Buying a Former Rental Class C. How many of us out there?

[IAMICHABOD]

While researching these pages for my next Motor Home I saw a few threads discussing Rentals, most were Pros and Cons but very few posts from people who had purchased one.

I thought it may be a good resource and helpful to hear from these people. The good, the bad, what they liked and what they didn’t. Also if they had any problems, things they changed, if they would recommend this to others or do it again.

Here is my story: I am not a novice, having owned a Class A for more than 15 years and doing the camping thing with my wife and two daughters, I can say “been there done that” But life changes, and I sold everything so I have been away from this for several years. Starting over I lurked here for a while and got a lot of good insight then went looking.

My criteria was: A Class C within by budget, less than 30 feet so I can keep it at home, saving storage $, a rear bed, and a lot of storage space.

What fit that was Winnebago, Fleetwood and a few others, what I found mostly was Jamboree / Tioga 26Q. In the year models 2002 thru 2006. I did my home work looking at NADA and other sites to find the fair prices for the models that I was looking for.

After several months of searching the internet, Craigslist, private ads and Dealerships for a Class C that suited my budget and needs, this is what I found. Of the dozen or so I inquired about.Most were upsidedown in their payments, owing more than they were worth. All were on Ford Chassis, 7 needed tires, all had the original 7 to 10 year old tires, and they all needed repair of the awning and most needed some work inside or out and the maintenance records were sketchy, but most had low mileage. The Dealerships offerings were better but they had a profit margin to maintain so I got older models within my budget or huge up sales that didn’t work for me.

My next step was looking at the rental market for sales. In my area there are 2 large companies that have rental sales, Cruise America and El Monte RV,who also sell Class A RVs.

First up was El Monte RV Their units are production RVs that are made by major manufactures, with TV antennas and hookups inside and out, Ducted A/C and heat, 2 house batteries, a rear ladder and parts are readily available from those manufacture’s. I looked at their web site and it detailed their warranty and what was checked and serviced by their factory trained technicians. The unit I looked at was like new inside, the upholstery on all the seats was new as was the floor mat in the driver’s area, it had a new mattress, still in plastic and a new bedspread. All of the curtains were new also. Newer (2010 mfg date) tires with 98% rubber and the mileage was ninety thousand (90,000).

Then there was Cruise America: Their units that I looked at seemed to be Spartan,no TV antenna or hookups for one,non-ducted A/C,small counter space and only one battery, no rear ladder for inspection and maintenance of roof and built just for them, they were all “refreshed” their words not mine. They offered extended warranties at a huge cost. All had high mileage, one hundred and thirty thousand (130,000) or more and the price range seemed a little high. The sales staff had a take it or leave it attitude and were not very forthcoming when asked about maintenance records and service,they claim to have proprietary info in those records,It doesn't seem to be a problem for El Monte RV.

At El Monte RV I took a test ride; This Unit was a 2006 Tioga 26Q on a Chevrolet Chassis it rode
Drove and handled much better than the Fords that I had driven. It also had more leg room and was quieter. We got back and I asked about the service and maintenance on it, the salesman, Joey, handed me a 28 page single spaced document asked if I wanted some coffee or something to drink and said “read this and if you have any questions I will answer them”.

It detailed everything that was done before and after each rental, the mileage, generator hours and hours billed. Each time it was washed and detailed inside and outside, all fluids were checked and replenished if needed, the holding tanks were washed, LP system was checked for leaks, all torque on wheel lugs were checked, brakes front and rear checked for wear and cracks, pressure in tires, all appliances, generator oil, lights inside and outside, the list goes on and on.

It also listed all oil changes,coolant change,trans service,fuel injector service and cleaning,fuel filters,air filter, new brakes, all repairs and replacements all with date, mileage and time spent in complete detail from day one to when it was pulled from the rental fleet and was refurbished. I have a complete service record on this vehicle.Also the service records on the Onan Generator,all oil changes,air filter and spark plug replacement with hours and date. I negotiated a good deal with them and am very happy with my purchase.

It came with a 1 yr. 12000 mile power train warranty and 30 day on all appliances. It also came with a 28 page maintenance record that detailed everything. Also the original sales packet from Fleetwood with the manual and serial numbers on all appliances,refrigerator, microwave,furnace, AC, water heater, etc. and the manual for the Chassis. I have had no problems with it so far.

(ON EDIT) 5 Years and close to 14000 miles.Just Scheduled Maintenance and new tires,old ones were at the 5 year mark and I wanted new Michelin LTX M/S2s.

There were a few things that it didn’t have as it was a rental and the ones from private parties did have.
• Power steps, outside Stereo/CD don’t need or want them.
• An Awning, this I wanted and had installed. A Swivel Seat and a new Window in The Door that I installed.
• Wheel Simulators, I like the looks so I had them installed and at the same time had Tire Man valve stem kit put on.
• Replaced the Chinese WFCO with a US Made converter/charger
• It came with mini blinds and not the day/night that most have, these are more practical and have a lot less failure.

• It also came with Stainless Steel sinks,easier to maintain than the cheap plastic ones that come in the noncommercial units.
  

I am very happy with my Rig, it suites my needs and it was in my Budget range, I think I got a good deal.

So if you bought a rental please share your experience here for others to use as a resource.
Or if there are any other questions that have not been covered in these pages, just ask, there are many helpful people on this thread.

[SJ-Chris]

About 3 years ago I purchased two Cruise America 2015 Class C Majestic 28a units. I am a moderate DIYer and have made several modifications/upgrades. I enjoy these projects and seem to be a little addicted to doing more (lol). I have fixed many things that broke along the way too, but this post is just covering upgrades and modifications. I thought I would share a list here along with links to several of the projects in case any of you want to make the upgrades....

Added a backup monitor. I'm actually surprised that rental RVs don't come stock with backup cameras as they help drivers so much. Well, Cruise America RVs do not come with them. So, I added one.
Cost was ~$140. It is wireless. The camera is mounted on the rear of the RV and is placed right underneath the center running light near the rear top of the RV and the camera gets it's power from the running light. Here is the one I chose.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B078PDH6Z8

Added a 2nd lead acid battery. This doubled the battery bank from 100AH to 200AH which I feel is much more reasonable for the typical weekend warrior RVer. I added the battery in the small external compartment on the driver side closer to the rear. I drilled some 1/2" holes near the top and bottom of this compartment (on the underside of the RV where it isn't visible) to allow for gas venting. Then ran heavy duty battery cables to connect with the original coach battery.

Added a battery monitor. Incredibly helpful for all things battery/power related. Cost: ~$75. Let's me know that my solar, alternator, generator charging is working. Let's me know exactly what the battery capacity is. Let's me test/know the power consumption of any 12v item in the RV. Very useful.
https://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/30168196.cfm

New front seat covers. Hard to find ones that fit, but these ones fit like a glove! After a while, the original cloth seats had stains. These covers are a vinyl type that can easily be wiped. They have been holding up great.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B084WVK4DD

Added USB charging ports over the dinette, over the couch, and over the rear bed. I installed these:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07ZQJPJMB
Allows for all passengers to keep their devices charged.
If you put them within ~6-10 inches from your under-cabinet dome lights (if you have those), you can tap off the dome light wiring.
I chose these for easy install because with the correct sized drill bit, it is a 10 minute job!

Added a TV and DVD player. This was put on the driver side of the upper cab bed (there is a 120v outlet there already). I had to run a 1"x4" piece of wood immediately above and below the window and then two vertical pieces. I painted them to match the drape color so they were less noticeable. This allowed me to place a long reaching TV mount/arm on the wall so that the TV could be swiveled open and pointed down so people can watch from the couch or dinette. Here is the long-reaching TV mount I used:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07XJJKRM7

Upgraded Tires. When the time came for new tires, I feel it is a no-brainer to move up to 225/75r16 Commercial rated tires (121/120 load rating). Gives ~2000lbs extra load carrying capacity on the rear. Before doing this, I had 2 blowouts on my RVs over a couple of years. Since upgrading I have had zero blowouts. Better safety. Helps me sleep better at night.

Tire Pressure Monitor System. Cost ~$80 and took 5 minutes to install. This is a GREAT safety feature to have. Over the years I've had a couple of times when the inner dually was flat and I didn't notice (prior to getting this TPMS). If you don't have one, you should add one. Your safety is worth it!
https://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/30305164.cfm

RV roof reseal and caulking. The RVs were 6 years old when I did this project. The caulking around the vents and the front cap needed some attention. I was also about to add solar so I wanted a nice, clean canvas to work on. Cost was only ~$250/RV. I feel like I added an extra 5 years of protection to my roof. Haven't had any leaks. Here is that project:
https://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/30201452.cfm

500w solar and 2000w PSW inverter. I'm a huge fan of solar on RVs. Keeps the batteries topped off all the time when in storage, and allows for boondocking. I was able to find an inexpensive way to add 500w which is more than enough solar. Probably only needed 300w, but with this inexpensive technique (used panels), the panels were practically free.
https://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/30217540.cfm

Added a Trik-L-Start device. This handy ~$60 device takes a small amount of the charge going to your coach batteries (via solar or being plugged in) and charges/maintains your chassis battery. Keeps everything nice and topped off. Never having dead batteries is so nice...

Changed all the interior light bulbs to LEDs. LED light bulbs use ~1/5th the power. Changing them keeps the RV cooler in the summer months AND uses much less battery power. Cost: ~$15. These ones worked in my RV (verify yours are the same before purchasing):
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07HRVKQDR

Upgraded the rear bed to a 10" memory foam mattress. Cost was ~$260 and definitely worth it. Here's the one I got...
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JRHI0W2

Tornado black waste tank flush system added. This ~$50 project makes it so you can rinse out your black waste tank the best, easiest way possible. It not only pushes out all the waste on the bottom of your tank (...there's plenty left there after a "regular" dumping without a tank flush), but it cleans your waste tank walls and most importantly the SENSORS so that they read correctly. Very beneficial in my opinion.
https://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/30315748.cfm

Added Roof Vent cover over the rear bedroom ceiling vent. This ~$30-40 addition allows you to keep the vent open while driving, while in storage, etc. Easy to do. Puts zero holes in your roof during install. I just put it over the bed to try out, but now I think I'll add one over the bathroom vent as well (...nice to be able to leave the bathroom vent open).
https://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/30358230.cfm
While you are up there, you might want to also change the rubber vent cover seal especially if yours is all hard, brittle, and cracking. You can order it here, $13 for 2 vents:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08HZCW58V/

Added a fan over the rear bedroom bed. This allows for bringing in air and/or blowing air out. On one of my Majestic 28a units it had a pull handle to open/close the vent (instead of a crank handle). This forced me to get creative and create a custom, quiet vent fan. Cost was about $25. Here is a link to that project:
https://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/30361696.cfm
On the other Majestic 28a, it had a crank type opening system. I happened to have a Heng's Vortex vent fan laying around so I installed that one in that RV.

Catalytic Converter anti-theft system and alarm. After having one of my CCs stolen (covered by insurance), I decided to do something to help prevent it from happening again. Even though insurance covered it, that RV was out for about 5-6 weeks (what a pain). For about $40 I was able to put together something pretty good. For an extra ~$60 I was able to install an alarm that covers the catalytic converter, the interior of the RV, and the main rear storage compartment. Here is a link:
https://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/30358670.cfm

Added a locking gas cap. I don't ever want someone stealing my gas (...with prices this high, it could happen), or anyone putting anything into my gas tank (unlikely, but you never know). Cost was ~$12.

Adding cooling fans and boiler protection to the refrigerator. This is my latest project and not yet finished. I'll add a link when complete. Adding cooling fans to blow outside air through the back of the refrigerator and out the vent will help keep the fridge/freezer interior cooler (especially in warm months). Adding boiler protection will help prevent refrigerator damage and/or fire.

I think that's most of the upgrades. Hope you find this useful.

Have any of you added anything else that you really enjoy? Let us know.

Happy Camping!
Chris

[Deb_and_Ed_M]

We all have our biases 🙂 I walked into the Chateau and swooned over the
bone-white cabinets that made a no-slide 22' RV feel so much more "spacious"...LOL!

(Of course, coming from a pop-up truck camper - ANYTHING feels spacious)

[IAMICHABOD]

Well it seems that you have it all dialed in. It is too bad you did not go with the one on Chevy Chassis that would give you a much smoother ride and a quieter and more spacious cockpit area making it much easier to access the house area,bathroom etc while there.

If you get a chance try both and see the difference when getting from the cockpit area to the house part.

As you can see I am a bit biased on this but I am a happy camper :B

[Deb_and_Ed_M]

Grit dog wrote:

Or B. They're a used RV dealer doing a similar thing as Ichabod showed. Great prices to buy new in bulk. Can't re-sell as a new car dealer for the Brand. Rentals are more local or lower miles (guessing most F L A vacation renters aren't driving the RV to California, but rather for a loop around the area and a week parked at Disney with the kids). They get more $ per mile revenue than what one may consider a typical rental, like take the family to Mt. Rushmore and Yellowstone from, wherever. So they make great $ per mile and then dump 'em quick while they're still literally "like new."

^^^ This^^^
Our salesman C.J. explained that folks who want to purchase, put down a deposit, then grab the first unit (they are all identical) that either "ages out" or racks up 6,000+ miles. They had a nice 23U model on the Chevy chassis at a great price, but Ed is just a Ford guy 🙂 and I don't care because the floorplans were almost identical.

And yes, we own a small mom/pop used car lot, so we "get" how buying at wholesale is a blessing 🙂

The best part - Krenek RV is in the middle of nowhere, next to I-94. No fancy parking lot - the RV are out in a nicely-mowed field. The folks are friendly, there was NO pressure; they know their products. They explained how the program works openly - mass buying results in lower prices, which is what all the big dealers plan on - but Krenek doesn't have a dozen+ dealership locations to support

[Deb_and_Ed_M]

IAMICHABOD wrote:


I don't know what company that Deb and Ed bought from but they may be affiliated with one of these. We may find out.

I didn't know if I was allowed to say who we bought from (although we have no affiliation other than "customer") but we went to Krenek RV in Coloma, MI (tell C.J. that Deb and Ed say "Hi!"). I suspect their relatively close proximity to Chicago gives them plenty of rental business!

[Grit_dog]

Deb and Ed M wrote:

SJ-Chris wrote:


Can you share how much money you saved vs buying the same unit brand new? I'm just curious.

Seems like a strange business model that company has...They buy it new and THEY eat the immediate depreciation when they turn around and sell it with 6000 miles. Hard to believe the rental income from 6000 miles worth of rentals would be worth it to them.

-Chris

I have no idea how they manage it, but we saved about $20k compared to our local "Big Box" dealer on the same unit. And it's not too stripped down: has dual coach batteries and a 100W solar panel and the "pretty" interior. Downside: no power driver's seat.

You guys have a used car lot, right? I could see a couple reasons they do this.
Either, A. This is in anticipation of a declining market and they're trying to off load a bunch they can get cheaper next year (although RV season is just ramping up in the F L A).
Or B. They're a used RV dealer doing a similar thing as Ichabod showed. Great prices to buy new in bulk. Can't re-sell as a new car dealer for the Brand. Rentals are more local or lower miles (guessing most F L A vacation renters aren't driving the RV to California, but rather for a loop around the area and a week parked at Disney with the kids). They get more $ per mile revenue than what one may consider a typical rental, like take the family to Mt. Rushmore and Yellowstone from, wherever. So they make great $ per mile and then dump 'em quick while they're still literally "like new."

(Very similar to what I used to do with our personal vehicles when I had time, the economy wasn't weird and the internet didn't exist so every seller didn't "know what they got" and every buyer wasn't a wannabe Richard Rawlins. For years, my wife drove a new ish truck basically for free. Buy used low mile truck, only for a good deal, put it up for sale shortly thereafter for more money. Sell in 6 months or so before the miles went up much and no value lost, repeat as soon as another vehicle was found. Note this partly only worked due to the State's cheap title and tags and no sales tax implications on private party used vehicle purchases.)

[SJ-Chris]

Deb and Ed M wrote:

SJ-Chris wrote:


Can you share how much money you saved vs buying the same unit brand new? I'm just curious.

Seems like a strange business model that company has...They buy it new and THEY eat the immediate depreciation when they turn around and sell it with 6000 miles. Hard to believe the rental income from 6000 miles worth of rentals would be worth it to them.

-Chris

I have no idea how they manage it, but we saved about $20k compared to our local "Big Box" dealer on the same unit. And it's not too stripped down: has dual coach batteries and a 100W solar panel and the "pretty" interior. Downside: no power driver's seat.

Nice work Deb & Ed...sounds like you got a good deal (saving ~20k). I hope your RV gives you years of trouble free travel. Happy Camping! -Chris

[Lwiddis]

I talk to those I see that bought them. Most are very happy.

[IAMICHABOD]

SJ-Chris wrote:

Seems like a strange business model that company has...They buy it new and THEY eat the immediate depreciation when they turn around and sell it with 6000 miles. Hard to believe the rental income from 6000 miles worth of rentals would be worth it to them.
-Chris

To touch on this a bit,this business model was in use back in 2012 by Road Bear. They were selling 1 to 2 year old RVs with low mileage.They were acquired by a New Zealand company, Tourism Holdings Limited.

Here is an example

Their business model was what they call flex fleet they buy in large lots across a peak season then are sold in 9-18 month period opposed to the 5-6 year traditional model.

They went on to buy up many other RV rental Companies in New Zealand and Australia UK and Europe. Most recently in 2017 El Monte RV then Sept of this year Apollo/Canada Dream an Australia company,They also had been using this model for some time.

Apollo had a lot near me and in 2017 I visited their lot they had about 100 units and about half were for sale I was amazed that the were all about 1-2 years old and low mileage.

Here is a picture of that lot

I don't know what company that Deb and Ed bought from but they may be affiliated with one of these. We may find out.

From my recent research it seem that Cruise America follows the old model,buying purpose built RVs and selling them with high mileage and 4 or more years old.

Where the others buy production models,like mine is,and selling them newer and with low mileage.

It seems to be working, they are just getting bigger.

[IAMICHABOD]

Deb and Ed,Welcome to the Former Rental Owners Club great to hear you are no longer one of those "I'd never buy a rental" folks.
I will add you to the long list of owners,you will be #143

I hope this RV will be of great help to you and Ed and also hope he is doing well and will be feeling better soon.

Be well and have a great camping season with this new to you RV.

[Deb_and_Ed_M]

SJ-Chris wrote:


Can you share how much money you saved vs buying the same unit brand new? I'm just curious.

Seems like a strange business model that company has...They buy it new and THEY eat the immediate depreciation when they turn around and sell it with 6000 miles. Hard to believe the rental income from 6000 miles worth of rentals would be worth it to them.

-Chris

I have no idea how they manage it, but we saved about $20k compared to our local "Big Box" dealer on the same unit. And it's not too stripped down: has dual coach batteries and a 100W solar panel and the "pretty" interior. Downside: no power driver's seat.

[SJ-Chris]

Deb and Ed M wrote:
OK - I was one of those "I'd never buy a rental" folks - and now I'm buying one.....LOL! We went to a somewhat local dealer who has a BUNCH of small Cs for sale - come to find out, they are actually a rental company and their contract stipulates the unit needs to have more than 6,000 miles before it can be sold. I got to see a rental that was waiting to be cleaned and re-rented - it was spotless. My salesman said their hefty damage deposit helps convince renters to be careful. So we put a deposit on a 2023 Chateau 22E and will probably pick it up next month when it gathers enough mileage to go to a permanent home 🙂 For the money we saved compared to a "virgin" unit from other dealers - I'm OK that ours will have been used a bit 🙂

Can you share how much money you saved vs buying the same unit brand new? I'm just curious.

Seems like a strange business model that company has...They buy it new and THEY eat the immediate depreciation when they turn around and sell it with 6000 miles. Hard to believe the rental income from 6000 miles worth of rentals would be worth it to them.

-Chris

[Deb_and_Ed_M]

OK - I was one of those "I'd never buy a rental" folks - and now I'm buying one.....LOL! We went to a somewhat local dealer who has a BUNCH of small Cs for sale - come to find out, they are actually a rental company and their contract stipulates the unit needs to have more than 6,000 miles before it can be sold. I got to see a rental that was waiting to be cleaned and re-rented - it was spotless. My salesman said their hefty damage deposit helps convince renters to be careful. So we put a deposit on a 2023 Chateau 22E and will probably pick it up next month when it gathers enough mileage to go to a permanent home 🙂 For the money we saved compared to a "virgin" unit from other dealers - I'm OK that ours will have been used a bit 🙂

[IAMICHABOD]

SJ-Chris wrote:

After looking at a couple of stores I found a good fit for the Dometic 320 toilet. ~$41 at Lowes. Replaced them in two of my Thor Majestic 28a RVs.







Soft close. No slip. Perfect color match (bone). Less than half the price compared to the Dometic replacement seat/lid.

Enjoy!
Chris

Hey SJ Chis,great write up on your quest for that toilet seat.The pictures are a plus,it will help others I am sure.Another post that I will archive in my files so it may help others,in case you don't see it first. :B
Have a great camping season.

[SJ-Chris]

SJ-Chris wrote:
I've got a couple of 2015 Thor Majestic 28a Class C RVs that have what appear to be Dometic 320 toilets. One of the seats is worn and the other just broke, so I want to replace both of them. Googling online looking for options, one of the only places I can find a replacement one is here:

https://www.etrailer.com/Accessories-and-Parts/Dometic/DMC34FR.html

$99 each.

"Regular" toilet seats (for a home) that I would usually buy at Home Depot, Lowes, etc seem to be in the $30-40 price range. They are all slightly different shapes and sizes and obviously it is important to get one that is the correct size (or very close). Do any of you happen to know of a good replacement toilet seat that fits the Dometic 320 toilet? Might be a long shot but thought I'd ask. Otherwise, I will need to measure width, length, bolt spacing, contact point spacing, etc and then manually go to the store and start measuring/searching.

Thanks!
Chris

After looking at a couple of stores I found a good fit for the Dometic 320 toilet. ~$41 at Lowes. Replaced them in two of my Thor Majestic 28a RVs.







Soft close. No slip. Perfect color match (bone). Less than half the price compared to the Dometic replacement seat/lid.

Enjoy!
Chris