Engine Oil

Conventional oils.
What I was getting at was that in the motor oil section the oil came out of the refinery in spec no enhancers for VI needed. Chemicals added where to keep oxygen out of the oil because we had a color requirement and oxygen in oil would oxidize and change the color rating. The other chemicals that where added where detergents for cleaning. Nothing was needed for VI stability or to bring it into specs.
As for the truck loads for gasoline we added approximately 250 CC of there chemical to the loads for there secret ingredients so they could call it theres...

RodHatter wrote:
427435
??? I made Motor oil for TEXACO for 3 years as an operator. The additives we added where the companies(weather it be SHELL TEXACO or Chevron) detergents or Oxygen scavengers. We sold directly to bulk buyers? So Im not sure where the information you received showed additives for improving the VI? When we ran the lab works the oil was in certain rangers If not in spec we could blend up or down depending on sales needs. But usually when the oil came off the units we hit specs and nothing was added.. Pretty much the same as gasoline. It all comes from the same tank goes to the loading facility if the sale is for SHELL we added approximately 250CC of there chemical (again SHELL Chevron or Texaco) additive to the 7400 gallons per truck load. This met there requirements to be sold in there stations.
Not trying to be hard headed or argumentative I just know this is how it was done because it was my job. Now I left the company in 2009 they very well could be adding chemicals for enhancers that I wouldn't know. I have Friends that still work there I can ask for future reference?

Were you producing conventional or synthetic oils? When you talk about adding a chemical package to a truck load, that sounds like you were producing gasoline.

427435
??? I made Motor oil for TEXACO for 3 years as an operator. The additives we added where the companies(weather it be SHELL TEXACO or Chevron) detergents or Oxygen scavengers. We sold directly to bulk buyers? So Im not sure where the information you received showed additives for improving the VI? When we ran the lab works the oil was in certain rangers If not in spec we could blend up or down depending on sales needs. But usually when the oil came off the units we hit specs and nothing was added.. Pretty much the same as gasoline. It all comes from the same tank goes to the loading facility if the sale is for SHELL we added approximately 250CC of there chemical (again SHELL Chevron or Texaco) additive to the 7400 gallons per truck load. This met there requirements to be sold in there stations.
Not trying to be hard headed or argumentative I just know this is how it was done because it was my job. Now I left the company in 2009 they very well could be adding chemicals for enhancers that I wouldn't know. I have Friends that still work there I can ask for future reference?

Basically, that's right. However, a multi-weight dino oil has a bunch of additives (VI improvers) that make it a 5w-30 oil. However, those additives break down with usage and, in as little as 1500 miles, that 5w-30 oil becomes a 5w-25 or maybe a 5w-20 oil a little later.

A synthetic oil, on the other hand, doesn't use many or any additives to become a multi-weight oil. The molecules are custom designed and manufactured to give it the 5w-30 viscosity-----------and it stays at or near that viscosity throughout its life.

So what I got out of the web page you supplied is that 5w is 5w at -30 and that is the same for either Oil or Synthetic.
Both have the same viscosity and -30
5W-50 3,500 @ -30 30,000 @ -40
5W 3,500 @ -25 60,000 @ -35

As with all multi-viscosity oils or synthetics as they heat up the viscosity changes and the oil gets heavier.
At temp the 5w-50 is 5w when cold and the vis raises as the temp goes up till it hits 50w?
The low will not get any lower than 5w and the high will not get any heavier than 50w.
Did I miss something?

Thanks

Viscosity is temperature related on a logarithmic scale. Here are the viscosities for a couple of Mobil 1 oils that I got a long time ago while working on engines.



Temp------5w-30------15w-50

-20----------6284--------21,852
0------------2129---------6462
25------------697---------1836
32------------531---------1348
50------------281----------657
100------------71----------138
150------------27-----------46
175------------18-----------30
200------------13-----------20
225------------10-----------15
250-------------7.6---------11.1



A 5w-20 oil would be similar at lower temps but thinner at higher temps than the 5w-30 oil.

As you can see, the 15w-50 oil would be a bad choice at cold temps, but fine at temps of 30-50 degrees and warmer. And likewise, a 20 weight oil at operating temps (probably single digit viscosity) won't provide the same bearing lubrication film strength that the other oils would (think climbing a mountain, pulling a toad, in hot weather, in a MH with an old cooling system).



Here's another chart (but the headings don't line up correctly).


SAE J300 Viscosity Classification - Motor Oil (January 2009)

SAE Viscosity Grade Low Temp. Cranking
(mPa.s)
max at temp °C Low Temp. Pumping
(mPa.s)
max at temp °C Minimum Kinematic
(mm2/s)
at 100°C Maximum Kinematic
(mm2/s)
at 100°C Hi-Temp. Hi-Shear
(mPa.s)
at 150°C @ 10/s
0W 6,200 @ -35 60,000 @ -40 3.8
5W 6,600 @ -30 60,000 @ -35 3.8
10W 7,000 @ -25 60,000 @ -30 4.1
15W 7,000 @ -20 60,000 @ -25 5.6
20W 9,500 @ -15 60,000 @ -20 5.6
25W 13,000 @ -10 60,000 @ -15 9.3
20 5.6 9.3 2.6
30 9.3 12.5 2.9
40 12.5 16.3 2.9
40 12.5 16.3 3.7
50 16.3 21.9 3.7
60 21.9 26.1 3.7
5W-50 6,250 @ -35 30,000 @ -40 16.9 18.0 5.0


Go to the link below to make sense out of the columns above:

http://www.lube4life.com/viscosit.htm#SAE_J300

Not sure I understand?
How can 5wt be heavier than 30 on start up or cold?
Wt is wt? from lighter to heavier?
Would you mind explaining?
I was lead to believe 10wt was transmission fluid.
90wt was differential fluid?
Is synthetic oil wt different?

I used 5-20 when new...and I kept adding oil, IMO too often. Like 1 quart every 1500 miles.
Went to 10-30 fossil. 13 years ago. 50,000+ and no engine problems. Didn't expect any. And...don't add oil between changes. Every 3-4000 miles including filter.

I don't know about the statement by another poster that fossil and synthetic are compatable (mix them?) Everything I've ever heard is to use one of the other. But not together.

Chopperbob wrote:
The 5-20 is used for the cam timeing not the epa.
Stay with 5-20. Why Take à chance?

Bob

I'm not aware that a V10 has variable cam timing---------at least not in the 2 valve engines. And in variable cam engines, it is pressure (controlled by electronic valves), not viscosity, that changes the timing.

Variable Camshaft Timing (VCT) is an automobile variable valve timing technology developed by Ford. It allows for more optimum engine performance, reduced emissions, and increased fuel efficiency compared to engines with fixed camshafts. It uses electronically controlled hydraulic valves that direct high pressure engine oil into the camshaft phaser cavity. These oil control solenoids are bolted into the cylinder heads towards the front of the engine near the camshaft phasers. The powertrain control module (PCM) transmits a signal to the solenoids to move a valve spool that regulates the flow of oil to the phaser cavity. The phaser cavity changes the valve timing by rotating the camshaft slightly from its initial orientation, which results in the camshaft timing being advanced or retarded. The PCM adjusts the camshaft timing depending on factors such as engine load and RPM.



And again, a 5w oil is far thicker at startup than a 30 or 40 weight oil is at operating temp.

Idahosrt10 wrote:
Don't use any oil other than 5w-20! Motorcraft semi-synthetic is factory fill. Using a heaver weight oil will compromise engine protection.

Nonsense. A 5w oil is far thicker at start-up than even a 50 weight oil is at operating temps---------------so how can a heavier (say 5w-40) oil hurt an engine.