Can you name that sound (squeaking)?

[SJ-Chris]

I have a 2013 Coachman 210qb Leprechaun Class C. It has a Ford v10 e350 Super Duty engine. It has 111k miles on it and it hasn't been giving me any issues until now. It has recently started making a squeaking/rubbing noise that I cannot identify. Looking for suggestions....


Here are the symptoms.... After sitting parked for many hours/overnight, when I start it up and start driving there is a rubbing/squeaking noise that starts at about 15mph and continues up to about 40mph. Once up to about 20mph, the noise happens while accelerating, and/or while coasting, and/or while braking. It doesn't matter what gear it is in. The sound stays constant between shifting gears and also if applying a slight pressure on the brakes. After about 1.5 miles of driving, the sound goes away and it doesn't happen again until the car has been sitting parked for many hours (or overnight).


It sounds like something is possibly rubbing (brakes??) during this time and I suspect it has something to do with the rotation of one or more of the wheels. To me, the squeaking noise sounds like it might be related to the tires rotating (...the noise is kind of rhythmic and the speed of it seems related to how fast the car is going). Maybe it goes away because something has warmed up after 1.5 miles???


I did one additional test. I let the RV sit overnight. In the morning, I turned on the car and let it idle for 10 minutes so that the ENGINE itself was warmed up. I thought maybe if the sound is going away once some component of the ENGINE is warming up that I would be able to do this test (get the engine warm and THEN drive it...maybe I wouldn't hear the noise). But when I drove it I got the same noise (rubbing/squeaking) starting at about 15mph for about 1.5 miles and then it once again went away.


Here is a video where you can hear the noise. Turn up your speaker. In this video, it starts at about 2 seconds and goes away at around 8-12 seconds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZz_NoQntB0
(Note: The "D" (drive) flashing in the video isn't real...it doesn't flash/blink like that. For some reason it just looks that way in the video)


Here is another video where you can hear the rubbing/squeak louder right up to about the 20 second mark.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/2VmWOJROS-s

Any thoughts?

A friend of mine who is mechanically inclined thought it might be the "indicator clips"(?) of the brake pads making the rubbing/squeaking noise. I'm not convinced that is the issue since the noise is happening NOT because I am braking...it just starts making that noise once the vehicle goes from being cold started and then gets to about 15mph. Could indicator clips cause/behave something like this?

"indicator clips" are the small clips on the brake pads that will hit the rotors (and make noise) before your brake pads get too low.

Let me know what you think.

Thanks!
Chris

[enblethen]

Carrier bearing looks good. no sign of heat.
I don't like to see grease on u-joints that do not have Zerk fittings.
Leak on transmission output shaft could be bearing failing in transmission or drive shaft wabbling. Seal may need to be replaced.
Rear u-joint and differential seal looks good.
Last photos are of the serpentine belt tensioner and idler pulley.

[SJ-Chris]

Update and some pics...

There was a little break in the rain so I was motivated to inspect my squeaky RV to try some of the suggestions from all you above. No solution discovered yet, but I wanted to share an update and some pics as they might be meaningful towards your continued help/suggestions.

First thing I did was I started up the RV and with my foot on the brake I shifted to reverse then drive and back and forth a couple of times. I was listening/feeling to see if there were any unusual noises or sounds. That all seemed normal and nothing out of the ordinary.

Next, I turned off the engine and I put the RV in neutral. I put blocks under each wheel front and back so I could safely crawl underneath to investigate, for some pics, and to try out klutchdust's suggestion of trying to move the driveshaft.

Here are some pictures...

These first two are the carrier bearing/housing: (how does it look to you?)



There are 3 u-joints on my RV driveshaft. Here is a picture of the first one (front, closest to the engine):



(Side issue/question: What does this oil/grease suggest?)


Here is the middle u-joint:



Here is the rear u-Joint:


How do all the above pictures look to you?

Next I tried to see if I could lift or move the drive shaft with my hand at the u-joints. They appeared rock solid and the drive shaft could not be moved up or down or side to side. Then I tried to rotate the drive shaft with my hand. It would move about 1/8th to 1/4th of an inch and stop. Is that normal? I didn't see any grease at the u-joint locations themselves. After taking the above pictures I crawled out from underneath.

Hmmm....am I making any progress? Do the u-joints and carrier bearing look and seem okay to you based on the pictures and me trying to move the driveshaft? If so, perhaps those are not the culprit??

Next, I decided to take it for another test ride to try out a couple more of your suggestions. While driving, when it started to squeak I put the RV in neutral and coasted. Shifting to neutral and coasting had no impact on the squeaking noise (it continued squeaking). (Question: when in neutral, is the drive shaft spinning?). I also tried applying the emergency brake a little bit while driving (and squeaking) and it didn't seem like it had an impact on the squeaking noise.


Another test I did while driving... When it started squeaking I continued driving with my foot on the accelerator but I also applied a little pressure on the brake with my other foot. While doing this, I didn't really hear much difference in the squeaking noise. It sort of seems like if the issue is the brakes then a test like this would have produced some different result (like maybe the squeak would go away, or get louder??).

Thoughts?

Some have suggested perhaps the idler pulley. Here is a picture of my serpentine belt. Anyone see anything of interest?


Is this the tension pulley here? Is the idler pulley above it? How easy/hard is it to replace? Is it easy/hard/worthwhile to replace the serpentine belt at the same time?


Thanks all!
Chris

[SJ-Chris]

klutchdust wrote:
Old school u joint check that has served me well for many years. First find a nice level spot, block wheel so vehicle cannot move forward or backward, release parking brake and place in neutral. This releases any tension that may be on the driveshaft. Go underneath and try to lift, by hand, the drive shaft at the joint location. Does it click, move ? if not you are ok, if it does replace the joint.

Great suggestions...thanks! I'm going to try this.

-Chris

[klutchdust]

Old school u joint check that has served me well for many years. First find a nice level spot, block wheel so vehicle cannot move forward or backward, release parking brake and place in neutral. This releases any tension that may be on the driveshaft. Go underneath and try to lift, by hand, the drive shaft at the joint location. Does it click, move ? if not you are ok, if it does replace the joint.

[SJ-Chris]

Grit dog wrote:
Chris
In your case I presume it’s a 2 piece rear driveshaft. The carrier bearing is the “support” about halfway down the driveshaft. Any torn rubber in the mount or any physical play up and down or laterally is evidence that it is worn out or failing.
U joints probably 3 on the rear ds, the best method is good if you don’t see any physical evidence.
With u joints wear and failure, the following symptoms are the general stages from good to broken
1. Grease has dried out gone away. One or more u joint cups will be warmer than the others and may squeak at certain speeds. Generally lower speeds. If they were in a 4wd front axle you would feel them binding when you turn the steering wheel while driving. Slight back n forth in the steering wheel.
2. May still squeak but dry bearing cups will rust and you’ll see evidence of new rust around the cup seals.
3. They physically are worn enough to clunk or physically feel slop between the u joint and the bearing cups.
4. They west to the point that they break or come apart.

Generally vehicles with good shallow driveline angles will go a long time on a bad u joint. Thousands of miles potentially . Because the u joint rotates very little. Maybe only a couple degrees each direction as the drive shaft rotates.
U joints are generally fairly easy to replace with home hand tools and a big vice. Sometimes a press will be needed. Carrier bearings are also easy although sometimes they must be pressed on and off the driveshaft.
Hope this helps.

Thanks for the details!

We just started 5 days of rain, so I won't be looking under there for at least another week. I will keep people posted.

-Chris

[Grit_dog]

Chris
In your case I presume it’s a 2 piece rear driveshaft. The carrier bearing is the “support” about halfway down the driveshaft. Any torn rubber in the mount or any physical play up and down or laterally is evidence that it is worn out or failing.
U joints probably 3 on the rear ds, the best method is good if you don’t see any physical evidence.
With u joints wear and failure, the following symptoms are the general stages from good to broken
1. Grease has dried out gone away. One or more u joint cups will be warmer than the others and may squeak at certain speeds. Generally lower speeds. If they were in a 4wd front axle you would feel them binding when you turn the steering wheel while driving. Slight back n forth in the steering wheel.
2. May still squeak but dry bearing cups will rust and you’ll see evidence of new rust around the cup seals.
3. They physically are worn enough to clunk or physically feel slop between the u joint and the bearing cups.
4. They west to the point that they break or come apart.

Generally vehicles with good shallow driveline angles will go a long time on a bad u joint. Thousands of miles potentially . Because the u joint rotates very little. Maybe only a couple degrees each direction as the drive shaft rotates.
U joints are generally fairly easy to replace with home hand tools and a big vice. Sometimes a press will be needed. Carrier bearings are also easy although sometimes they must be pressed on and off the driveshaft.
Hope this helps.

[ford_truck_guy]

had a similar sound years back... It was the U-joint... my "82" Ford F350 ate them up ! got good at changing them on the fly also... that is until I fixed the underlying issue that was causing them to go bad.....

[enblethen]

op's first link
OP's 2nd link
If you are able to or have a helper, both u-joints and carrier bearings can be tested by touch. drive a few miles then quickly go under rig and feel the u-joints and carrier. if they are hot, they are bad.
Can be done with no touch thermometer.

[SJ-Chris]

Grit dog wrote:
If it was the brakes, and it could be a harmless brake squeal, the noise would change or go away if you ride the brakes a little while maintaining speed. So not likely brakes.
If it’s not rpm sensitive then not likely to be the accessories or belt.
It’s not random, it’s rotational, so can likely rule out odd non moving parts squeaks as suggested it may be.
If I read your dash right, 111k miles. If it’s on original u joints or carrier bearing then those are the likely culprits. U joints can dry out and if very mild/shallow driveline angles (like a long RV) the u joints dont exercise much and can go a long time before actually showing other signs of pending failure.
After 100k miles u joints and carrier bearings are nearing the end of their service life, frequently.
But you have to get under it and diagnose. Any grease splatter or rusty dust around u joint cups is a sure diagnosis. Any slop in carrier bearing or torn rubber is as well.

Thanks for your suggestion. I continue to learn along the way...
I don't know much about u joints and carrier bearings. I did find this interesting article about u joints:
https://www.halesautomotive.com/news/shop-news/40-store-news/905-what-are-u-joints-and-how-can-you-diagnose-a-bad-one
I will try the test they suggest, and also look underneath the vehicle as you suggest. When driving, I do not feel clunking or jerkiness, so I'll be a little surprised if this is the issue.

I also had to look up Carrier Bearings... Here is what I found:

"Carrier Bearing—A carrier bearing is located on the axles or driveshaft and is integral to how the car operates. Its job is simply to keep the axle or driveshaft tightly in place and reduce vibrations. Worn carrier bearings can cause rumbling or whirling sounds for acceleration above twenty miles per hour."

Hmmmmm....the "whirling sounds for acceleration above twenty miles per hour" does describe my symptom. Also a good read:
https://www.driveshaftsoftulsa.com/blogs/news/symptoms-of-a-failing-support-bearing

I learned a lot about u-joints and carrier bearings when I found this video:
https://blog.1aauto.com/how-to-check-bad-carrier-bearings/

Now I know where/how to look. I'll have to investigate further.

Thanks!
Chris

[SJ-Chris]

30sweeds wrote:
Have hub caps? Check for the edge of the cap squeaking against the tire.Sounds crazy but mine had a wheel speed squeak and that's all it was.Was about ready to pull everything apart till I accidentally figured it out.

Glad you were able to figure that out before pulling everything apart! Nice when a fix ends up being easier than we thought...

On this RV, I do not have hub caps. So that isn't it. But thanks for mentioning it as it might help someone else.

-Chris

[30sweeds]

Have hub caps? Check for the edge of the cap squeaking against the tire.Sounds crazy but mine had a wheel speed squeak and that's all it was.Was about ready to pull everything apart till I accidentally figured it out.

[Grit_dog]

If it was the brakes, and it could be a harmless brake squeal, the noise would change or go away if you ride the brakes a little while maintaining speed. So not likely brakes.
If it’s not rpm sensitive then not likely to be the accessories or belt.
It’s not random, it’s rotational, so can likely rule out odd non moving parts squeaks as suggested it may be.
If I read your dash right, 111k miles. If it’s on original u joints or carrier bearing then those are the likely culprits. U joints can dry out and if very mild/shallow driveline angles (like a long RV) the u joints dont exercise much and can go a long time before actually showing other signs of pending failure.
After 100k miles u joints and carrier bearings are nearing the end of their service life, frequently.
But you have to get under it and diagnose. Any grease splatter or rusty dust around u joint cups is a sure diagnosis. Any slop in carrier bearing or torn rubber is as well.

[SJ-Chris]

valhalla360 wrote:
Had a weird thing like this where it didn't match the RPM, sometimes it happened, sometimes it didn't on our V10 F250.

Didn't believe it until the mechanic changed it but the idler pully was going bad.

Thanks for the suggestion. I will keep idler pulley on my potential list of suspects.

-Chris

[SJ-Chris]

klutchdust wrote:

enblethen wrote:
Another possibility is a warped brake rotor.

A warped brake rotor will also give you a "pulsating" pedal when applying the brakes. "dragging" your brakes or riding your brakes going downhill is an easy way to do that.

Good suggestion/tip.
I do not feel any pulsing while braking so hopefully my rotors are okay.

My hope is that it is simply the brake pads (squealer tab).

-Chris

[SJ-Chris]

Gjac wrote:
Also, if you put it in park and rev the engine does the sound change pitch or go away?

For talking purposes, I'm calling a "cold start" to be starting up after the RV has sat for an hour or longer.

From a cold start.... When I start the engine, there is no squeaking sound. If I let the engine sit and idle there is no squeaking sound. If I rev the engine while in park, I do not hear the squeak/chirp noise. If I drive slowly (under ~15mph) there is no sound (...this is true if I do a cold start and drive immediately, or if I do a cold start and let the engine warm up for 10 minutes before driving). The squeaking only starts once I hit about 15mph. It is sort of a rhythmic squeak/chirp noise that I can mentally imagine it *could* coincide with the tire making a complete orbit. RPM and gear don't seem to affect the sound much. After about 1.5 miles of driving, the squeak/chirp goes away. It doesn't make the noise again until the RV is parked and everything is allowed to cool.

I haven't had the chance yet to jack up the RV and try to rotate each tire. If I do get it jacked up (one wheel at a time of course) I could also pull the tire and look at the brakes to see if I can learn anything (...although I'm no brake expert). Maybe I'd be able to see the squealer tabs?? We'll see. When the front tires are jacked up, I assume I will be able to manually spin them. Not sure if I will be able to spin them fast enough(?) to make them squeak (if they are even the problem). As mentioned, when I'm driving below 15mph I do not hear any squeaking/chirp. We'll see I guess. I hope to get to this during the coming week.

-Chris