First Time Buyer...Updated 03/06/2006

[JohnnyT]

This post is intended to be helpful to the first time buyer of a motor home. For those of you who don't fall into that category or believe this post is incomplete or off the mark, do us all a favor, and enlighten us. If all you have to offer is criticism with no corresponding constructive comments, no one besides yourself will benefit from the experience. So please improve or expand on this post in a constructive way.

The issue at hand is how to select the coach that best matches your wants and needs and offers the most promise of not being a perpetual headache.

I think there is an order to thinking through selecting a motor home that best maps to your wants, needs, and pocketbook. There are a lot of issues to get at and understand. Going about the process out of sequence will circumvent some critical steps and increases the potential that in the end you will not be as satisfied with what you buy as you could have been. I've heard it said that nothing can be seen until seen in a form that you're looking for. You give yourself the edge by determining your wants and needs first, letting them guide you to the make and model of motor home. Focus on deal making after your prioritized wants and needs have lead you to the type, make and model, and level of fit and finish that best fit your pocketbook.

BUDGET
I believe the first step for most will be to establish a framework relative to cost: decide how much you want to spend, how much you can spend, and how much you are willing to spend. For the most part you can count on spending more that you initially thought. Knowing what the max you can spend is a place to start.

While the initial cost is a lot more than the tip of the iceberg, the cost of ownership and operation bear some thought as well. Gain some insight into annual insurance cost, maintenance, and storage fees. Start making a list of items that will be purchased to support the RV. Don't forget the dingy and associated costs if you're planning on dragging one around, tow bar, braking system, car insurance and registration. Think about chemicals, hoses, adaptors, critical spares, tools, as well as outdoor furniture, grill, mats, and kitchen gadgets, cleaning supplies, hooks, and toilet paper holder! Then add on the operating costs: fuel, camping fees, charges for radio, television, and telephone, etc.

I personally think it's a mistake to go into the process thinking you can always trade in or up. It's a costly strategy. Try to get it right the first time. For many, the choice will boil down to compromising what they want to fit with what they can afford. All the more reason to spend the time and energy to figure out what you want and need and then prioritize your selections to get what you can afford.

Once you have established a framework for purchase budget and ownership cost, use that frame work to construct the best coach that will fit into it. At this point in time you may have a gross idea of size diesel pusher or gas... new versus used. You may even have a specific manufacturer you're interested in. These choices, especially the make and model, ought to flow from your wants and needs.

WANTS AND NEEDS
Go to work figuring out what you want in terms of livability and travel-ability. A good place to start is deciding if you're going to be a parker or a driver. Most motor homes are better suited to one or the other. Coaches with lots of slides are terrific when parked, but coaches with fewer slides may seem roomier when driving down the road with the slides in. Things to think about if you're a driver include how much room there is to move around with the sliders closed, and access to such things as storage areas and facilities like the washer/dryer.

The next and crucial step is to figure out what you think you want for power train, chassis, floor plan, features, amenities, and gadgets. Look at a lot of coaches, even trailers, and see what combinations seem to fit your lifestyle the best. As you get immersed in the process, I think you will find some of your original thoughts will change. The following checklist will give you some things to consider. Keep in mind that the right coach is out there; it just takes hard work to find it.

Will you spend more waking hours driving or parked?
What features need to be accessible while driving?
How many people do you need to sleep?
Is a queen-sized bed appropriate?
How long will you be using the coach at a stretch?
(weekends versus long trips)
How much storage will you require?
How fussy are you about the quality of workmanship in furnishings?
How much counter space do you want in the kitchen?
How often will you use an oven or washer/dryer?
Will a dinette or table and chairs suit you best?
How much privacy do you want for the bathroom?
Does anyone require upgraded seats or bed?
Will you tolerate losing speed on hills?
Are you concerned about miles per gallon or emissions controls?
How far do you want to be able to travel between fuel stops?
How much capacity do you want for water, black, and grey tanks?
Do you require pass-through storage for long items?
Do you want basement doors that open in a specific direction?
(to the side or up like a bus)
How important is soundproofing or insulation?
How important is entertainment, inside or outside?
How many televisions, and where?
Speakers or refrigerator in basement to use when camped?
Can you find the features you want in a used coach?

Livability... Casual Use to Full Timing

RESEARCH
Buying a motor home is easy... the hard part is selecting the one that will best fit your needs. Do a lot of looking and as much research as you can. Take notes about what you like and dislike in each coach you see. Do not accept that what you want is not available. After our first month of looking, we had a floor plan we liked but everything else was wrong. We almost bought that floor plan because we were beginning to think what we wanted was not available or economically attainable. Any fool can buy a motor home; the trick is not to be foolhardy about the process of selecting the one. Some people are smarter than we are; it took us months of intensive research, giving up every week end visiting dealers, hours of reading magazines, exploring all the internet sales sites, and forum surfing. In the end, we looked at 26 different models from 12 different manufacturers, and test drove most of them. We also visited a multitude of factories and found people to discuss ideas and assumptions. One thing to keep in mind, make sure that you adopt your own ideas and make your own priorities for features and functions. Others will have valuable insights, but those insights and perspectives will reflect their own priorities. As you listen, try to understand not only what they think is important, but also why. Get as many variant opinions as you can in arriving at your own conclusions. What's perfect for one can be a horrible mismatch for another.

There is no substitute for spending time in a prospective coach, visualizing daily routines in terms of workability and comfort and convenience... sit in every seating position, open and close everything that will do so, adjust anything that has an adjustment, especially the driver's and passenger's seats. Lie down on the bed, open up any convertible couches and test them for comfort. Walk through meal preparation and maneuvering around in the coach with a full complement of people and pets, both with sliders in and out. Go through the exercise both indoors and outdoors. Open the sliders and the awnings at the same time to check angles and clearances. Think through loading and unloading: is there enough space and is it easily accessible? See how cords and hoses roll in and out.

Do not expect that what you will get is any better than what you see in the showroom. So many times I got that response to an inquiry about a noticeable defect in terms of fit, finish, or operation. As you are deciding on the coach and examining the details of fit and finish, do not limit you looking to the interior. Look hard in all the equipment bays and in the engine compartment. A lot of unnecessary breakdowns are set up when the coach is mated to the chassis, look for hoses and wiring too close to heat source or that will rub, abrade, or get pinched, look for lapses in sealing seams. In other words, fit and finish has two flavors: cosmetic and functional. If what you can see looks slipshod, then what you can not see is not going to be any better.

Choosing Gasoline or Diesel Powered?

SELECTING THE DEALER
It seems that a lot of dissatisfaction that people experience lies at the doorstep of the dealer they choose. In other cases, I think some buyers have unrealistic expectations about how the dealer will react to their concerns and problems. Thorough vetting out of the dealer is of utmost importance. Talk to as many people as you can who have done business with the dealer. Also have some very frank discussions with your perspective dealer, starting with the salesperson, and then a review of your expectations with the salesperson and the sales manager together. Be specific, give examples, and require specific responses. Do not accept "You're in good hands All-State" responses.

TAKING DELIVERY
When you go to pick up your coach from the dealer have a thorough checklist of items to check. Do the inspection systematically. There are several lists already created that you can use as a starter. Here are a few thoughts.

„« Do not schedule your pick up of your new motor home on a Friday or a day before a holiday. That way the pressure to get it done will be lessened and there will be time for corrections to be made. Have extra time built into your schedule. Have a place to stay so there is no need to rush the inspection if you're picking up your coach remotely from where you live.

„« Make sure that all the documentation and manuals are present. Do an inventory and do not forget to get a list of all the serial and model numbers for all the warrantee registration. It's the job of the dealer to provide that.

„« Operate and test everything. Make sure you can do it yourself... and then do it, and have your companion do it. We got the in motion satellite and the home entertainment system; I am still the only one who can operate them...

„« Take notes of what you see that bothers you or questions that come to mind. If you don't get satisfactory answers to your question, just ask them again and again until you're satisfied. You have paid a lot of money for those answers.

„« Question anything you do not understand. Make sure you and spouse do not leave with any unanswered question... Nothing worse than to discover something and then hear the words, "I was wondering about that."


„« Do not assume anything has been checked or is working properly. Check them yourself, especially fluids and tire pressures... which means bring a suitable tire gauge. It would also be useful to have one of those indoor/ outdoor thermometers with a remote sensor to check air conditioner and heat performance, including the dash air.

„« If at all possible, go through the manuals and documentation before you do your acceptance inspection. Just take a couple of hours off in a corner; you will be amazed at the questions that will pop up. It's better to do that before you do your walk through.

„« Use one of the many cookbook PDA lists that are around. The best one I found was at http://www.rversonline.org/ArtFactoryPickup.html There is also a special section on air brakes on the rversonline site.

„« Do a test drive that will approximate how you will drive your motor home.

„« Go into the process expecting to have glitches and some your expectations not to be met. Focus on resolutions instead of recriminations. Don't let someone else's ignorance spoil what should be a very special day!!

OUR PERSONAL EXPERIENCE
From my own experience and what insights I have gained from private discussions with a number of first time buyers, the really tough issue is nailing down your wants, needs, and priorities and then overlaying the price one will have to pay. In our case we spent more than we originally set out to spend, but less than I could have. Deciding which manufacturer was not the starting point, it was the place to end...

Here are some of our answers to the questions I posed above:

Will you be a driver or a parker... In our case we are drivers. We tend to drive a lot and never stay in one place for very long while others will pick a destination, go there and plant themselves for a period of time, then return home. We wanted the maximum of space in the coach when the sliders were closed which was a governing factor in determining floor plan and the number of sliders. We also wanted certain key storage areas accessible and wanted access to the washer/dryer with the sliders closed. We wanted to maximize the kitchen counter space and be able to use the seating area and table while underway or for those times we stop in route. So we opted for a dinette which has the advantage being able to convert into a sleeping position (albeit for a short person). We also preferred not to deal with the chairs while underway which have a tendency to want to move around if not securely strapped down.

In terms of the bathroom, we wanted the toilet area separate from the shower and sink. We wanted to be able to separate the bathroom from the bedroom and the living area for those times when there would be others on board besides my wife and me.

We also chose to eliminate the up-front TV for increased visibility and to avoid a source for bumping heads. We wanted it placed elsewhere in the coach and at eye level so we wouldn't crane our necks up to watch.

We needed a floor plan that would comfortably sleep 5.

How far do you want to be able to travel between fuel stops... how much capacity do you want for water, black, and grey tanks... These are good issues to raise on forums; you will get a wide variety of answers. We arbitrarily decided we wanted a 1000 miles for fuel, and 3 to 5 days capacity for water and holding tanks.

It helps to be reasonable and recognize that it's better to start with the minimum you are willing to settle for and then the maximum you're willing to pay for. Be conservative in your estimates.

We wanted to have pass-through storage in the basement as well as sliding drawers, which eliminated some coaches including one that had our favorite floor plan in it. While you're thinking about storage, keep in mind there are different options for the type of doors used on basement storage. Aside from the conventional, there are bus style doors that cantilever up and out of the way, as well as side opening doors. Our coach has all three types.

We put a premium on insulation and the soundproofing of the coach when parked, so we paid attention to the specs and tested the noise level in the coach in terms of isolating the inside from the outside. We were focused on not being disturbed and not disturbing our neighbors. We wanted the coach to be as quiet as possible on the road as well as when parked.

We opted not to buy used, although there are many compelling reason to do so: initial cost and the potential that new coach bugs would be worked out. Part of our criteria was to bypass anything that had not had continual use, since disuse often accelerates the deterioration of such things as seals, hoses, belts and the like. In the end, we concluded we were unlikely to find a match for our wants and needs in a used coach and focused on going the new coach route. Once we decided we wanted a new coach, we soon discovered that it was going to require us to order one to get exactly what we wanted and would fit into our budget.

So we began to reduce the number of potential manufacturers from 12 down to 3 since the others did not offer what we wanted or their level of fit and finish wasn't acceptable to me. Having said that, I believe that with minor exceptions many of the manufacturers we deselected would have worked for us, had their offerings been a match to our wants and needs.

We placed a priority on which manufacturers would give us the most flexibility to make minor alterations to their standard fare; that got the list down to 2. In the end, we chose the one that gave us the most flexibility. Their reputation for warrantee support was also a determining factor, but any of the final three would have given terrific support based on their reputation.

In our case, we did not place a high premium on after sale dealer support. This is not a course I would recommend for every one but our situation was such that we were comfortable in taking on the responsibility of managing our service needs. It did take some work to establish a network of support once we bought. We have been fortunate to have had only one coach related issue, which was very minor. Other problems we have had were with the generator and our satellite system, where we dealt directly with the manufacturers with satisfactory results. We found both the coach manufacturer and the manufacturers of the specific components were very helpful in answering any questions that popped up.

When our coach was being built, I visited the factory to follow progress on the construction, timing the visit so I would be able to inspect what I was expecting in terms of wiring, plumbing, and interior construction. I was able to see our coach and other coaches down the line so I inspected each step of the build process.

This post will raise more questions than it answers which in part was the intent, and the offer up a process to get the answers...

If you interest is in Buying A Used Motorhome Here are Some Thoughts For First Time Buyers

Good luck in your odyssey it's a worthwhile journey.

JohnnyT

[geezerstreetrod]

Excellent review. I just started looking at the forum and it appears that I may have made a big mistake on my purchase price. I just signed a purchase order at an RV show for an 05 34' Monaco Monarch. Even considering the extra tradein (they gave me $8000 for a 95 27' l slide fiver) I'm still only going to get about 10% off msrp. It appears that 25% is the going discount, no? What do I do now - renegotiate, since I haven't yet signed a contract, only a brief "purchase order"? Coach is still at factory and due at Calif. dealer around Feb.1 (They did agree to add a hideabed free and a backup camera for "only$1000"). Any advice would be appreciated.

[bklemek]

Here’s my two cents!

My wife and I purchased are first Class A 7 years ago. We are in our early Forties. We have 4 boys starting at 14 yrs- 22 yrs. They commonly go with us on our trips but not all the time. We like getting out on the road at least 1 time a month with 2 15 day trips a year.

We decided to limit the amount we spent on the MH to about 30-40K and a max size of 34 feet to see how we liked it. It was affordable and easy to sell if it didn’t work out. After dealing with this 93 Southwind DP for three years, we learned what we liked and didn’t like and what type of adventures we were going on ie. ( lots of driving, or lots of time parked in a RV park or trying to get into small restricted campgrounds with size limits or just always lots of people with us!) My office manager a year or two after stepped up and purchased a brand new Fleetwood Excursion 39S 3 slides DP at about 165K.

Well, we found that the Bigger the better and too many slides ( two living room slides) make it hard to travel for big mileage trips ( 4500 miles in 10 days) but nice once you have landed! and what kind of extras you would like and what extras are useful, expense in fuel and power to climb hills, tow.

The real nice thing is that we easily sold our MH, lost very little money on it, and purchased the unit that best fit our habits, we all have different likes in a MH and the first time out you can’t know everything that will make your adventures in RVing the most it can be. So I think starting slow and be in the mind that you may only keep your first rig for maybe 2 years and work your way up, it’s a safe way to do it.

My manager has owned their 39S for 2 years and wouldn’t buy the one they have again, not because of problems but thing they thought was important when they bought it and found that now after 2 years the thinks they liked 2 years ago they just don’t use and find the coach falling short of their needs. They can’t sell the unit very easily and will lose a sizable amount of money when they sell, they are now shopping for a unit that is a better fit for them now.

I’m not done movin-up. But each year I’m learning more and more, and before I drop the BIG MONEY DOWN on a real nice rig, I’ll have the experience to make a good decision.

My 2 cents!

[np551]

Did you check www.rv.org?

[wrchilson]

For one, I am grateful for your advise on the first time buyer. My wife and I will pick our Class A up a week from Monday. Your advise is to stay in the dealer lot after pickup and check each system is exactly what we planned to do. We have been working this deal for about 6 months and again you are right. Don't rush, take you time. There is a lot of time available. Thanks again.

[Pusher]

I retired from the Air Force in 77. We had our plans so bought a house, poured an extra concrete drive way next to the house to park a Airstream trailer when we decided to buy. Than decided we did not want a trailer and decided on Class A. When we were in our late 50's we started to look for Class A's and found that they had grown in height and would not fit in a carport next to the house. We knew what we wanted and it took 5 years to find just the one with all the major items we wanted. It was older than we wanted but had low mileage and fit the carport. Other than age it is perfect. We are now correcting all the little things that prove that the designers of RV vehicles have never lived in one for any length of time.
Good luck and do your research and take what your friends tell you with a grain of salt. They probably do not have the same requirements as you do.
Pusher

[T__GALL]

well i don't have that anwser, i am still trying to figure out how the msrp can be 90,000.00 and they can sell it for 70,000.00
i am guessing there is about a $30,000.00 mark up. the dealer i am dealing with told me they have an independence 32 ft. for $77,000.00
and a pursuit 35 ft. for $70,000.00
they say they payed the same amount for both huh. you tell me.



good luck we all need it

[B_B_2_GO]

The question for me is how do you find out the RV dealer's cost for that shiny new coach? For CAR buying, there are many sources of pricing info to help the savvy buyer find out what dealers pay for the vehicles on their lot and what the manufacturers dealer incentives and holdbacks are (so you can offer X dollars over invoice). Is there a similar source for RVs? If so, where is it?

Thanks from someone who's going to be a first-time Class A buyer in 2005 and is "antsy" about the process!

[FirstSgt111]

In the industry of RV sales, you will find many dealerships with a range of prices for the same coach. There is no magic % a dealersip will deal to or for. Most people hate the negotiation part of the deal. Then there are others that lock themselves to a % off and will walk away from a great deal.
Here's the key. INTEREST RATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There are dealerships running rates as low as 2.99%. Some on only one coach. That's the Car ad, (One at this price) Hook. Some dealerships are running it on all their coaches. Here's your choice, pay the bank or get a great rate and pay the dealer. I saved $80K by getting a 10% discount, (Free/Clear) trade, and a 2.99% rate.
Even with a 25% discount, if you are at a 6% or 7% rate, you just lost your discount, and gave it to the bank.
RATE RATE RATE. It can buy you more coach than you thought you could afford.

[JanBCarter]

Gotom: Boy I agree the maintenance issue is an important one.Many years back, we bought a used mid '60's Dodge class C when our two girls were teens. The "womenfolk" just loved it, while it seemed like Dad spent all the time they were out exploring fixing "stuff" with which he just wasn't familar. I just do not want to go through that experience now. Like you, I spend a lot of my youth hot rodding and working on my cars when you could actually work on them. Todays class A's are a marvel of engineering and computers, all of which would seem to necessitate a trip to the shop at the slightest hiccup. That really gives me cause for concern. I'll be interested in the replies you receive. Happy holidays
JB

[JanBCarter]

What a great post Johnny; particularly to one like me who is about to venture into the RV world, and barely knows the questions to ask! Right now, the question of the day seems to be whether to buy a new class B (or big C) or a used Class A. We originally thought we wanted to stay as small as was consistent with at least a queen bed and a moderate budget. That puts us into a new 28' or larger gas E450 (like a Minnie Winnie) which at some $85K well equipped isn't far off the mark of some of the used 34'+ class A's I'm seeing on ebay which are generally better powered with "real" diesels (Cat & Cummins 250-300hp and great torque), Allison's and very well equipped on truck (read 400,000+ miles expected life) chassis.

Just pure conjecture, but the E450 would just seem more user friendly and easier to drive than a class A Freightliner or such, but I'm not sure. Any comments along these lines.

Again thanks for the post and your willingness to share this information....to the fellow that said: "too long for me", here's a suggestion....don't read it 'cause you obviously don't need it.

JB

[CountryCoachrv]

I have one small suggestion for anyone enamoured by the shiny, new models with all the glitzy look.....and a corresponding outrageous price tag. Walk away and go take a look at the used rigs...you'll save a ton of drive off the lot depreciation....your rig has lost about 30% of it's value when you drive it off the lot. And, the dealer you bought it from would not even give you anywhere close to 70% of what you paid for it the day after you buy it. You will many great 1,2,3 year old rigs for sale on the net at great prices relative to dealers asking price. I go to Lazy Days site and I see a rig the age of my rig with an asking price of $40k more than I can find the same rig for sell at www.rvsearch.com...sure Lazy Days will make repairs on everything you find wrong with it but you could make a heck of a lot of repairs for that difference.

I bought new but I would never do that again even though I bought a great mh and I love it, the new price was just too high compared to what I could have gotten a year old model for from an individual.

As far as what is a fair price for a new rig, depends on the rig but you should start at 30% off MSRP with a target price of around 26% as your best and final offer. If a particular dealer isn't interested in taking your money at 26% off walk til you find one that will....you will find one that will.

Country Coach Owner
2000 40 foot Intrigue

[Gotom]

JohnnyT - Thank you for this article. We have spent almost a month trying to decide if a Class A motor home is right for us. After reading all of the comments regarding heat, maintenance, windshields, ride height, parking, etc., I am leery of my ability to keep up with it all. I built and raced cars in my teenage years and do all the maintenance on 3 boats and 2 snowmobiles now but it seems that there is so much to consider to properly maintain all the equipment on an RV that I'm not sure I want to sign up for it all.

I started the same way you outline in your article trying to decide how we will use it. We want to spend two months in Arizona in the winter and will take trips during the summer throughout the U.S. and Canada.

Could someone please put the maintenance in perspective for me. We own a home in town and another at the lake and it seems to me that this would be a third home to maintain. We'd love traveling with our two dogs and I really like to drive but I don't want the RV to be something we have to worry about constantly.

Thanks to anyone who can help make this decision easier.

[B_B_2_GO]

Don & Boots,

I looked for, but didn't see, the answer to your query. It's exactly the question I've been wrestling with -- how the heck do I know when I've found the "real" price?

What'd you find out?

Thanks! Al Smith

[Bob_AnnaMarie]

JohnnyT

Fabulous post! I have printed this off and review it often. In retrospect, I have followed your suggestions, although not in order. Your order would have shortened the “adventure”, but heck, the adventure is part of the fun.

The recent price hikes in the 2005 models have moved us from the new to the “experienced” market, since I do believe in your first step. But, I do believe one point we experienced still belongs in the “new buyers” guidebook. That is: Look at a used coach representative of the new one you want to buy new.

Based on several people’s input on this site and others we had a working shortlist even before we went “coach hunting”. Then we happened across 3 2003 models of one of the coaches that was the top of our list. In all three of the coaches we found mid-coach torque damage that was clearly unacceptable to us. The torque damage showed up as shower doors that would not open and close, toilet doors that no longer hit the door stop molding or did not align with the latching mechanism. In one coach the trim on the rear end closet had been ripped loose from twisting in the coach. In another the wood trim had already scuffed some of the wallpaper and was working on digging a hole in the wall. Seeing the same cheap shower stall configuration on the 2005 models at a local RV show, confirmed for us that this coach would be excluded from consideration.

From what I have seen, most manufacturers do not make substantial changes from year to year. So looking at a coach about 2 to 3 years older than the one you want to buy will give you some idea of how your coach might look in 2 years. It certainly had an impact on us even though my wife really likes one of the 2005 models.

Thanks again for your wonderful post. It has helped immensely.

[mondessi]

Pretty much everyon agrees that JT article is a must for even the repeted buyer, however my question is. what is the power plant that I need to move such a large coach (diesel) I see that a lot of manufactures are moving into 7 foot ceilings and 400 hp engines, and what about the chasi, there has got to be at least half dozen choices, what to do.

please help.