Diesel --- front engine -vs- rear engine

[trx680]

Any advantage, one over the other?

[Johnny_G1]

I don't know where you come up with cheap MHs with a puller engine, mine was only $240,000 when it was new, not a cheap MH as to some of the junk out there today???

[bshpilot]

hone eagle wrote:


forgot one

I'm sure i forgot more than just Powerhouse. Many CUSTOM build to order truck/conversion companies are outta business (i.e. kingsley to name one)...its a niche market .

[hone_eagle]

bshpilot wrote:

93mastercraft wrote:


I own a GL1800 and a DP. I guess you could say that. 🙂

and i own a BMW K1200LT (aka flying couch) along with a few sport bikes....so i guess thats why i don't get the analogy.

I was thinking maybe the comment was made based on truckers & harley riders affinity toward chrome...but obviously i was off base there too....and as we know wing riders can go crazy w/ the chrome too 😉

for those unfamiliar w/ the conversion trucks (like ours in the photos) feel free to hit any of links below.

Flying A Motorsports - Motorcoach Inventory

these manufactures (all have FB pages & post plenty of pictures)....click on any of the links below to tour some of the interiors

Show Hauler
Renegade RV Motorcoaches
Haulmark Motor Coaches & Motor Garages

the only disadvantage i see (as an owner) is that i loose some interior space at the hood...our air ride pilot & co-pilot seats swivel and can be used as seating in the living space (like a pusher) too.

One advantage I see (other than the maintenance/engine access) in conversion/super c coaches is the additional bed (over the cab)... NOW, that all our kids are outta college, we use the space for "light storage".

By some standards our (personal) coach might not be considered all that luxurious....but its as nicely appointed as any other coach w/ ceramic tile floors, hardwood cabinets, leather sofa, corian counter tops, china bowl commode, queen bed, flat screens etc.

Click Here for Interior Pictures

forgot one

[MSPUSMC]

Wow! I have a Tiffin Allegro Bay 35TSB FRED (340 ISB with 6 speed Allison). It has been a great RV. Engine noise is minimal. No problem carrying on a conversation or listening to CD's. Not sure why the sound issue keeps popping up. The engine brake is loud going down hills and the auxiliary cooling fan is loud when going up steep grades for long periods. I've been getting 9.65 mpg towing a Saab Convertible on a tow dolly in the Northeast. Down south where it's flatter, I've been getting 10-11 Plus mpg. I've been looking at other floor plans recently in diesel pushers. Only problem is that I'm really happy with FRED and our current floor plan is great for us. Getting 6-8 mpg in a pusher has held me back also. Eventually I may purchase a pusher once I see a floor plan that better suits us than the 35TSB. By the way, I did install Bilstein shocks and air bags to improve the handling and ride on the FRED. The ride in the FRED is firmer than a pusher, but probably similar to a gasser. The Bilstein shocks and air bags have made a big difference.
Obviously the pushers have more storage and I assume are considerably quieter. The ride is probably significantly better also. This is our first RV. It's our 8th season with our Bay. So far so good.

Art

[mci7]

Having experienced some real bikes, BSA Road Rocket 1955, 883 Sportster JUNK if ever there was JUNK, a 1968, Double Junker. Guess why today I prefer my ISM500 Rear Engine Pusher Foretravel, I feel I am very lucky and happy. Yes I enjoy reading the banter about em bikes.
Dave M

[J-Rooster]

A friend of mine owns a Winnebago Journey D.P. (rear engine) and he had to add insulation over the engine compartment because the engine noise was so loud he couldn't sleep back there when his wife was driving! I owned Harley Davidsons all my life and I'm grateful for Honda and the Goldwing because, Honda motorcycle technology has forced Harley to build better bikes IMHO!

[bshpilot]

Daveinet wrote:
I'm going to assume the analogy did not make sense because you and I were talking about 2 very different front engine diesels. Maybe you have not seen a FRED or looked one over very close. The one I saw was an Allegro. It was really a very low end class A coach. But no matter who puts a shell on it, it is still a lighter weight, leaf spring chassis with a small diesel engine. The only people who bought it were those that somehow thought that because it burnt diesel fuel, that it was somehow magically better than a gas coach. You can read the test reports and read opinions of those who test drove them. No one was particularly impressed. It was not some terrible piece of junk or anything, but it was nothing special. You paid a little extra just to say you owned a diesel, even though there was no particular advantage.
So in this person's opinion, while the Harley is not some terrible bike, I do know that if I was trying to earn my Iron Butt, which bike I would choose.

OK don't take me too seriously - clearly neither one of us was on the same wave length (i was thinking chrome).

never heard of a FRED - but some googling shows me why it was a huge mistake for Tiffin and anyone else....less than 6L and only 300 HP ! DOUBLE YUK !

why the HELL would anyone want a Class A w/ a DIESEL up front !?!?! hell put it in the back like all the (successful) others !

just to clarify - I'm not anti harley, I've ridden plenty of 'em & have a great friend that sells 'em here in houston (if anyone needs a connection).

fwiw, I love long distance riding too....Ive done 3 Iron butts (1000 miles in 24hrs)....on the right bike....its not that big a deal, and i didn't take anywhere near 24 hrs to do any of mine....even did one on a Moto Guzzi V11 Sport

[Daveinet]

bshpilot wrote:

93mastercraft wrote:


I own a GL1800 and a DP. I guess you could say that. 🙂

and I own a BMW K1200LT (aka flying couch) along with a few sport bikes....so i guess thats why i don't get the analogy.

I was thinking maybe the comment was made based on truckers & harley riders affinity toward chrome...but obviously i was off base there too....and as we know wing riders can go crazy w/ the chrome too 😉

I'm going to assume the analogy did not make sense because you and I were talking about 2 very different front engine diesels. Maybe you have not seen a FRED or looked one over very close. The one I saw was an Allegro. It was really a very low end class A coach. But no matter who puts a shell on it, it is still a lighter weight, leaf spring chassis with a small diesel engine. The only people who bought it were those that somehow thought that because it burnt diesel fuel, that it was somehow magically better than a gas coach. You can read the test reports and read opinions of those who test drove them. No one was particularly impressed. It was not some terrible piece of junk or anything, but it was nothing special. You paid a little extra just to say you owned a diesel, even though there was no particular advantage.
So in this person's opinion, while the Harley is not some terrible bike, I do know that if I was trying to earn my Iron Butt, which bike I would choose.

[bshpilot]

93mastercraft wrote:


I own a GL1800 and a DP. I guess you could say that. 🙂

and i own a BMW K1200LT (aka flying couch) along with a few sport bikes....so i guess thats why i don't get the analogy.

I was thinking maybe the comment was made based on truckers & harley riders affinity toward chrome...but obviously i was off base there too....and as we know wing riders can go crazy w/ the chrome too 😉

for those unfamiliar w/ the conversion trucks (like ours in the photos) feel free to hit any of links below.

Flying A Motorsports - Motorcoach Inventory

these manufactures (all have FB pages & post plenty of pictures)....click on any of the links below to tour some of the interiors

Show Hauler
Renegade RV Motorcoaches
Haulmark Motor Coaches & Motor Garages

the only disadvantage i see (as an owner) is that i loose some interior space at the hood...our air ride pilot & co-pilot seats swivel and can be used as seating in the living space (like a pusher) too.

One advantage I see (other than the maintenance/engine access) in conversion/super c coaches is the additional bed (over the cab)... NOW, that all our kids are outta college, we use the space for "light storage".

By some standards our (personal) coach might not be considered all that luxurious....but its as nicely appointed as any other coach w/ ceramic tile floors, hardwood cabinets, leather sofa, corian counter tops, china bowl commode, queen bed, flat screens etc.

Click Here for Interior Pictures

[bluwtr49]

I would seem to me that if one wanted a diesel the normal DP makes the most sense if for no other reason, the available selection. The shear quantity of units on the market virtually assure a prospective buyer of finding what they like at almost any price point from $30K to $3,000,000.

I've never even seen a front engine diesel RV in person. Just some pictures that weren't very impressive so certainly can not comment on performance, layout, etc.

I'm sure there are some perceived advantages with the front engine just don't know if they are important.

[93mastercraft]

bshpilot wrote:

gbopp wrote:

Daveinet wrote:

Dare I say its a lot like comparing a Harley to a Goldwing.

The Harley is the FRED and the Goldwing is the PUSHER :@

I'm a motorcyclist & i don't get that reference!
I'd consider it coke vs pepsi, nikon vs canon.

I own a GL1800 and a DP. I guess you could say that. 🙂

[Daveinet]

Maybe I should be a little more clear in the first part of my post. There was a specific class A chassis called a FRED. That was the glorified gas chassis with a diesel engine. Unfortunately the term FRED has become generic to mean anything with a diesel mounted in the front. I believe FRED was actually trade marked, so when using the term FRED, it should only refer to the glorified gas chassis with a diesel engine. The term should not be used for anything else, such as the Kodiak class or the semi-truck conversions. Those are a whole different ball game.

[Two_Jayhawks]

bshpilot wrote:

Peralko wrote:


As a Gold Wing owner whose stepson has a Harley, I get it--it's the noise!

I've heard 'wings w/ modified exhaust & harley's w/ fairly quiet exhaust....
most harley's are loud because their owners MAKE them loud.

Yeh I agree with you that was a strange analogy.

[Groover]

To get back on topic there seems to be more variety in FRED's than DP's and the variety makes comparisons challenging. In 2005-2006 time frame the Chevy Kodiak was popular for low cost FRED's and probably represents the low end. It had the same motor and transmission as the 3500 pickup and had very limited tow capacity plus the suspension did not seem to be up handling to the high center of gravity. I was looking at "super C's" at that time and got the impression that a lot of owners felt the need for major suspension upgrades. There were a much smaller number of motor homes built on the F650 or International chassis (I believe that they were essentially the same) and they seemed to work a lot better but did cost quite a bit more. There are some new coaches built on the F550 chassis and they have a much higher GCWR than the Kodiak did so they can tow much more but I have not been able to find one on the lot to look at and there has not been much discussion of these on the Super C page either. When I made my purchase decision on key factor for me was that the full length of a class A is usable for living quarters while the cab of a super C is not so you get for room per foot in a class A. I think there are some new class small A FRED's built on Mercedes or Ram van chassis that are probably nice units for their size. To get back to the op's question I can barely hear the engine in my DP and I suspect that most front engine usits are noiser in the driver's area. Also, the weight is shifted towards the rear so the axles are more centered under the vehicle. To get more specific we would need to know which FRED's and DP's you are considering, at least what size and cost range.