Buying a Former Rental Class C. How many of us out there?

[IAMICHABOD]

While researching these pages for my next Motor Home I saw a few threads discussing Rentals, most were Pros and Cons but very few posts from people who had purchased one.

I thought it may be a good resource and helpful to hear from these people. The good, the bad, what they liked and what they didn’t. Also if they had any problems, things they changed, if they would recommend this to others or do it again.

Here is my story: I am not a novice, having owned a Class A for more than 15 years and doing the camping thing with my wife and two daughters, I can say “been there done that” But life changes, and I sold everything so I have been away from this for several years. Starting over I lurked here for a while and got a lot of good insight then went looking.

My criteria was: A Class C within by budget, less than 30 feet so I can keep it at home, saving storage $, a rear bed, and a lot of storage space.

What fit that was Winnebago, Fleetwood and a few others, what I found mostly was Jamboree / Tioga 26Q. In the year models 2002 thru 2006. I did my home work looking at NADA and other sites to find the fair prices for the models that I was looking for.

After several months of searching the internet, Craigslist, private ads and Dealerships for a Class C that suited my budget and needs, this is what I found. Of the dozen or so I inquired about.Most were upsidedown in their payments, owing more than they were worth. All were on Ford Chassis, 7 needed tires, all had the original 7 to 10 year old tires, and they all needed repair of the awning and most needed some work inside or out and the maintenance records were sketchy, but most had low mileage. The Dealerships offerings were better but they had a profit margin to maintain so I got older models within my budget or huge up sales that didn’t work for me.

My next step was looking at the rental market for sales. In my area there are 2 large companies that have rental sales, Cruise America and El Monte RV,who also sell Class A RVs.

First up was El Monte RV Their units are production RVs that are made by major manufactures, with TV antennas and hookups inside and out, Ducted A/C and heat, 2 house batteries, a rear ladder and parts are readily available from those manufacture’s. I looked at their web site and it detailed their warranty and what was checked and serviced by their factory trained technicians. The unit I looked at was like new inside, the upholstery on all the seats was new as was the floor mat in the driver’s area, it had a new mattress, still in plastic and a new bedspread. All of the curtains were new also. Newer (2010 mfg date) tires with 98% rubber and the mileage was ninety thousand (90,000).

Then there was Cruise America: Their units that I looked at seemed to be Spartan,no TV antenna or hookups for one,non-ducted A/C,small counter space and only one battery, no rear ladder for inspection and maintenance of roof and built just for them, they were all “refreshed” their words not mine. They offered extended warranties at a huge cost. All had high mileage, one hundred and thirty thousand (130,000) or more and the price range seemed a little high. The sales staff had a take it or leave it attitude and were not very forthcoming when asked about maintenance records and service,they claim to have proprietary info in those records,It doesn't seem to be a problem for El Monte RV.

At El Monte RV I took a test ride; This Unit was a 2006 Tioga 26Q on a Chevrolet Chassis it rode
Drove and handled much better than the Fords that I had driven. It also had more leg room and was quieter. We got back and I asked about the service and maintenance on it, the salesman, Joey, handed me a 28 page single spaced document asked if I wanted some coffee or something to drink and said “read this and if you have any questions I will answer them”.

It detailed everything that was done before and after each rental, the mileage, generator hours and hours billed. Each time it was washed and detailed inside and outside, all fluids were checked and replenished if needed, the holding tanks were washed, LP system was checked for leaks, all torque on wheel lugs were checked, brakes front and rear checked for wear and cracks, pressure in tires, all appliances, generator oil, lights inside and outside, the list goes on and on.

It also listed all oil changes,coolant change,trans service,fuel injector service and cleaning,fuel filters,air filter, new brakes, all repairs and replacements all with date, mileage and time spent in complete detail from day one to when it was pulled from the rental fleet and was refurbished. I have a complete service record on this vehicle.Also the service records on the Onan Generator,all oil changes,air filter and spark plug replacement with hours and date. I negotiated a good deal with them and am very happy with my purchase.

It came with a 1 yr. 12000 mile power train warranty and 30 day on all appliances. It also came with a 28 page maintenance record that detailed everything. Also the original sales packet from Fleetwood with the manual and serial numbers on all appliances,refrigerator, microwave,furnace, AC, water heater, etc. and the manual for the Chassis. I have had no problems with it so far.

(ON EDIT) 5 Years and close to 14000 miles.Just Scheduled Maintenance and new tires,old ones were at the 5 year mark and I wanted new Michelin LTX M/S2s.

There were a few things that it didn’t have as it was a rental and the ones from private parties did have.
• Power steps, outside Stereo/CD don’t need or want them.
• An Awning, this I wanted and had installed. A Swivel Seat and a new Window in The Door that I installed.
• Wheel Simulators, I like the looks so I had them installed and at the same time had Tire Man valve stem kit put on.
• Replaced the Chinese WFCO with a US Made converter/charger
• It came with mini blinds and not the day/night that most have, these are more practical and have a lot less failure.

• It also came with Stainless Steel sinks,easier to maintain than the cheap plastic ones that come in the noncommercial units.
  

I am very happy with my Rig, it suites my needs and it was in my Budget range, I think I got a good deal.

So if you bought a rental please share your experience here for others to use as a resource.
Or if there are any other questions that have not been covered in these pages, just ask, there are many helpful people on this thread.

[KristinU]

Schooner wrote:

One of the rental companies claims to have sold 120,000 former rentals and if there were problems specific to them, it would be showing up.

Very true. Lots of opinions out there on "I'd never buy a previous rental" but few owners, which I believe is why IAMICHABOD started this thread.

10 pages long and I don't recall reading any posts saying they were hosed and wished they hadn't bought one. I'm sure they're out there, but unhappy owners are out there with brand spanking new units as well.

[Schooner]

I'm looking at a small former rental Class C primarily because of the savings. The ones I'm seeing in the 2006 age range can be had for around $20K vs $40 or $50. That's a lot of budget left over for the fun aspects of full timing. Newer means more modern floor plans and savings which can go toward customizing for my use.

My first RV was a 26' Class A. At the time I bought it it felt huge compared to my small sailboat. Space is a relative thing. My 2nd RV was a beautiful DP with two slides, but I had a lot of money tied up in it and and there is a big depreciation hit.

It is all a compromise. Full timing in a former rental will provide the same experience as paying double for a non rental. As far as maintenance issues go, the rental company has a interest in maintaining these vehicles and a well maintained gas unit should be capable of 200K miles with routine repair and replacement. When I sold my 26' Chevy 454ci we checked compression and with 126,000 it was still like new.

One of the rental companies claims to have sold 120,000 former rentals and if there were problems specific to them, it would be showing up.

[Wolfeman70]

Mocoondo wrote:
You get the idea.

Yes sir. That's exactly part of the attraction for me. I'm fairly handy with most things and can figure stuff out pretty quickly. Idiot proof / rental means it should be fairly easy to fix/replace. Since we only plan to own the vehicle for a year or two then sell it or give it away, we aren't too worried about all the fancy stuff. We just want a reliable and sturdy vehicle that will give my wife a place to nest, my daughter a place to do her school work and get us around to our meetings while saving us on motel fees.

[Mocoondo]

Wolfeman70 wrote:
Thanks for the information KristinU. I put this here because I was assuming that rental units while built a bit more solidly overall would use cheaper material and insulation resulting in more road noise.

Commercial rental units are structurally no different from their consumer grade counterparts with a few exceptions. You will not see things like retractable steps on most rental units. Some rental companies do not use slides. You will also see things like more robust hinges on exterior hatches. Two piece rear bumpers are rapidly becoming the norm, as is LED lighting throughout. The main differences you will see is in the systems and the interior furnishings. The systems are designed to be idiot-proof, easy to operate and easy to work on. The interiors are fitted out with more robust interior components but less overall "frills". Linoleum instead of carpeting. Zippered fabric seat covers instead of faux leather. Basic window treatments. No fancy valances. Appliances are all standard grade. You get the idea.

[KristinU]

Wolfeman70 wrote:
Thanks for the information KristinU. I put this here because I was assuming that rental units while built a bit more solidly overall would use cheaper material and insulation resulting in more road noise. I was looking for information from rental owners. Internal rattles and noise I can deal with and repair with suggestions like yours. However, if vehicle and external road noise and shaking make sitting at the dinette and watching a DVD school lesson or writing out her spelling words and math problems next to impossible then I lose a lot of what I was hoping for in an RV.
Cost and overall simplicity (comparatively) of the used rental units (as well as maintenance records) have really pushed me towards them as what I'm looking for. I'm just not sure if what I imagine is what I will be getting. With this being a thread directed at rental owners and their experiences I thought this would be a good place to ask the rental specific questions I'm getting from my other thread.

Gotcha Wolfeman! Ours was a previous rental, and after looking at both rental and non-rental Winnies as well as visiting the Winnebago factory for a tour I wouldn't say that the build itself is any different than a non-rental, but the interior and finish stuff can differ slightly. Some of the things that we've noticed in ours are the shower door is accordian fold heavy duty plastic and I think on a non-rental it would have been glass. We also don't have a mirror on the wall, which is pretty standard on our model when not a rental. I know that the upholstery we have was standard in the non-rental units of our model in the previous year (and is wearing like iron), and access to the water pump under the foot of the bed was screwed down and not hinged. We also didn't have a ladder and had one installed as part of our negotiated purchase. Otherwise I think the rest is pretty standard...so I'm not sure if the sturdi-ness that we see in our previous rental is due to the rental status or due to the quality of Winnebagos. And an FYI as you research: Winnebagos with the name Chalet are rentals. You'll see class A Chalets and Class C Chalets, so it isn't necessarily the model.

[Wolfeman70]

Thanks for the information KristinU. I put this here because I was assuming that rental units while built a bit more solidly overall would use cheaper material and insulation resulting in more road noise. I was looking for information from rental owners. Internal rattles and noise I can deal with and repair with suggestions like yours. However, if vehicle and external road noise and shaking make sitting at the dinette and watching a DVD school lesson or writing out her spelling words and math problems next to impossible then I lose a lot of what I was hoping for in an RV.
Cost and overall simplicity (comparatively) of the used rental units (as well as maintenance records) have really pushed me towards them as what I'm looking for. I'm just not sure if what I imagine is what I will be getting. With this being a thread directed at rental owners and their experiences I thought this would be a good place to ask the rental specific questions I'm getting from my other thread.

[KristinU]

We’re venturing off the rental topic, but I’ll chime in to further the discussion: Our son watches DVDs all the time while we’re going down the road – no problem. We did get him a set of wireless headphones so we’d be able to listen to the radio or chit chat without having to listen to the movie du jour for the umpteenth time. Yes, it is louder in there than in a passenger car, but no so much that we can’t hear each other or the stock radio. We also play games and cards at the dinette table while going down the road. A big help here is a big table-length hunk of that non-skid shelf liner. We play Bananagrams (with Scrabble-like tiles) and cards with little problem, though card games that require stacks are a little more of a challenge and we’re on the lookout for some sort of card stack holders for the coming season. But with the non-skid stuff I think your daughter should be fine with a laptop on the dinette.

As for rattles and such, what we did is the first few trips out we’d take turns getting up out of the passenger seat to determine the source of a rattle then problem-solve to get rid of it. That non-skid shelf stuff is great for between pots, in the silverware drawer, between glass bottles, between plastic shoeboxes… just about everywhere. It doesn’t take much – just a little hunk. For the stove we have a large cutting board that is backed with, you guessed it, the non-skid shelf stuff (glued on with contact cement) and weight and friction keeps it on the stove grate and keeps it nice and quiet when going down the road.

Do a search on cold weather camping - lots of good info out there. If we camp in cold weather it is usually en route to somewhere warm, so it is only the first night or two, in which case we use bottled water and keep the pink stuff in the lines until we're out of freezing temps. But I know there are folks who truly cold weather camp with a lot more insight than I have 🙂

[IAMICHABOD]

I have to agree with you on the sticky idea but I am a bit prejudiced on this as I am the OP. :B

On to your question about rattling, Mocoondo stated it very well, they are going to rattle in the places that he mentioned but if well maintained and packed well that can be made quieter. They are not a quiet beast going down the road. Not so bad that you can't have a conversation or listen to music.
My passenger watched a movie in the rear of mine while under way with no problem.

As I stated in the opening I had driven a dozen or more of the same kind while looking for mine. All were from private parties, some were still loaded with all their camping gear and dishes and such and some were empty.

I was surprised at how quiet mine was after driving the others. I have a theory on this.

The ones that are built for Cruise America are built by the MFG specifically for the rental market thus made a lot sturdier.

My Tioga's build sheet says it is a Tioga Commercial made for El Monte RV. I think because of this sturdier build that they prone to be quieter inside, that and the maintenance that they receive.

At El Monte I test drove 3 different RVs all the same 26Q, 2 Fords and 1 Chevy and all seemed quieter than all the others that I had driven from Private parties. I picked the one on the Chevy Chassis because it seemed quieter in the cab area and it had a lot more leg room.

As for the use in colder climates there are a lot of threads on it here, I can be of no help there. Where I live I don't have to winterize or go so far into the cold country. It can be done though.
In the post above, gotsmart seems to do it a lot, if you look at their pictures in their signature you will see them camped in the snow. Maybe they can be of some help.

[gotsmart]

Wolfeman70 wrote:

...
However, it has been stated that this will be impossible in an RV because of rattle and road noise.
...

Here is my solution to rattling windows: linky.

[Wolfeman70]

Thanks Mocoondo. It does help. Really wasn't expecting the freezing issue. That throws a small kink in things. Any way around this issue other than draining the tanks and system?

Road noise and shaking was more my concern than rattle but you covered the rattle issue very well, thank you. In the car I have now, I can carry on a conversation with my wife but any sort of phone conversation is impossible. Not so much the car is noisey, but road noise is an issue. With us wanting to have our daughter school while riding, I'm really curious about how hard it will be to look at the screen, DVD skipping and just plain hearing.

[Mocoondo]

First, the rattling: It is a house going down the highway. It is going to rattle, no if's, and's, or but's about it. How much it rattles depends, generally, on how you maintain your unit. All the windows have "anti-rattle" strips at the top and bottom of the window tracks. If you allow yours to get torn up, split, worn down, etc., you will get more rattle. If your anti-rattle strips are in good condition, you will get less rattle. The other common area people complain about rattling is in the stove. The stove grate is held in place with rubber stovetop grommets. If these grommets are worn or missing, you will get more rattling. Also, how you pack your RV has a lot to do with the noise level. If you pack your dishes on top of eachother, they will rattle going down the highway.

So, to answer your question, the noise level really depends on you. If you are expecting it to be as quiet as a library going down the highway, then an RV of any kind is not for you.

As for operation in colder climates, the main challenge is your water system. If you get much below freezing, you need to empty your water system to prevent freeze damage. This results in loss of sinks, shower and toilet.

Hope this helps.

[Wolfeman70]

This thread has a lot of good information and something like this really should be stickied.

On to my questions....
I have a general question thread where I'm suffering from information overload and trying to get some general answers but a few rental specific questions have come up that I'm trying to get answered. Any help would really be appreciated.

http://www.rv.net/forums/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/27495222.cfm

One of the main purposes for buying an RV for our travels over the next year or two is to make it easier for my daughter to school. Sitting at the dinette with a laptop and school books while driving with the wife helping when needed is the plan. However, it has been stated that this will be impossible in an RV because of rattle and road noise.

Can anyone tell me how the Rental units they've bought do in terms of interior rattle and road noise? Can you sit down and watch tv/use a laptop at the dinette?

Also it's been stated that RV's do't do well in colder climates. Living in Mississippi for the last 13 years has left my daughter with no snow experience and we were hoping to plan part of our trip to bring us into snowy regions.

How well does a rental unit stand up to the cold and weather?

Not sure what else I need to know or be concerned with so any help is appreciated.

[trisailer]

I'm glad I stumbled on this thread. A previous rental is a great idea and I've already located a few that will fit my needs.

Your information about making a deal will, what to look for should make it a informed process.

Thanks

[IAMICHABOD]

KristinU

It sounds like you had a great trip with 2 weeks and 3,300 miles on that Previous Rental.

Wow 7 states and only that one problem that sounded like it was an anomaly that rarely crops up!

It seems that you and a lot of others that have a Previous Rental are enjoying a lot of trouble free vacations. I guess we have hit on something here.

Thanks for checking in and keep us all informed on how future trips go, and I like your Blog too.

If there are any other owners of a Previous Rental that want to chime in on their trips this summer, let us hear about it!

[KristinU]

Just swinging back through this thread to check in - we just returned from a great 2 week, 3,300 mile trip with our previous rental. It was great! We're in love with motorhoming for sure, and so far our Winnie Chalet is a great fit for us.

The only problem we've encountered is a sporadic phantom closure of the slide. Both Winnebago and Kwikee (the supplier for the slide assemblies) have been very responsive and helpful in trying to nail this thing down. Apparently this is all but unheard of and the first thing we'll be trying is replacing the switch panel.

Otherwise, all systems are working well. We sure put the A/C to the test over the past couple of weeks! And we loved having an onboard genny so we could stop and do some sightseeing and turn the air on for our dogs.

I keep a blog, so if anyone wants to see our rig and notes from our trip, feel free to click on the link to our blog in my signature. The trip was CT to WI, MN, IA, IN, KY, MD, then home...and back to work 😕