2013 Leprechaun water leak problems

[GollyCollie]

My wife and I bought a new 2013 Leprechaun 317SA that we like a lot except we have very bad water leak issue in it. The front cap on our unit, and apparently on a lot of 2013 Leprechauns, was mounted improperly and it allows water to leak in and collect inside he front cap. This water that pools in the front cap then spills over into the hollow bunk deck and goes from there. I discovered the problem when I turned a corner and water showered down on my head! The dealer has made several attempts to correct the problem over the past 4 months, but each attempt has been a failure. Currently they have the front cap totally off of my unit so they can replace the bunk that has been damaged by the water. We are waiting for the bunk from the factory and they are giving me an estimate of 3-4 weeks before it is here. Once the dealer pulled the front cap off they found that the cap was mounted with non-water resistant, double face tape and then simply sealed around the edge with silicon. if the silicon seal is breached in any way, water comes right in and collects in the cap. According to the dealer, they have several more Leprechauns on their lot that are the same way and have water leak problems. This tells me that there must be a lot of them out there.

I think that my dealer is doing the best he can do to make my coach right but I am getting very frustrated with it. I am making payments on an RV that I can't use. I also know from sad experience what water can to do a motorhome and don't want to repeat it.

I would be very interested to hear about anyone else with a new Leprechaun that is having water leak issues so we can compare notes. Maybe I can help you with what I have learned too.

[Snowman9000]

From what I see, I think they could fix yours and it'd be way better than other Class C's. You'd then have to deal with painting the sidewall portions of the coating.

[GollyCollie]

Thats amazing! I have never heard of it. The video sure makes it sound good. I think if I were replacing a roof I would for sure have to look at that at least.

[Snowman9000]

youtube video about it

The guy on the Sunseeker forum had his done in Jacksonville.

[GollyCollie]

Snowman9000 wrote:
I was reading on the Sunseeker forum about a guy who had Rhino-Lining recover his defective roof.

I have never heard of doing that but it sounds interesting. Is there enough flex in that stuff to work without cracking? If I could have mine stop leaking and stay that way, the price would be worth it.

[Snowman9000]

That is an interesting thought about the paint.

I think the rig needs to go back to the factory repair shop. I wonder if they could have a MH delivery person back-haul it to the factory after he delivers a MH in your area. If not that, then I think FR Inc. needs to step up over the heads of the Coachmen division, and find you a suitable different MH at no cost. Or a full refund.

I was reading on the Sunseeker forum about a guy who had Rhino-Lining recover his defective roof. It cost $3200 and the way I read it, they could in fact go all the way over the roof to side seams if you wanted. Then you'd have a rock solid one piece roof right down to the sidewalls. BTW the dealer reimbursed the guy, and FR is supposed to reimburse the dealer. It was not the repair method that FR wanted, but they went along with the customer in the end.

[GollyCollie]

One of the things that came to me when all of this started is how much nicer it would be to have a coach without full body paint. Having full paint makes sealing seams and such things so much more difficult because you have to be concerned about boogering up the paint. Maybe its just coincidence but in the leak problem with the Leprechaun, I haven’t heard of any problems with unpainted coaches. I know with mine it appeared that sealant may have been either skipped or applied more sparingly than I noted on unpainted coaches. My guess is that liberally applied sealant would seep out on the paint. If I had it to do over and was buying another class C, I think I would opt for no body paint.

Isn’t it a shame that we have to be engineers in order to keep our brand new motorhomes dry? Wouldn’t you think that Coachmen would hop in and give us a clue as to how to fix this problem? But if they did that they would be admitting that a problem exists, and I don’t think that will happen any time soon. By the way, this coming Saturday will make 13 weeks my Leprechaun has been in the shop for this problem. I am at a loss to know what to do at this point.

And since it is Thanksgiving, I should stop complaining a minute and be thankful for something. I am thankful that Coachmen is using Azdel in the walls of my Leprechaun. Hopefully it will keep those walls from delaminating after being exposed to all the water.

[Snowman9000]

CT51,

Thanks. So, at point A on yours, the awning rail stops and a new trim rail piece goes forward from there. And the TPO roof membrane is tucked under the rails. But the sidewall is all one piece, right?

It's hard to imagine that the joint between the rails is that hard to seal, at least at the beginning. I wonder what is making it so hard. Due to the downward slope of the forward trim rail, I can see how maybe the rain is being more or less guttered into it. Then it runs down till it hits a dam, either at B or the bottom corner, after G.

For everyone:
I had to repair several leaks on a trailer, including at the trim along the roof. The trailer's trim was even less impressive than that on these MHs. But I can report some things I have learned. One is that any vinyl covering is simply water resistant, and never waterproof. It's better than nothing, which amazingly is what some manufactures use.

Next is that screws, whether covered by vinyl trim or open to the world, like my trailer's, will weep water. Not enough to fill a front cap like you guys are finding, though. Unless maybe it is a screw at a particularly bad spot, like at the closed bottom of your downward running trim. But anyway, screws will weep, even if covered by a vinyl overlay. I've taken to backing the screws halfway out, putting a pea-sized dab of Proflex RV caulk on the threads, then screwing them back in. I have not lived long enough with this band-aid to know how well it works. But it should help a lot. Someone (tvchen) in this thread mentioned doing this too.

Finally, any outside corner trim which has a leg facing at least partly upward is going to catch water and eventually let it through. This is based on the condition of the screws in the trim of the same orientation as Point C on the two fifth wheels I've had. Class C and truck camper forums are full of cab rebuilds due to leaks that started there. Fivers don't seem to be as bad, for some reason. But if you have trim that angles down in a way that catches water into the leg of the trim, or is running horizontal (like C), there is a big likelihood that water will eventually get in.

[CT51]

Some of the areas described in your post need clarification. On a Leprechaun, the roof begins sloping at point A-where the awning rail meets the front cap trim. The roof on the Sunseeker appears to continue straight, without a slope, to the front cap. So the big difference is the awning rail stops at point A on the Leprechaun, and then the cap trim begins at that point, while on the Sunseeker the awning rail extends all the way to the cap, which would be more like point B.

The cap trim on both units is two pieces: A metal trim with screws, that covers the cap/body seam. This is an unattractive piece of metal. That metal trim is then covered with a vinyl trim cover, which is what you see. The problem is twofold. One, the metal trim may or may not be watertight to the body. If it is, it won't leak. Two, the vinyl cover may or may not be water tight. If it is, then it won't leak, as no water will be getting to the metal trim. If the vinyl does leak, and the metal seal is watertight, still no leak, just water under the vinyl. When they leak, it means the vinyl leaked, and the water then got past the metal trim (thru screw holes, or where the contour of the cap was not sealed completely with the similar, but not exactly same shape, front of coach).

Both units have the unfortunate situation of terminating the awning rail into the front cap seal. Leprechauns at point A, Sunseekers at point B. I don't understand why these are not separated, at least by 1/4 inch, with some sort of molding cap that won't allow water from the awning rail to enter the trim cover (vinyl piece). I also don't understand how you could have a piece of trim that by design traps water (the two piece metal/vinyl trim). IF there were weep holes in the vinyl trim along the bottom of the front cap, then if any water did get in, it would just go back out, and not sit there for days looking for a way to get into your coach.

I'm working on all the above theories. I do know that Forest River is aware of all this as well. They are working with the existing components, and putting their emphasis on ensuring that the cap to body seal is water tight. Also, just from looking at your pictures, it would appear that the Sunseeker has less of the two piece trim, and there is no Point A as on the Leprechaun, which is where the water appears to enter on the units I am familiar with.

It is not hard to make the vinyl trim watertight, nor is it hard to make the metal trim underneath water tight as well. While some of us have had this problem with Leprechauns, I have not heard of it on Sunseekers. This post has been around for a while, and not one Sunseeker owner has mentioned a water leak. The Sunseeker is a slightly different design, and I do believe it is built in a different plant. If I were you, I would not worry, and would just be getting excited about your new RV.

CT51

[Snowman9000]

GollyCollie and others, where is your best guess as to the leak spot(s)?

In the photo below,
D is the rail/trim
E is the beginning of the roof slope (is there even a joint there?)
F is the cap to roof joint.
I hope the others are understandable as is.



Against my earlier statement in this thread, we went ahead with ordering a C with a similar style, a Sunseeker. But it is not the same, as shown below. Still, number of joints makes me wonder why I ignored my own beliefs. :S

[CT51]

GollyCollie, I sent you a PM. Need some info.

Thanks,

CT51

[GollyCollie]

CT51, not to cause you to worry more, but please find out what taking your coach to another dealer for this work will do to your warranty. I would hate to see you void it. My guess is that as soon as someone else attempts to fix it, Coachmen will say its not their problem any more, and it needs to be their problem.

Yes, my coach was sitting there when you picked yours up and they told you there was nothing to worry about concerning water leaks. I would not be able to sleep if I did that to someone.

[CT51]

Correction: Apalachee's website is: www.myarv.com. Go to shop services on the left side, and then click on "intrusion care". Talked in detail with them today. This is something they do every day. They have worked on Coachmen's, and are not "intimidated" (my words) by the challenge. I am however, a worrier, so we won't know for sure until it's been repaired, and survived several heavy rains. (Fortunately, I picked this time to read up on stress and anxiety!)

CT51

[CT51]

Just got in from a busy day. I'm replying to GollyCollie and tvchen. I will PM you regarding specific questions, but I think this thread has value to the RV.Net group, so I'm answering here now.

I took delivery 10/28/13. I had driven down to Winter Garden to look at this particular unit on 10/24/13. I really liked it, as no other class C has an interior this nice. I have had several RV's, all of which had problems, regardless of the price, so I looked it over closely, and decided to buy it. We arranged for me to take delivery 10/28. (following Monday). Over the weekend, I logged onto RV.Net to see if there was any posts regarding Leprechauns. Lo and behold, there was GollyCollie's post. I read it carefully, and made notes to ask GRW at delivery. So, at delivery I said I had read a thread on RV.Net regarding water leaks in Leprechauns. I had no idea at that point that GollieCollie had bought from the same dealer. (Your coach was there I guess, but I did not see it). I mentioned to the salesperson as well as the service advisor that I had read about cab leak problems with Leprechauns. Both just poo pooed the question, and said that they always check all roof seams before delivery, and fix anything that looks amiss. I could see that some additional sealant work was done, and the bunk was obviously dry, so I took them at their word.

Since my coach leaked the first time it saw any rain, I can assume the repair was done without verifying the result. Additionally, my coach was on the showroom when I bought it. I assumed that was because it was "special", but obviously for a different reason. I've been too busy today to contact GRW, but I will in the next couple of days.

Regarding the RV, I went today to Apalachee RV Center in Auburn GA, about 40 minutes from my house. Apalachee is an independent RV center that I have used before when I backed a TT into a tree. They are worlds ahead of any RV dealership I have ever frequented (I've had 13 RV's in 15 years. My Dad had them for 30 years before that). Check their website at www.myrv.com. I have an appointment with them 12/3/13 to find the leaks, repair as required. Dealing with Apalachee is nothing like dealing with a dealer. I will be paying them their labor rate, non negotiable, for whatever it takes to guarantee the unit is leak free. This will be at least $1,000, and up to $2,000. It could be more than that if their leak test determines that more deconstruction is required. Whatever the cost, it will be far less than what I would lose on a trade, and the fact is there isn't anything I would rather have than this unit without leaks. So, that's my plan for now. Other than the molding around the cap, there is no difference between a Leprechaun and any other rubber roofed RV. An experienced RV repair center should be able to test, verify, and repair this RV. That is my primary goal. Letting GRW know what's going on is secondary to me at this point. Possibly later, if repairs are not successful, then dealing with GRW might move to the forefront. That they misled me, and withheld information that they knew would cause me not to buy, is without question. But, I'm in Georgia, don't have a lawyer in Fl, and at this point I'm still hopeful I can get what I originally bargained for for just a few more dollars.

Whew!

CT51

[GollyCollie]

CT51, just out of curiosity, when did you purchase your unit and were you told anything at all about the water leak problem? If they were aware of the issue (which I believe they were) and didn’t disclose it to you prior to purchase or if they misrepresented what the problem is, that sounds like deceptive business practices to me on the part of the dealer.

I honestly don’t think that the dealer cares one way or the other on these in that Coachmen has to pay them to ‘fix’ the problem, and the Lemon Law is applied to the manufacturer and not the dealer so its no skin off their nose, but if the dealer misrepresented your coach to you, that would be a big problem for them.

[ol__yeller]

While I liked the layout of these I am crossing them off my list as one to buy. I feel for you who have spent good money for a problem.