Diesel vs gas for Class A....also length of RV....

[sr71bbjd]

Hello!

My wife and I have been camping for 40 yrs, from tent through big travel trailer. We are now considering purchasing a used class A motorhome.

We have looked at several units and have two main questions we can use input on.

- is it worth buying a diesel and paying a premium of about $0.40-.50 per gallon? I know they have better longevity, and better torque for hills and grades, in theory....

- is there a size point of motorhome length where you start having difficulty with state parks and campground navigating? Better to hold it to 30'-34'? Is 37' a problem?

We will be up and down the east coast; from CT - New Orleans, Austin, Nashville, and plan one lengthy trip out west and back.

Any help and insights you can offer are greatly appreciated!

Jerry

[JnJnKatiebug]

kfp673 wrote:
I am not a motorhome owner. I am actually a travel trailer owner with a diesel pickup truck. I am however looking into motorhomes. I am looking at this from a differnt angle. I have towed with both large gas and Diesel engines and there is no doubt the diesel is a better engine for hauling. Just the ability to hit cruise control and have it pull a grade without constant shifting is great. Gas engines can do the job but diesel is definitly much nicer. Now... With that said.. I don't understand the ridiculous upcharge in the rv world. If I price a pickup truck with a large gas engine and then price the EXACT SAME TRUCK with a Diesel engine there is typically a $10k difference on average. In the rv world when they do it with a class C it is a $70k upcharge. Why? In class A it is six figures more. Now granted, most DP are longer and larger so there is money in that but why don't they drop a 6.7l cummins in 30-35' class A's? It would be a no brainer for me for the $10k upcharge. I just don't understand why they are sooooo much more. It's just not worth it to the average person but that doesn't mean gas is "just as good".

It is not just dropping in a Cummins. With the DP you are buying the entire chassis which is a whole different ball game. That is where the extra towing capacity comes in. On the pickup the only difference is the engine and transmission. If you look at a gas powered MH with the same spit and shine on the inside vs the same level of DP I don't think it will be a $100k upgrade. The DP chassis probably cost at least $50k more for the builder to buy.

[Gjac]

offthewall wrote:

RayChez wrote:
LOL! Some of these RVer's that are saying a gasoline coach is just as good as a diesel pusher do not know what they are talking about. They should take a drive on a diesel pusher and they would never go back to a gasoline coach. Now if they do not want to spend that kind of money, that is a different story. But to say that a gasoline motorhome rides just as good is insane.

Gasoline motorhomes are OK, but not comparison to a diesel pusher. SORRY!
A gasoline engine once it starts hitting 100K it is already in the twilight of being a good engine, while a diesel is just barely getting broke in.

^^^^^ THAT

I'm with you. We've owned a 2008 gasser and now a 2010 DP. No comparison in ride or pulling power. We now have our second DP on order (2015 Newmar Ventana 4037).

We are getting almost twice the fuel mileage with the DP. The CC of our DP on order is 11,300 lbs!!! The slide out, fully pass through storage bays will be a delight on my old back and I won't miss whacking my head on the bottom of an open slide loading or unloading. The ride is heavenly due to the air suspension, engine heat and noise in the back and huge increase in torque. We could tow anything, rather than being limited to the 5,000 lbs of a gasser.

We do not FT. We like to say that with the DP, we feel like we are on vacation the second we sit in the drivers seat with the DP. The Gasser was always a hot, noisy chore to get somewhere. Since we vacation within 500 miles from home, we never have to stop for fuel with the DP. Fill it up at home and again when we get back home.

When parked, we are not 3 feet in the air since the bags drop before the levelers are down.

No way would I ever get a Ford V10 based gasser again. If I ever decided i wanted something smaller, I'd get a Mercedes based diesel Sprinter model. That is a true "alternative" to a DP. A 35-40ft Class A gasser is a "compromise".

What did your gas MH weigh vs the weight of your 34y DP? What HP do you have in the DP? What was the MPG of each? Assuming your gas MH was a 362 HP ford how did the performance compare with your DP?

[kfp673]

I am not a motorhome owner. I am actually a travel trailer owner with a diesel pickup truck. I am however looking into motorhomes. I am looking at this from a differnt angle. I have towed with both large gas and Diesel engines and there is no doubt the diesel is a better engine for hauling. Just the ability to hit cruise control and have it pull a grade without constant shifting is great. Gas engines can do the job but diesel is definitly much nicer. Now... With that said.. I don't understand the ridiculous upcharge in the rv world. If I price a pickup truck with a large gas engine and then price the EXACT SAME TRUCK with a Diesel engine there is typically a $10k difference on average. In the rv world when they do it with a class C it is a $70k upcharge. Why? In class A it is six figures more. Now granted, most DP are longer and larger so there is money in that but why don't they drop a 6.7l cummins in 30-35' class A's? It would be a no brainer for me for the $10k upcharge. I just don't understand why they are sooooo much more. It's just not worth it to the average person but that doesn't mean gas is "just as good".

[offthewall]

RayChez wrote:
LOL! Some of these RVer's that are saying a gasoline coach is just as good as a diesel pusher do not know what they are talking about. They should take a drive on a diesel pusher and they would never go back to a gasoline coach. Now if they do not want to spend that kind of money, that is a different story. But to say that a gasoline motorhome rides just as good is insane.

Gasoline motorhomes are OK, but not comparison to a diesel pusher. SORRY!
A gasoline engine once it starts hitting 100K it is already in the twilight of being a good engine, while a diesel is just barely getting broke in.

^^^^^ THAT

I'm with you. We've owned a 2008 gasser and now a 2010 DP. No comparison in ride or pulling power. We now have our second DP on order (2015 Newmar Ventana 4037).

We are getting almost twice the fuel mileage with the DP. The CC of our DP on order is 11,300 lbs!!! The slide out, fully pass through storage bays will be a delight on my old back and I won't miss whacking my head on the bottom of an open slide loading or unloading. The ride is heavenly due to the air suspension, engine heat and noise in the back and huge increase in torque. We could tow anything, rather than being limited to the 5,000 lbs of a gasser.

We do not FT. We like to say that with the DP, we feel like we are on vacation the second we sit in the drivers seat with the DP. The Gasser was always a hot, noisy chore to get somewhere. Since we vacation within 500 miles from home, we never have to stop for fuel with the DP. Fill it up at home and again when we get back home.

When parked, we are not 3 feet in the air since the bags drop before the levelers are down.

No way would I ever get a Ford V10 based gasser again. If I ever decided i wanted something smaller, I'd get a Mercedes based diesel Sprinter model. That is a true "alternative" to a DP. A 35-40ft Class A gasser is a "compromise".

[rgatijnet1]

427435 wrote:

RayChez wrote:
LOL! Some of these RVer's that are saying a gasoline coach is just as good as a diesel pusher do not know what they are talking about. They should take a drive on a diesel pusher and they would never go back to a gasoline coach. Now if they do not want to spend that kind of money, that is a different story. But to say that a gasoline motorhome rides just as good is insane.

Gasoline motorhomes are OK, but not comparison to a diesel pusher. SORRY!
A gasoline engine once it starts hitting 100K it is already in the twilight of being a good engine, while a diesel is just barely getting broke in.

Sorry, but I drove a friend's DP (Monaco) one night for a couple of hundred miles. There was no great improvement in ride, handling, or noise compared to my slightly modified (and old) gasser. The "mods" include a $150 of good sound insulation in the dog house, Koni FSD shocks, rear air bags, AND A GOOD ALIGNMENT.

And the Ford V10's will run a lot longer than 100,000 miles if properly maintained. At 80,000 miles, mine is running the same as when I bought it------------no change in mpg or oil usage.

Many of us that have gas coaches now have also had DP's. I also have a few thousand miles behind the wheel of a million dollar Liberty Prevost coach. After driving the Prevost, to me the other cheaper DP's are just Prevost wannabes. :B
A gas coach will work just fine and if the floor plan works for you, and then the power plant does not matter.
If you read these posts long enough, you will find that many many DP's have had very expensive problems that creep up quite often. Sure the diesel engine may last a long time but that radiator can cost you $5000 and that turbo can cost you $4000 to repair. In fact, I have never read about anyone on this forum actually wearing out either a gasoline or diesel engine. It is always some other related part that fails and on the diesel engines, that means a lot of money to get back on the road, if you can find some place with the parts and with a mechanic ready to work on it. Most gas engine parts are available at the nearest auto parts store and mechanics are well versed on engines that are used in millions of other vehicles.

[the_silverback]

Same as what 427245 said. I compared a Journey with an Adventurer. No big difference. The Adventurer did climb hills better. Better Horsepower to weight ratio.

[427435]

RayChez wrote:
LOL! Some of these RVer's that are saying a gasoline coach is just as good as a diesel pusher do not know what they are talking about. They should take a drive on a diesel pusher and they would never go back to a gasoline coach. Now if they do not want to spend that kind of money, that is a different story. But to say that a gasoline motorhome rides just as good is insane.

Gasoline motorhomes are OK, but not comparison to a diesel pusher. SORRY!
A gasoline engine once it starts hitting 100K it is already in the twilight of being a good engine, while a diesel is just barely getting broke in.

Sorry, but I drove a friend's DP (Monaco) one night for a couple of hundred miles. There was no great improvement in ride, handling, or noise compared to my slightly modified (and old) gasser. The "mods" include a $150 of good sound insulation in the dog house, Koni FSD shocks, rear air bags, AND A GOOD ALIGNMENT.

And the Ford V10's will run a lot longer than 100,000 miles if properly maintained. At 80,000 miles, mine is running the same as when I bought it------------no change in mpg or oil usage.

[1BryNelson]

Woooow!!! Mr Mark's getting a new ride!

Enjoy!!

[RayChez]

LOL! Some of these RVer's that are saying a gasoline coach is just as good as a diesel pusher do not know what they are talking about. They should take a drive on a diesel pusher and they would never go back to a gasoline coach. Now if they do not want to spend that kind of money, that is a different story. But to say that a gasoline motorhome rides just as good is insane.

Gasoline motorhomes are OK, but not comparison to a diesel pusher. SORRY!
A gasoline engine once it starts hitting 100K it is already in the twilight of being a good engine, while a diesel is just barely getting broke in.

[Mr_Mark1]

-Gramps- wrote:
This discussion is always contentious but fun. I see both sides of the coin....and I think I have a coach with the best of both.

I can also see both sides of the coin. People should buy and drive what works best for them.

If people are getting down to the pennies of gas vs. diesel (and DEF), they are not diesel-pusher possible owner's. A diesel pusher is not just about fuel mileage or the additional cost really, it's about air ride and the engine being in the back for noise. Also, diesels can carry much heavier weight and can pull just about any tow vehicle that you want.

MM.

[Mainuh]

Interesting discussion. We're in research mode, looking to jump in within the next couple years when we pull the plug. Very ineteresting to hear how many have gone from 1-2 previous DP's to gas and have no regrets. I think times, engines, trannies and other equipment is changing. Personally I can't get by the $80-100K initial purchase difference for similar size coach and features (granted no airbag ride in gasser). But the whole DEF thing is scary and only adds more to an already wide price margin from gas to diesel. For the record and the interest of those reading back through this thread in the future, I did research yesterday with the Gas Buddy app, checking real time gas prices across the country and here are a few price comparisons from 10/5/14:
Zipcode/Place Regular Diesel Margin (additional cost for diesel)
85701 Tuscon AZ 3.13 3.59 .46
65803 Springfield Mo 2.99 3.43 .44
20108 Manassas VA 3.03 3.79 .76
58501 Bismarck ND 3.39 3.79 .40
04101 Portland ME 3.39 3.67 .28
97201 Portland OR 3.25 3.53 .28
55801 Duluth MN 3.05 3.59 .54
33601 Tampa FL 3.15 3.55 .40
30301 Atlanta GA 3.26 3.79 .53
18501 Scranton PA 3.25 3.79 .54

From what I've found of owners disussing milages, it seems maybe older DP''s got better milage (early 2000's or older?) but seems to be little difference for newer models of similar sizes in gas or diesel. Anyway... enjoying the thread and I've got plenty of time before I make a decision. Since we're likely to put less than 10K miles a year, features and floor plan seem far more important to me. If fuel prices and initial costs weren't so disparate, it would be a much easier choice.

[-Gramps-]

This discussion is always contentious but fun. I see both sides of the coin....and I think I have a coach with the best of both.

[Rodz]

A DP is not better than a gasser. It's just a different MH. The DP has less engine noise for the driver but can be very loud for anyone riding in the rear. I recently went back to a gasser from two DP's. I get 8 mpg and that all I got with the DP's. It handles and rides very good even in hard winds. The percentage of depreciation between the two is close to the same. I'm very happy with my Canyon Star. It pulls the hills better than my DP'S did. No regrets not to mention a hundred grand less money. $50.00 less per fill up, same size tank. Maintenance cost is a fraction of a DP. A Dp will go over 500 k miles before rebuilding. I've seen reports of the V 10 Ford going 300 k without any engine problems. I doubt if many of us will ever put that kind of miles on our MH. The new 5 speed Ford trans was a huge improvement with engine braking. A DP is no better than a gas anymore than a Cadillac is better than a Chevy. Different vehicles for different wants and needs. Get what you want and enjoy the adventure.

[427435]

Usual gas vs diesel thread.

We've been very satisfied with the ride, quality, hill-climbing, and quietness of our gasser------------especially when you consider how much money stayed in our money making investments after paying for it.

We have also found that a 35' MH with two slides to provide plenty of room for the 2 of us. It also has been no problem even when driving though downtown areas of major cities with a toad behind us.

[RayChez]

There is no comparison between a gasoline vs diesel. The diesel is superior on all categories. I have had both and the ride alone is like day and night.

The only way I would go 45'is if I was to go full time. They are long and harder to maneuver in some state parks. I would recommend between 36'to 40'with at least three slides make for a pretty good motorhome.

Diesel coaches because of the engine make them heavy and cross winds hardly bother you. I have a Caterpillar engine and at 38' it weigh's 30K lbs where a gasoline motorhome the same length would probably weigh around 24K lbs.