Air brake endorsement - Ontario members

[Dougjpr]

Hello

This question is more for the members who live in Ontario or who are familiar with our licencing requirements.

Am looking to purchase a DP, which will have air brakes. From my understanding I need an air brake endorsement on my G license.

Does anyone know if this is a written only test or is there a practical portion as well.

Can't even test drive a unit without a GZ license (air brake)

Went on the government website, but just got confused, so thought I'd ask here first, before calling on Tuesday

Thanks

Doug

[cvbdsl]

All good info here, but you need to plan ahead.

What I did was go to Algonquin College in Ottawa and took the 2 day weekend air brake course. It includes the written and practical test and the instructor provided the certificate you take to the license office to get the Z endorsement. Cost of the course was around $200. That took me to GZ on my license.

Next I needed to get the "D". The most important part is that you need to have a medical first from your doctor - around 75$. I only found this out during the air brake course.

Problem is if you have had any past medical issues, your doctor's word is not good enough and it has to be reviewed by "their" doctor - and that can take up to six weeks. (mine took longer because the local license office did not fax off the paperwork - after six weeks I ended up talking to the head office in Toronto and faxed it off myself but to give credit where it is due, I had their doctors approval within 24 hours after that.)

That allowed me to do the written test - actually the questions were much more geared to "G" class and there was nothing specific for "D" that I recall.

Next I had to book a "D" class practical drivers exam - not every center can perform the test. I had to go to Cornwall or wait a few more weeks for closer centres - you can book on-line and see availability.

Then I had a neighbour with a Class "A" licence accompany me in the MH to Cornwall. There I had to do the "pre-trip" walk-around/inspection and then drive through the town and on and off the highway(401). At the end I had to back up between two posts (I asked the examiner to exit and be the ground guide which is recommended but they can decline).Total time for the practical about 15 minutes.

Next it took two hours to update the computer to issue my temporary "DZ". Seems my account was locked for some reason and required a supervisor over-ride to unlock(supervisor was at lunch).

I started the process in June (with the air brake course) and got the DZ endorsement in September!

As far as I know, every 5 years I will require a medical and have to write the air brake test again. On the plus side I can always drive a dump truck to make a living now:B.

So it can be a long process, especially if the bureaucracy fails like it did with me. Plan ahead and you might need some patience.:Z

And yes, I did drive the MH during the summer without the "D" endorsement - I have had lots of experience driving heavy machinery while I was in the army and have used air brakes since I was sixteen.

[Dutchstar02]

wilco wrote:
CAVEAT. It was 10 years ago and the rules could certainly have changed but here's what was required at the time: having a general Ontario driving license, I took a written test based on the air brake booklet provided/purchased. Once passed, there was a stationary "practical" test that mostly involved running the test vehicle through the daily checks that one should do prior to driving a vehicle with air brakes. You had to provide a suitable "test vehicle" at the testing centre at the time of the appointment. There was no road test.

My advice: Firstly, ask your dealer what is required to drive the thing you want to buy. Take that as a starting point then call an actual licensing centre and ask them what you need to do to get your air bake qualication.

The stuff you're talking about is the air brake endorsement part only. BTW that test has to be rewritten every time your licence is renewed (5 years). There is no practical required on the rewrite only 20 questions (16 correct for a pass).
The issue with the road test is that you will need a commercial D licence to operate any vehicle in excess of 11,000 kgs. If your gas powered MH weighs more than 11,000 kgs you still need the D license. MTO doesn't care if your driving a motorhome or a dump truck the licensing requirements are the same. The hardest part of the test is the safety walk around. You have to hit all the requirements in a reasonable amount of time. Without taking a truck driving course the chances of that are slim to none. My previous comments on getting the endorsement first and then the commercial D license through a school using a gas powered school bus is the easiest way. I did this all 6 years ago and had to do the rewrite when my licence was renewed.
5th wheel drivers have it somewhat easier in that they can get a restricted A licence to tow their trailer that weighs in excess of 4,600 kgs but if the combined weight of truck and trailer exceeds 11,000 kgs then they have to have a different A licence (no Z endorsement because the truck doesn't have air brakes). A full A licence allows towing in excess of 4600 kg and Z endorsement.

Don't trust what a salesman tells you. I was told I didn't need anything other than a G licence because the MH wasn't a commercial vehicle. The only thing not required for a MH is the CVOR inspections every year. If you take it into a truck service center for maintenance they may tell you you need the inspection but you don't. The MH is licensed the same as your car.

[moisheh]

I am sure glad I do not live in Ontario. MH's should require the air brake endorsement for a SINGLE Vehicle. In Manitoba and I think in many other provinces no road test is required. After the written air brake test you do a quick air brake pre trip and you are done.

Moisheh

[wilco]

I think you need to go to an Ontario testing centre and ask them what is required for what you want to do. There is a lot of info posted above and it all could be true, but a lot of it seems a bit too complicated.

CAVEAT. It was 10 years ago and the rules could certainly have changed but here's what was required at the time: having a general Ontario driving license, I took a written test based on the air brake booklet provided/purchased. Once passed, there was a stationary "practical" test that mostly involved running the test vehicle through the daily checks that one should do prior to driving a vehicle with air brakes. You had to provide a suitable "test vehicle" at the testing centre at the time of the appointment. There was no road test.

My advice: Firstly, ask your dealer what is required to drive the thing you want to buy. Take that as a starting point then call an actual licensing centre and ask them what you need to do to get your air bake qualication.

[bobmacc]

More bad? news! If or when you are over 65, you have to rewrite the Z endorsement written test when you renew your DL - typically every 5 years. You do not need to repeat the practical Z portion. That test also include testing on hooking up trailer air lines as you are eligible to tow an air brake trailer less than 10,00 lbs with the DZ. Likewise, the location I re-wrote at insisted that I rewrite the "G" written test. Having driven for 50++ years, was hard to recall how far you can park from a hydrant and stuff like that further complicated by metric measures - which I have never loved. Good luck,

[ldm468]

Doug:

In 2010, I was in a similar position as you in transferring from a travel trailer to a DP motor home.

I went and talked to a truck driver training business near Centennial Parkway and Barton street in Hamilton about acquiring my DZ license. They had at that time, an ex Go Transit 42' MCI coach along with other vehicles for driver training (tractor trailer, fire truck).

The 2 day air brake course was interesting but uneventful. Driving a 42' coach in the streets of Hamilton in February had its moments but the instructor was very competent. They coordinated the driving test and the bus schedule with the nearby MTO facility.

Without going through a driver training course, I do not think you would be successfully complete the drive test on the first try. The ambulance driver, which preceding me, failed his walk around because he did not confirm his fuel cap was secured. He could not do a retest for something like two weeks.

My costs were similar to the figures which Dutchstar posted, subject to inflation.

On a side note, if you wanted to own a Tiffin Breeze, or a Foretravel U225 of U240, you could probably get away with an Ontario GZ license as I think they are under a GVWR of 24,000 lbs.

If you want names and addresses to discuss the matter further, please send me a PM.

[Dutchstar02]

The Ontario Safety League puts on Air Brake Endorsement courses. They are 2 days (usually Sat & Sun). They test you at the end and you get your Z endorsement. What you need to do is get that on your licence and then find a truck driving school. Take their course for the D licence on a gas powered school bus. Since you already have the Z endorsement you only need to add the D licence. You don't want to have to be tested by MTO for the Z endorsement in addition to the D licence. The pretrip inspection for the D licence is hard enough without having to add all the Z endorsement stuff too. Most people fail the pretrip inspection if they haven't taken a truck driving course. Driving the school bus is easy but if you can't get by the pretrip inspection you won't pass. Expect to pay about $700 - $1000 to get the D licence. The Z endorsement is about $250.

[Dougjpr]

Thanks JJ, forgot about that weight part. Started off looking at class A gas, and for those you are usually ok, slipped my mind when we started looking a DP's.

Guess I better pick up a couple of drivers handbooks and check on licence courses

[JesseJ1826]

As most DP's weigh over 11,000 KG (24000 lbs.) you will also need to upgrade your G licence to a D in addition to the Z endorsement. Not sure about the test drive situation but I know that for the purposes of driver training as long as you have a holder of the proper licence with you, you can operate the vehicle with a G licence.