarely is there mention of the time in hours/week or the minimum week(s)/month(s) that must be spent in one place to achieve the low nightly costs touted.

No two Rvers will be exactly the same. By grabbing bits and pieces of information from those that are willing to provide it, one can make an educated guess as to what to budget for various items.

[Jayco-noslide]

I think the fact that no one else is even mentioning the depreciation of your RV proves my point that most RVers leave that cost out. This would be like claiming that one can drive a car for x number of years for an amount and completely leaving out the cost of the car. Someone mentioned their daily cost for camping being 20 something but if you add the cost of the RV to each day it will be more that the camp site. Assume you buy an RV for $100,000, use it for 10 years and stay in it 3,000 nights and sell it for $30,000, then it cost you 70000 divided by 3000 = $23/night and that's not counting any loan interest,upkeep, insurance, extra fuel, etc. If you only used it 1500 nights than it would cost $46/day. Of course you have to estimate because you don't know what it will be worth when you sell or trade. Houses gain value; RV's lose big time. I am also an RVer but I just want to know all the cost.

[JimK-NY]

My wife and I traveled full time for 2 years and 30,000 miles. The big cost was fuel @12 mpg and $4/g that was $10000. Maintenance was 5 oil changes and an additional $1k for major scheduled maintenance. In addition one tire was damaged and I replaced 2 tires. Total cost of maintenance for two years was about $2200.

I have a solar system and a backup generator which we also use for A/C on really hot days. We only stayed in RV parks twice in 2 years. A few times we stayed in State campgrounds with hookups. Travel nights were at Walmart or equivalent. Total campground costs averaged $7/night with the senior pass. A single propane tank lasts almost two months with daily showers, cooking and occasional use of the furnace. Another $10/month at most. Gas for the generator was another $5/month. Restaurants and admissions were maybe another $200/month. Admission to National Parks was free with the senior pass.

We toured the western US and Canadian rockies and still spent under $1000/month for travel, camping and entertainment. Plus we did not have to stay in crowded RV parks. Get rid of the big bloated RVs and the hook ups and you can travel and live at very low cost.

[doxiemom11]

Electric heater suggestion said to "subsidize" should have said to "supplement" the propane furnace and take a chill off. Never meant to imply that you should heat with electric along.

[2gypsies1]

Everyone travels differently and does different activities. I think the best you can do is set a budget for you alone and have some extra stashed for an emergency. If you go under budget think how good it will make you feel. If you need to go over, you'll have the extra money. You just can't plan exactly.

This is your first long trip. You'll learn lots along the way. None of us knew at first how much traveling and doing things cost. We were all beginners at one time. Your second trip will be a breeze.

I've given my suggestions in your original post. Just GO!!!

[4X4Dodger]

quasi wrote:
Some clarifications are in order. First is that we want to figure everything on the high side as a measure for comfort. If we don't need $1000 for maintenance (and I doubt we will) then that money stays in the kitty. We have a heat pump and an electric heater to offset propane consumption. Our trailer is 38 feet long so fuel consumption is based on current data. We have been told that during your first few months in a long term or full time trip you tend to do a lot more running around and tend to spend more on doing "things" until you settle down. I don't know if we'll be want to go down the Colorado River in a raft but I want to have the option.
Thanx,
Jim

I understand your dilemma but Budgets need to be realistic. My take is your is not, it's far too high in many areas.

Of course this is your prerogative.

A too high budget often leads to overspending. Especially in the areas like "Admissions" which I am flabbergasted at the amount you have. But hey E-ticket rides on every amusement park in America dont come cheap...:)

I think most answers here reflect HOW people travel. NOT what is actually necessary.

Good luck to you and hope you have a good time.

[quasi]

Some clarifications are in order. First is that we want to figure everything on the high side as a measure for comfort. If we don't need $1000 for maintenance (and I doubt we will) then that money stays in the kitty. We have a heat pump and an electric heater to offset propane consumption. Our trailer is 38 feet long so fuel consumption is based on current data. We have been told that during your first few months in a long term or full time trip you tend to do a lot more running around and tend to spend more on doing "things" until you settle down. I don't know if we'll be want to go down the Colorado River in a raft but I want to have the option.
Thanx,
Jim

[trailertraveler]

If you are going to travel, campground fees and fuel costs can be the two largest budget items. They are also controllable. The average cost of our 247 stays in developed campgrounds over the past year and a half was $27.10. However, we do not go to prime snowbird areas or other areas in prime season like you will be doing. Dry camping/boondocking can save on camping fees. If your RV is not already setup with a large battery bank and robust solar system, doing so for extended periods of time may require a fairly large investment up front unless you want to run a generator a lot or just not use the amenities of the RV.

Like one of the other posters, we tend to drive about the same number of miles with and without the RV when in sight seeing mode. Local or regional fuel prices can vary considerably. We have observed as much as a dollar per gallon difference within a week of travel. Some areas like parts of California are notoriously high. Fuel price websites like gas buddy can give you a reality check on prices in the areas you plan to visit.

You don't say how you arrived at your entertainment budget. We spend far less, but as seniors with the America the Beautiful Senior Pass, entrance fees/day use fees to most federal facilities are free. We also buy state park access passes when we will be in a particular state for an extended period of time. We have found that many of the smaller free or low cost local/county museums are just as good as the big fancy higher cost ones.

Everyone has different preferences in how they like to travel. To us the point of traveling is to see and experience new things. If we have to worry about every penny that we will spend or do things that we don't enjoy like bathing in the sinks at Walmart; we would rather just not go and save until we can travel the way we like to.

[1ofmany]

doxiemom11 wrote:
You may want to consider purchasing some type of electric heater to subsidize the furnace or just take the chill off when needed. Many campgrounds include electric in their nightly rate and would reduce the cost of propane. We wintered on the gulf coast at a park that includes electric. Total propane expense for Oct - Apr was $49.00. Your budget may be close for what you are doing ( 120 day trip) but is much much more than we would spend in 120 days.

While this is one way to avoid higher propane costs, you may end up spending much more on repairs to frozen pipes that would not be heated via the electric heater option mentioned above...just a thought.

[doxiemom11]

You may want to consider purchasing some type of electric heater to subsidize the furnace or just take the chill off when needed. Many campgrounds include electric in their nightly rate and would reduce the cost of propane. We wintered on the gulf coast at a park that includes electric. Total propane expense for Oct - Apr was $49.00. Your budget may be close for what you are doing ( 120 day trip) but is much much more than we would spend in 120 days.