First Time Buyer...Updated 03/06/2006

[JohnnyT]

This post is intended to be helpful to the first time buyer of a motor home. For those of you who don't fall into that category or believe this post is incomplete or off the mark, do us all a favor, and enlighten us. If all you have to offer is criticism with no corresponding constructive comments, no one besides yourself will benefit from the experience. So please improve or expand on this post in a constructive way.

The issue at hand is how to select the coach that best matches your wants and needs and offers the most promise of not being a perpetual headache.

I think there is an order to thinking through selecting a motor home that best maps to your wants, needs, and pocketbook. There are a lot of issues to get at and understand. Going about the process out of sequence will circumvent some critical steps and increases the potential that in the end you will not be as satisfied with what you buy as you could have been. I've heard it said that nothing can be seen until seen in a form that you're looking for. You give yourself the edge by determining your wants and needs first, letting them guide you to the make and model of motor home. Focus on deal making after your prioritized wants and needs have lead you to the type, make and model, and level of fit and finish that best fit your pocketbook.

BUDGET
I believe the first step for most will be to establish a framework relative to cost: decide how much you want to spend, how much you can spend, and how much you are willing to spend. For the most part you can count on spending more that you initially thought. Knowing what the max you can spend is a place to start.

While the initial cost is a lot more than the tip of the iceberg, the cost of ownership and operation bear some thought as well. Gain some insight into annual insurance cost, maintenance, and storage fees. Start making a list of items that will be purchased to support the RV. Don't forget the dingy and associated costs if you're planning on dragging one around, tow bar, braking system, car insurance and registration. Think about chemicals, hoses, adaptors, critical spares, tools, as well as outdoor furniture, grill, mats, and kitchen gadgets, cleaning supplies, hooks, and toilet paper holder! Then add on the operating costs: fuel, camping fees, charges for radio, television, and telephone, etc.

I personally think it's a mistake to go into the process thinking you can always trade in or up. It's a costly strategy. Try to get it right the first time. For many, the choice will boil down to compromising what they want to fit with what they can afford. All the more reason to spend the time and energy to figure out what you want and need and then prioritize your selections to get what you can afford.

Once you have established a framework for purchase budget and ownership cost, use that frame work to construct the best coach that will fit into it. At this point in time you may have a gross idea of size diesel pusher or gas... new versus used. You may even have a specific manufacturer you're interested in. These choices, especially the make and model, ought to flow from your wants and needs.

WANTS AND NEEDS
Go to work figuring out what you want in terms of livability and travel-ability. A good place to start is deciding if you're going to be a parker or a driver. Most motor homes are better suited to one or the other. Coaches with lots of slides are terrific when parked, but coaches with fewer slides may seem roomier when driving down the road with the slides in. Things to think about if you're a driver include how much room there is to move around with the sliders closed, and access to such things as storage areas and facilities like the washer/dryer.

The next and crucial step is to figure out what you think you want for power train, chassis, floor plan, features, amenities, and gadgets. Look at a lot of coaches, even trailers, and see what combinations seem to fit your lifestyle the best. As you get immersed in the process, I think you will find some of your original thoughts will change. The following checklist will give you some things to consider. Keep in mind that the right coach is out there; it just takes hard work to find it.

Will you spend more waking hours driving or parked?
What features need to be accessible while driving?
How many people do you need to sleep?
Is a queen-sized bed appropriate?
How long will you be using the coach at a stretch?
(weekends versus long trips)
How much storage will you require?
How fussy are you about the quality of workmanship in furnishings?
How much counter space do you want in the kitchen?
How often will you use an oven or washer/dryer?
Will a dinette or table and chairs suit you best?
How much privacy do you want for the bathroom?
Does anyone require upgraded seats or bed?
Will you tolerate losing speed on hills?
Are you concerned about miles per gallon or emissions controls?
How far do you want to be able to travel between fuel stops?
How much capacity do you want for water, black, and grey tanks?
Do you require pass-through storage for long items?
Do you want basement doors that open in a specific direction?
(to the side or up like a bus)
How important is soundproofing or insulation?
How important is entertainment, inside or outside?
How many televisions, and where?
Speakers or refrigerator in basement to use when camped?
Can you find the features you want in a used coach?

Livability... Casual Use to Full Timing

RESEARCH
Buying a motor home is easy... the hard part is selecting the one that will best fit your needs. Do a lot of looking and as much research as you can. Take notes about what you like and dislike in each coach you see. Do not accept that what you want is not available. After our first month of looking, we had a floor plan we liked but everything else was wrong. We almost bought that floor plan because we were beginning to think what we wanted was not available or economically attainable. Any fool can buy a motor home; the trick is not to be foolhardy about the process of selecting the one. Some people are smarter than we are; it took us months of intensive research, giving up every week end visiting dealers, hours of reading magazines, exploring all the internet sales sites, and forum surfing. In the end, we looked at 26 different models from 12 different manufacturers, and test drove most of them. We also visited a multitude of factories and found people to discuss ideas and assumptions. One thing to keep in mind, make sure that you adopt your own ideas and make your own priorities for features and functions. Others will have valuable insights, but those insights and perspectives will reflect their own priorities. As you listen, try to understand not only what they think is important, but also why. Get as many variant opinions as you can in arriving at your own conclusions. What's perfect for one can be a horrible mismatch for another.

There is no substitute for spending time in a prospective coach, visualizing daily routines in terms of workability and comfort and convenience... sit in every seating position, open and close everything that will do so, adjust anything that has an adjustment, especially the driver's and passenger's seats. Lie down on the bed, open up any convertible couches and test them for comfort. Walk through meal preparation and maneuvering around in the coach with a full complement of people and pets, both with sliders in and out. Go through the exercise both indoors and outdoors. Open the sliders and the awnings at the same time to check angles and clearances. Think through loading and unloading: is there enough space and is it easily accessible? See how cords and hoses roll in and out.

Do not expect that what you will get is any better than what you see in the showroom. So many times I got that response to an inquiry about a noticeable defect in terms of fit, finish, or operation. As you are deciding on the coach and examining the details of fit and finish, do not limit you looking to the interior. Look hard in all the equipment bays and in the engine compartment. A lot of unnecessary breakdowns are set up when the coach is mated to the chassis, look for hoses and wiring too close to heat source or that will rub, abrade, or get pinched, look for lapses in sealing seams. In other words, fit and finish has two flavors: cosmetic and functional. If what you can see looks slipshod, then what you can not see is not going to be any better.

Choosing Gasoline or Diesel Powered?

SELECTING THE DEALER
It seems that a lot of dissatisfaction that people experience lies at the doorstep of the dealer they choose. In other cases, I think some buyers have unrealistic expectations about how the dealer will react to their concerns and problems. Thorough vetting out of the dealer is of utmost importance. Talk to as many people as you can who have done business with the dealer. Also have some very frank discussions with your perspective dealer, starting with the salesperson, and then a review of your expectations with the salesperson and the sales manager together. Be specific, give examples, and require specific responses. Do not accept "You're in good hands All-State" responses.

TAKING DELIVERY
When you go to pick up your coach from the dealer have a thorough checklist of items to check. Do the inspection systematically. There are several lists already created that you can use as a starter. Here are a few thoughts.

„« Do not schedule your pick up of your new motor home on a Friday or a day before a holiday. That way the pressure to get it done will be lessened and there will be time for corrections to be made. Have extra time built into your schedule. Have a place to stay so there is no need to rush the inspection if you're picking up your coach remotely from where you live.

„« Make sure that all the documentation and manuals are present. Do an inventory and do not forget to get a list of all the serial and model numbers for all the warrantee registration. It's the job of the dealer to provide that.

„« Operate and test everything. Make sure you can do it yourself... and then do it, and have your companion do it. We got the in motion satellite and the home entertainment system; I am still the only one who can operate them...

„« Take notes of what you see that bothers you or questions that come to mind. If you don't get satisfactory answers to your question, just ask them again and again until you're satisfied. You have paid a lot of money for those answers.

„« Question anything you do not understand. Make sure you and spouse do not leave with any unanswered question... Nothing worse than to discover something and then hear the words, "I was wondering about that."


„« Do not assume anything has been checked or is working properly. Check them yourself, especially fluids and tire pressures... which means bring a suitable tire gauge. It would also be useful to have one of those indoor/ outdoor thermometers with a remote sensor to check air conditioner and heat performance, including the dash air.

„« If at all possible, go through the manuals and documentation before you do your acceptance inspection. Just take a couple of hours off in a corner; you will be amazed at the questions that will pop up. It's better to do that before you do your walk through.

„« Use one of the many cookbook PDA lists that are around. The best one I found was at http://www.rversonline.org/ArtFactoryPickup.html There is also a special section on air brakes on the rversonline site.

„« Do a test drive that will approximate how you will drive your motor home.

„« Go into the process expecting to have glitches and some your expectations not to be met. Focus on resolutions instead of recriminations. Don't let someone else's ignorance spoil what should be a very special day!!

OUR PERSONAL EXPERIENCE
From my own experience and what insights I have gained from private discussions with a number of first time buyers, the really tough issue is nailing down your wants, needs, and priorities and then overlaying the price one will have to pay. In our case we spent more than we originally set out to spend, but less than I could have. Deciding which manufacturer was not the starting point, it was the place to end...

Here are some of our answers to the questions I posed above:

Will you be a driver or a parker... In our case we are drivers. We tend to drive a lot and never stay in one place for very long while others will pick a destination, go there and plant themselves for a period of time, then return home. We wanted the maximum of space in the coach when the sliders were closed which was a governing factor in determining floor plan and the number of sliders. We also wanted certain key storage areas accessible and wanted access to the washer/dryer with the sliders closed. We wanted to maximize the kitchen counter space and be able to use the seating area and table while underway or for those times we stop in route. So we opted for a dinette which has the advantage being able to convert into a sleeping position (albeit for a short person). We also preferred not to deal with the chairs while underway which have a tendency to want to move around if not securely strapped down.

In terms of the bathroom, we wanted the toilet area separate from the shower and sink. We wanted to be able to separate the bathroom from the bedroom and the living area for those times when there would be others on board besides my wife and me.

We also chose to eliminate the up-front TV for increased visibility and to avoid a source for bumping heads. We wanted it placed elsewhere in the coach and at eye level so we wouldn't crane our necks up to watch.

We needed a floor plan that would comfortably sleep 5.

How far do you want to be able to travel between fuel stops... how much capacity do you want for water, black, and grey tanks... These are good issues to raise on forums; you will get a wide variety of answers. We arbitrarily decided we wanted a 1000 miles for fuel, and 3 to 5 days capacity for water and holding tanks.

It helps to be reasonable and recognize that it's better to start with the minimum you are willing to settle for and then the maximum you're willing to pay for. Be conservative in your estimates.

We wanted to have pass-through storage in the basement as well as sliding drawers, which eliminated some coaches including one that had our favorite floor plan in it. While you're thinking about storage, keep in mind there are different options for the type of doors used on basement storage. Aside from the conventional, there are bus style doors that cantilever up and out of the way, as well as side opening doors. Our coach has all three types.

We put a premium on insulation and the soundproofing of the coach when parked, so we paid attention to the specs and tested the noise level in the coach in terms of isolating the inside from the outside. We were focused on not being disturbed and not disturbing our neighbors. We wanted the coach to be as quiet as possible on the road as well as when parked.

We opted not to buy used, although there are many compelling reason to do so: initial cost and the potential that new coach bugs would be worked out. Part of our criteria was to bypass anything that had not had continual use, since disuse often accelerates the deterioration of such things as seals, hoses, belts and the like. In the end, we concluded we were unlikely to find a match for our wants and needs in a used coach and focused on going the new coach route. Once we decided we wanted a new coach, we soon discovered that it was going to require us to order one to get exactly what we wanted and would fit into our budget.

So we began to reduce the number of potential manufacturers from 12 down to 3 since the others did not offer what we wanted or their level of fit and finish wasn't acceptable to me. Having said that, I believe that with minor exceptions many of the manufacturers we deselected would have worked for us, had their offerings been a match to our wants and needs.

We placed a priority on which manufacturers would give us the most flexibility to make minor alterations to their standard fare; that got the list down to 2. In the end, we chose the one that gave us the most flexibility. Their reputation for warrantee support was also a determining factor, but any of the final three would have given terrific support based on their reputation.

In our case, we did not place a high premium on after sale dealer support. This is not a course I would recommend for every one but our situation was such that we were comfortable in taking on the responsibility of managing our service needs. It did take some work to establish a network of support once we bought. We have been fortunate to have had only one coach related issue, which was very minor. Other problems we have had were with the generator and our satellite system, where we dealt directly with the manufacturers with satisfactory results. We found both the coach manufacturer and the manufacturers of the specific components were very helpful in answering any questions that popped up.

When our coach was being built, I visited the factory to follow progress on the construction, timing the visit so I would be able to inspect what I was expecting in terms of wiring, plumbing, and interior construction. I was able to see our coach and other coaches down the line so I inspected each step of the build process.

This post will raise more questions than it answers which in part was the intent, and the offer up a process to get the answers...

If you interest is in Buying A Used Motorhome Here are Some Thoughts For First Time Buyers

Good luck in your odyssey it's a worthwhile journey.

JohnnyT

[setraveler]

Always, always insist, demand, assure, OWNER and operating manuals on ALL the Hardware, to include wiring diagrams of unit and hardware. You must have them if anything goes wrong, if not there assure you can get them. I turned down one unit as NO manuals of any kind, All you need is one unit needing repairs and no manual and misery, same for ALL units model and serial numbers, often you can find more data to help on www, but get the numbers NOW, record them in log or such. Saves grubbing about, probably in miserable weather trying to find the hard data that is core to any repairs or maintenance. A few hours now getting data and recording it will save much grief latter on, and some day you will need it, even for all the filters etc.

Note Gig Harbor, miss the place as had sailboat moored at end of water by restaurant, lovely place then as was there before it got "discovered by Tacoma" now is?

[RJ_Miles]

buying first motorhome 98, pace arrow with 7.4L chevy engine, price is good but have no experience chevy 7.4L engine, seems light to me. any advice is appreciated. thanks

[BobOB1775]

I've just started researching RV's and trying to justify the expenditure, weighing overall cost, how much it will get used, etc. I found this thread out of all the forums to be incredibly insightful.

I can tell by reading the original threads that there are many people like me who've gone through the same exercise. More than likely, my wife and I will purchase a Class A within the next two years. We are both retired and our property has a nice RV garage just waiting for something to put into it other than clutter.

We are a Sheltie breeder and want to take our guys on trips rather than have a house sitter watch them while we travel. The tough part will be deciding on a floor plan that we can make room for their crates, yet still have enough room for us. I know three will want to sleep on a bed at night too!

I'm currently on several forums and hope to find additional resources on line where I can get good advice from people like you. Thank all of you for providing such good information.

[vito98103]

1- Never pay close to retail for a new unit. 75% of window sticker is a good starting point as the dealer generally pays about 70%. 5% on a $300,000 sale is $15,000 - a very reasonable profit.

2- Used is often a good deal as quality and build issues have generally been identified and fixed. But those who paid too much when they bought it new (see #1) are often upside down and trying to get out from under the bank loan. I've seen many used motorhomes with asking price higher than a smart buyer would pay for a new one - seller is hoping to find another chump.

3- Some brands are better quality than others. And some were made better in the past than they are now. Most manufacturers make noise about their quality control, but for some it's just noise.

4- Lemon laws don't apply to RVs in most states, so that's not an option if there are problems.

5- A factory tour can be useful in determining build quality. Talk to the people who build them.

6- Before buying, take a serious road test (up and down big hills/mountain passes, corners and high-speed hands-off-the-wheel panic stops). Include a trip to the truck scales & weigh all 4 corners. If the dealer resists, run! You always sea-trial a boat before buying and the crappier the weather the better - any boat looks good on a calm sunny day; some boats are designed to appeal to novices at the boat show. Better to find out now that it performs poorly when things get dicey - those boats become 'dock queens'.

7- Some RV dealers started as used car lots (like some camera stores that started as pawn shops) and have little service & repair capability. Investigate/see for yourself.

8- Before buying, show yourself to be a serious buyer (you can afford this unit) and then run everything. If something needs fixing, replacing or adjusting, you'll be back when the work is complete and retested; promises are meaningless.

9- No deal is so good that you can't walk away.

[rdcsjc]

That was some great info. My wife are signing papers tomorrow so was very helpful. Our plan is to be full time RVers. I'm retiring in 3 years and will use the time to learn how to adjust to the new life style. You offered up some great advice. Can you direct me to any books that might help me out? There is just so much to try to understand and learn. How about clubs or memberships to join. Thanks for any help you can offer.

[bertnspike]

Sondra wrote:
Hello, first time buyer here with my husband. Floor plan is very important to us, we plan on driving down to Florida for 4-5 months out of the year from Illinois.Thank you, Sondra

Sondra, you really should look at used motor homes. First, because this IS your first one, you may decide after just a few months that it's just not the right one for you, or you may find yourself wishing you'd gotten a fifth-wheel, or you wish you'd gotten a condo in Florida instead. Trade it in on a new one in a year or so, if you still want to.

Second, because ALL motor homes have problems, by the time someone puts several thousand miles on it they've worked out most of the bugs. A new motor home very often spends its first few MONTHS in and out of the shop to bring everything up to snuff. There are hundreds of different systems and thousands of separate parts in an RV. It is simply not possible for an RV to come right off the production line at 100% and very few dealers will go over it with a fine-toothed comb before it hits the lot. Also, with many things, it's impossible to know whether it's working right or not until you go out and use it on the road. If you buy used someone ELSE had to go through all that crap.

Third, because for half the money you can get twice the coach. You can then afford to have modifications done to suit you and make it into a custom coach. Suppose you discover that the sofa is the most uncomfortable thing you've ever been on (and you couldn't tell until you'd used it a few times)? How would you feel about having to replace a brand new sofa? Modifications to something that's not new are easier to stomach! And just imagine what the depreciation would be on a new RV.

A lot of people use their coaches very gently - especially when you're talking about a luxury 40 footer. I would expect that to be fairly easy to find in excellent condition with low mileage, due to the fact that it was probably used just as you intend to use it. The idea that a used motor home was someone else's headache is seldom true and having a knowledgeable independent RV service person thoroughly check everything out BEFORE you sign anything will go a long way toward assuring you of that.

Take all that money you'll save and spend it on Coach Net emergency roadside coverage and safety additions and upgrade the televisions and buy a portable dish and other things like that. The useability, convenience, and personal comfort of your RV is far more important than the age of it. A lot of those things you'll buy will transfer to a new coach when the time comes too.

[JohnnyT]

Sondra do not discount buying a used motorhome. There is a link to a tread on buying used in the opening post of this thread.

I would suggest you find some candidates that meet your needs, wants and pocketbook then ask for some feedback for you to consider.

Each particular brand will have its naysayers and cheerleaders.

I think you will get a better response if you post your inquires as a thread in rather than a post to this thread...

Johnny

[Sondra]

Hello, first time buyer here with my husband. Yesterday we looked at Fleetwood Discovery and loved it. However it is $209,000, a bit above our budget. We don't even know if this is a good RV or not, it was 40 foot which we know we want.

Can anyone be so kind to help out this rookie in what RV model to buy; new or used; best years if used and any other information would be helpful. Floor plan is very important to us, we plan on driving down to Florida for 4-5 months out of the year from Illinois.

Thank you,
Sondra

[bertnspike]

retiredlife wrote:
Most of the RV's built are sub-standard at best. Knowing that you realize that it IS NOT an INVESTMENT, but a loss. Unlike Boats, RV's seem to loose there value fast, so you got to make sure that it is right for you. As for Lazyday's & Camping World; not someone I would do business with. Lots of hype, but little performance in my opinion. Same for LaMesa RV out west. Several locations, and no where will you get an honest deal, or I should say a fair deal for yourself.

Good Luck, remember the laws in most States state: "Buyer Beware". IF IT IS NOT IN WRITING, THEN IT IS A LIE!

How very encouraging you are!

[retiredlife]

Most of the RV's built are sub-standard at best. Knowing that you realize that it IS NOT an INVESTMENT, but a loss. Unlike Boats, RV's seem to loose there value fast, so you got to make sure that it is right for you. As for Lazyday's & Camping World; not someone I would do business with. Lots of hype, but little performance in my opinion. Same for LaMesa RV out west. Several locations, and no where will you get an honest deal, or I should say a fair deal for yourself.

Good Luck, remember the laws in most States state: "Buyer Beware". IF IT IS NOT IN WRITING, THEN IT IS A LIE!

[bertnspike]

SailorGirl, have you tried LazyDays in Tampa? It's only a few hours away, and they have a HUGE selection of RVs. Also, they can take care of everything there. I did a lot of research first and went into LazyDays with several lists and many strict budget items and came out of there VERY happy. My only complaint with them is that getting work done there takes forever. However, you can stay there in your RV while the work is done & they will feed you 2x a day if you do.

[setraveler]

Fully agree on CW, drove there one time and finally left after feeling like being in some sort of run down used car lot with sales folks of same type. Was a while back, but will never return. Shudder to think what would happen if we bought at one place and attempted to get warranty etc at another, plus their prices way to high.

Note: Rule of thumb with any dealer of any product for us on, if they will not post prices as "to low to post" then we go elsewhere.

[SailorGirl]

Okay so I've research and decided on what RV would be best for us. We def wanted to buy through Camping World for many reason. One of them was that if we found one we liked, it could be brought to FL for us to inspect and purchase. We found "the one" but the CW dealer who has it, would not release it to us. We would have to drive 11 hrs to his facility. Just having back surgery, this was not an option. We missed out on the first one we found, due to a salesman's' error. We drove 2.5 hrs to look at, (and hopefully purchase) the Winne of our dreams. But 15 mins before we arrived they sold it. The salesman I talked to knew we were driving to Tampa to look at a specific RV and NEVER told us we could put a deposit on it to hold it till we arrived. (loss #1). And now I have a disrespectful salesman, who has lied and been cruel.
So moral of the story, put down a deposit to hold an RV you are driving to look at and beware of camping World salesmen. I am getting very frustrated and disappointed with CW. They are not all they are cracked up to be.

[Stormdog]

Newbie Class A owner. Previously had pop-up. Very informative and quite helpful. Our first trip was a dream come true. 🙂

[shaneperch]

setraveler wrote:
NOTE I learned from buying new boat applies to RV, used or new. The operations and owner manual are critical to use. BEFORE you close deal, make part of closing/title etc this. ALL operations/owner manuals will be placed on or beside the item(S) they apply to, work with, etc. Then each item will be shown by seller as to operation, maintaining, manuals etc until you KNOW, or both of you KNOW how to operate/maintain them.

If you do not do this, you end up with a stack of paper that may or may not be there when you need it, may or may not apply to your model or they just do not have the manuals. You will some day find you need the manual, that you never got, so insist on manual next to item and remove when you know how to operate. Kind of takes care of two critical items at one time.
I learned lesson the hard way on a diesel filter on engine that seemed to only shut off when nearly wrecking place while docking, usually in front of hundreds of people whom wondered how come I even allowed to own boat, much less use it. Seems the valve I thought was shut, was not 100% so and sucked air when it felt like it at idle. I found that out when I bought missing manual

YES totally agree with this. I got a huge binder with all the manuals that came with all the gear that was installed. it breaks my heart to see the manual for the generator and the ice maker that are missing now to answer what I did with my class "A" motorhome,,, I just got finished installing my Onan generator to replace the missing Kohler that was taken out at one time before I got this motorhome.