Freezin our butts off!!

[Licreek]

Hello all, spending our first winter in our 36' Damon pusher. Our furnace is busted and I'm trying to heat with space heaters. The heater in the bedroom works great but I can't seem to warm the living and one super slide. I bought what I thought was a large space heater. It got down to 24 degrees last night and it was really COLD in here. Is there such a thing as a high output electric space heater? I know the max output for the heaters is 1500 watts but wondered if there is one that is more efficient? Which one puts out the largest volume of heat? Any suggestions? Thanks, Lee

[CA_Traveler]

down home wrote:
This is important because you don't want to destroy your mh electric by plugging into a 240 volt pug as quite a few have.
We don't have 50 amp 240 volt service. You have two 50 amp legs and a common ground. 100 amps total but on two legs unless you have a Prevost or other with two fifty amp cables and 100 amp service.
Don't hit your mh with 240 Volts. It might burn up but will msot certainly be expensive if the breakers can't handle it.

50A RV power IS 240/120V. Most RV's don't have 240V appliances.

Actually it's 2 120V hot legs with a common NEUTRAL.

You may be thinking of a 30A RV plug which is physically similar to the common house hold dryer 30A 240V plug. Some have wired the 30A RV plug with 240V and wish that hadn't done so.

[Neil_Citro]

down home wrote:

rhagfo wrote:

Bill.Satellite wrote:

rhagfo wrote:

Bill.Satellite wrote:
If they are talking about the Cheap Heat system it IS 5000 watts and requires 50 amp service as it does draw somewhere close to 40 amps. Nothing cheap about that if you have to pay the electric bill.

If you don’t know what you are talking about, you should stay out of the discussion!

#1. It DOESN'T require a 50 amp service to operate, on the 1,800 watt setting it works on a 30 amp service, through a 20 amp breaker.

#2. On the 5,000 watt setting, yes a 50 amp 208 volt service is required, but the system runs on a 30 amp 208 volt breaker.

We have a 32’ 5er the we heated to 70 degrees easily with outside temperatures in the low forty’s on the 1,800 watt setting on a 30 amp service used other electrical device without issues.

Currently on a 50 amp service, and the 5,000 watt setting and will heat us down in to the teens.

I am seriously considering the new add on box that auto detects the voltage 120/208 and switches to the correct wattage for the service one is connected to. I can manually change over in about 20 minutes, but having it do it automatically would be nice.

It doesn’t make any difference if use cheap heat or electric space heaters, you are still using electricity so the bill will be the same. My furnace doesn’t run continuously cycles just like using gas.

Thanks for the kind thoughts! Also, thanks for confirming that you are going to need 50 amp service if you plan to use the 5000W option. There is NO 208 V service available with 30 amp service. Don't you hate it when that happens!

Yep, sure do!!:S

I looked in to this closely before deciding to install. Several emails to the developer. Once I realized that the package was one set of components, just wired differently, I decided to buy.
As I have stated I have wiring for both 30 amp 120 volt and 50 amp 240 volt installed, and it takes about 20 minutes of work to switch. RV Comfort Systems now offer an auto switch device for $119, which I am seriously thinking of installing to save the time and effort.
I am still impressed with how well it works, I had done the watts to BTU previous to buying, I knew my gas furnace rated at 30,000 BTU INPUT, was only rated at 23,700 BTU OUTPUT. That is still better than the 17,060 BTU on 5,000 watt setting, so far it does the job of keeping us warm.
One of the nicer features is that heat is almost instant, there is no 15 second purge, the element gets power the same time the fan starts, the only cool air you feel is what is in the duct.
My personal reason,for buying was mainly SAFETY, I am the son of a Firefighter, he disliked winter, too many fires caused by space heaters and from time to time death. Secondary to that is my heater doesn't take up any floor or counter space.

This is important because you don't want to destroy your mh electric by plugging into a 240 volt pug as quite a few have.
We don't have 50 amp 240 volt service. You have two 50 amp legs and a common ground. 100 amps total but on two legs unless you have a Prevost or other with two fifty amp cables and 100 amp service.
Don't hit your mh with 240 Volts. It might burn up but will msot certainly be expensive if the breakers can't handle it.

I do not think this is correct. A RV with 50 Amp service connects via a standard NEMA 14-50R receptacle which is a 240/120V receptacle. It may be (and is in my rig) that there are no 240V breakers or loads connected, but I assure you that if you opened up your distribution panel and checked the voltage between the two phases you will see 240VAC (or 208 probably).

I think where all of the scare about plugging into 240 and frying things came in to play was with 30 amp service when people would plug into welding outlets in their garages which were 240V 30 Amp instead of the intended 120V 30Amp service their RV needed.

[down_home]

rhagfo wrote:

Bill.Satellite wrote:

rhagfo wrote:

Bill.Satellite wrote:
If they are talking about the Cheap Heat system it IS 5000 watts and requires 50 amp service as it does draw somewhere close to 40 amps. Nothing cheap about that if you have to pay the electric bill.

If you don’t know what you are talking about, you should stay out of the discussion!

#1. It DOESN'T require a 50 amp service to operate, on the 1,800 watt setting it works on a 30 amp service, through a 20 amp breaker.

#2. On the 5,000 watt setting, yes a 50 amp 208 volt service is required, but the system runs on a 30 amp 208 volt breaker.

We have a 32’ 5er the we heated to 70 degrees easily with outside temperatures in the low forty’s on the 1,800 watt setting on a 30 amp service used other electrical device without issues.

Currently on a 50 amp service, and the 5,000 watt setting and will heat us down in to the teens.

I am seriously considering the new add on box that auto detects the voltage 120/208 and switches to the correct wattage for the service one is connected to. I can manually change over in about 20 minutes, but having it do it automatically would be nice.

It doesn’t make any difference if use cheap heat or electric space heaters, you are still using electricity so the bill will be the same. My furnace doesn’t run continuously cycles just like using gas.

Thanks for the kind thoughts! Also, thanks for confirming that you are going to need 50 amp service if you plan to use the 5000W option. There is NO 208 V service available with 30 amp service. Don't you hate it when that happens!

Yep, sure do!!:S

I looked in to this closely before deciding to install. Several emails to the developer. Once I realized that the package was one set of components, just wired differently, I decided to buy.
As I have stated I have wiring for both 30 amp 120 volt and 50 amp 240 volt installed, and it takes about 20 minutes of work to switch. RV Comfort Systems now offer an auto switch device for $119, which I am seriously thinking of installing to save the time and effort.
I am still impressed with how well it works, I had done the watts to BTU previous to buying, I knew my gas furnace rated at 30,000 BTU INPUT, was only rated at 23,700 BTU OUTPUT. That is still better than the 17,060 BTU on 5,000 watt setting, so far it does the job of keeping us warm.
One of the nicer features is that heat is almost instant, there is no 15 second purge, the element gets power the same time the fan starts, the only cool air you feel is what is in the duct.
My personal reason,for buying was mainly SAFETY, I am the son of a Firefighter, he disliked winter, too many fires caused by space heaters and from time to time death. Secondary to that is my heater doesn't take up any floor or counter space.

This is important because you don't want to destroy your mh electric by plugging into a 240 volt pug as quite a few have.
We don't have 50 amp 240 volt service. You have two 50 amp legs and a common ground. 100 amps total but on two legs unless you have a Prevost or other with two fifty amp cables and 100 amp service.
Don't hit your mh with 240 Volts. It might burn up but will msot certainly be expensive if the breakers can't handle it.

[shastagary]

when i used my old rv for snowmobiling from in Wisconsin winters i used the plastic film 3m window kits on both the inside and outside of the Leakey windows it made a huge difference. they make a special kit with different tape for the outside of the windows. spent some 20 below nights in it and stayed warm. i just opened the door for some fresh air once in a while.

[Pirate1]

I wanted to put in cheap heat real bad but just didn't have the clearance I needed.

[Acampingwewillg]

While I use small space heater's for our occasional trips into cooler weather(hardly ever use the Webasto diesel heat)...I have considered putting in a coupe Toe kick heaters so that I don't have the space heaters sitting about. I have the venting and power close enough in the area's I might want them...any thought's on? As previously stated, the Toe-kicks are generally rated at 750-1500 watts...so I'm guessing it would be equal to the space heaters.

[pianotuna]

There are some nice things about Cheap Heat. My favorite electric heater is the electric carpets that are carbon fiber based. No more cold floors! And zero wasted space.

[rhagfo]

Bill.Satellite wrote:

rhagfo wrote:

Bill.Satellite wrote:
If they are talking about the Cheap Heat system it IS 5000 watts and requires 50 amp service as it does draw somewhere close to 40 amps. Nothing cheap about that if you have to pay the electric bill.

If you don’t know what you are talking about, you should stay out of the discussion!

#1. It DOESN'T require a 50 amp service to operate, on the 1,800 watt setting it works on a 30 amp service, through a 20 amp breaker.

#2. On the 5,000 watt setting, yes a 50 amp 208 volt service is required, but the system runs on a 30 amp 208 volt breaker.

We have a 32’ 5er the we heated to 70 degrees easily with outside temperatures in the low forty’s on the 1,800 watt setting on a 30 amp service used other electrical device without issues.

Currently on a 50 amp service, and the 5,000 watt setting and will heat us down in to the teens.

I am seriously considering the new add on box that auto detects the voltage 120/208 and switches to the correct wattage for the service one is connected to. I can manually change over in about 20 minutes, but having it do it automatically would be nice.

It doesn’t make any difference if use cheap heat or electric space heaters, you are still using electricity so the bill will be the same. My furnace doesn’t run continuously cycles just like using gas.

Thanks for the kind thoughts! Also, thanks for confirming that you are going to need 50 amp service if you plan to use the 5000W option. There is NO 208 V service available with 30 amp service. Don't you hate it when that happens!

Yep, sure do!!:S

I looked in to this closely before deciding to install. Several emails to the developer. Once I realized that the package was one set of components, just wired differently, I decided to buy.
As I have stated I have wiring for both 30 amp 120 volt and 50 amp 240 volt installed, and it takes about 20 minutes of work to switch. RV Comfort Systems now offer an auto switch device for $119, which I am seriously thinking of installing to save the time and effort.
I am still impressed with how well it works, I had done the watts to BTU previous to buying, I knew my gas furnace rated at 30,000 BTU INPUT, was only rated at 23,700 BTU OUTPUT. That is still better than the 17,060 BTU on 5,000 watt setting, so far it does the job of keeping us warm.
One of the nicer features is that heat is almost instant, there is no 15 second purge, the element gets power the same time the fan starts, the only cool air you feel is what is in the duct.
My personal reason for buying was mainly SAFETY, I am the son of a Firefighter, he disliked winter, too many fires caused by space heaters and from time to time death. Secondary to that is my heater doesn't take up any floor or counter space.

[Bill_Satellite]

rhagfo wrote:

Bill.Satellite wrote:
If they are talking about the Cheap Heat system it IS 5000 watts and requires 50 amp service as it does draw somewhere close to 40 amps. Nothing cheap about that if you have to pay the electric bill.

If you don’t know what you are talking about, you should stay out of the discussion!

#1. It DOESN'T require a 50 amp service to operate, on the 1,800 watt setting it works on a 30 amp service, through a 20 amp breaker.

#2. On the 5,000 watt setting, yes a 50 amp 208 volt service is required, but the system runs on a 30 amp 208 volt breaker.

We have a 32’ 5er the we heated to 70 degrees easly with outside temperatures in the low forty’s on the 1,800 watt setting on a 30 amp service used other electrical device without issues.

Currently on a 50 amp service, and the 5,000 watt setting and will heat us down in to the teens.

I am seriously considering the new add on box that auto detects the voltage 120/208 and switches to the correct wattage for the service one is connected to. I can manually change over in about 20 minutes, but having it do it automatically would be nice.

It doesn’t make any difference if use cheap heat or electric space heaters, you are still using electricity so the bill will be the same. My furnace doesn’t run continuously cycles just like using gas.

Thanks for the kind thoughts! Also, thanks for confirming that you are going to need 50 amp service if you plan to use the 5000W option. There is NO 208 V service available with 30 amp service. Don't you hate it when that happens!

[rhagfo]

pianotuna wrote:
First, try not to be rude.

2nd 1800 watts only yields about 6141 btu's. Not nearly enough to keep warm in serious cold. It is only 1023 btu's better than a 1500 watt heater from Walmart which costs $9.99. Or you could use one 1500 watt and add a 1000 watt heater. That yields 8530 btu's, and leaves enough head room to run the fridge on the electric setting.

3rd the 3750 watt only does 12795 btu's. That's a little better but still not what I'd call wonderful.

4th the 5000 watt only does 17060 btu's. It is unclear to me whether they wire this as a balanced load. Perhaps you could enlighten us?

5th if the voltage sags (and it will), you won't get nearly the same amount of heat.

6th, in order to successfully heat my RV at -27 c (-16.6 f) I require up to 7000 watts of electricity (peak load 23884 btu's). I do use a sola basic autoformer to keep the voltage up on the OEM 30 amp service, and have added 20 amp and 15 amp auxiliary shore power cords which I run from a 50 amp "break out box".

So the Cheap Heat is not terrible useful to anyone who lives where there is serious cold, partly because it may not be run in parallel with the propane furnace. Nor does it fail over to propane heating if the power goes off.

BTW where I live it gets to -40. That means I've added extra insulation, Insulbright covers for all windows, vents, skylights and doors. Other cold weather modifications include adding insulated pillows for vents and skylights. I've also added an Insulbright divider to eliminate heating the cab on my class C.

rhagfo wrote:

If you don’t know what you are talking about, you should stay out of the discussion!

#1. It DOESN'T require a 50 amp service to operate, on the 1,800 watt setting it works on a 30 amp service, through a 20 amp breaker.

#2. On the 5,000 watt setting, yes a 50 amp 208 volt service is required, but the system runs on a 30 amp 208 volt breaker.

We have a 32’ 5er the we heated to 70 degrees easly with outside temperatures in the low forty’s on the 1,800 watt setting on a 30 amp service used other electrical device without issues.

Currently on a 50 amp service, and the 5,000 watt setting and will heat us down in to the teens.

Well I don't like those that state bad information.
While your information, and arguments are factual you situation is an extreme case.

I agree 1,800 watts is not enough to heat in serious cold, but I would not expect that. When on the 5,000 watt setting and 17,060 btu it is still short of the 24,700 btu the furnace will put out on gas.
When heating in the low 40's with 1,800 watt setting the furnace did run longer to raise temperature, but it didn't run continuously.
When on the 5,000 watt setting it doesn't take long to correct the temperature. The OP states they have a Super Slide, which are heat suckers, no insulation on the floor, and minimal insulation in the walls and ceiling. We have one also and we still do fine at 17,060 btu.
The main reason we have it is SAFETY, 5,000 watt is wired with 10 gauge wire and the 1,800 watt is wired with 12 gauge on a 20 amp circuit. This is NOT 14 gauge 15 amp wire for circuity. Look at your $9.99 Wal-Mart heaters, likely has 16 gauge wire.
In addition we have two very mischievous beagles that I don't want to worry about them starting a fire with space heaters. way too many people die due to space heater caused fires each year.

I don't use any more electricity with the furnace, than I would using small space heaters to keep the same temperature. The little heaters need to run continuously or almost. The furnace cycles much like when on gas, T-stat controlled. This means step down at night, and step up in the morning.

I am not sure why the 3,700 watt setting likely for small rigs, with small duct work, as there are air flow and duct size requirements.

Keep in mind your case is extreme, not all of us live in -16 degree weather.

I also like not having the clutter of a bunch of electric space heaters sitting around.

Heck, I am not going to attempt to tow/carry a 17,000# 5er with my 2001 Ram 2500, just not in the cards, BUT it does just fine with the 12,360# GVWR 5er we have.

[pianotuna]

Hi AllegroD,

I successfully solved that issue by replacing the cold air return for the furnace with twin window fans. They draw 27 watts and are controlled by a mechanical thermostat.

AllegroD wrote:
Lot of good ideas here but do not forget that your wet bay is likely NOT going to receive enough heat to keep from freezing your fresh water tank and lines. Your gas furnace does that.

[pianotuna]

First, try not to be rude.

2nd 1800 watts only yields about 6141 btu's. Not nearly enough to keep warm in serious cold. It is only 1023 btu's better than a 1500 watt heater from Walmart which costs $9.99. Or you could use one 1500 watt and add a 1000 watt heater. That yields 8530 btu's, and leaves enough head room to run the fridge on the electric setting.

3rd the 3750 watt only does 12795 btu's. That's a little better but still not what I'd call wonderful.

4th the 5000 watt only does 17060 btu's. It is unclear to me whether they wire this as a balanced load. Perhaps you could enlighten us?

5th if the voltage sags (and it will), you won't get nearly the same amount of heat.

6th, in order to successfully heat my RV at -27 c (-16.6 f) I require up to 7000 watts of electricity (peak load 23884 btu's). I do use a sola basic autoformer to keep the voltage up on the OEM 30 amp service, and have added 20 amp and 15 amp auxiliary shore power cords which I run from a 50 amp "break out box".

So the Cheap Heat is not terrible useful to anyone who lives where there is serious cold, partly because it may not be run in parallel with the propane furnace. Nor does it fail over to propane heating if the power goes off.

BTW where I live it gets to -40. That means I've added extra insulation, Insulbright covers for all windows, vents, skylights and doors. Other cold weather modifications include adding insulated pillows for vents and skylights. I've also added an Insulbright divider to eliminate heating the cab on my class C.

rhagfo wrote:

If you don’t know what you are talking about, you should stay out of the discussion!

#1. It DOESN'T require a 50 amp service to operate, on the 1,800 watt setting it works on a 30 amp service, through a 20 amp breaker.

#2. On the 5,000 watt setting, yes a 50 amp 208 volt service is required, but the system runs on a 30 amp 208 volt breaker.

We have a 32’ 5er the we heated to 70 degrees easly with outside temperatures in the low forty’s on the 1,800 watt setting on a 30 amp service used other electrical device without issues.

Currently on a 50 amp service, and the 5,000 watt setting and will heat us down in to the teens.

[CA_Traveler]

5000W would be nice to have when on 50A. But number clarification: 50A service is 120/240V and 5000W would draw 21A on 240V so a 30A dual breaker would work. And the equivalent amps for 120V would be 42A which is not supported.

The next wattage I saw was over 3600W. What is that used for as it exceeds a 30A service? Below that was about 1800W which would be OK on 30A. And it shouldn't be used on 20A at the recommended sustained draw is 80 percent and electric heaters are in the sustained draw class.

It's a moot point for me as I don't have a propane heater and I do use up to 3 portable ceramic heaters.

208V is for 3 phase service and not available for RVs.

[rhagfo]

Bill.Satellite wrote:
If they are talking about the Cheap Heat system it IS 5000 watts and requires 50 amp service as it does draw somewhere close to 40 amps. Nothing cheap about that if you have to pay the electric bill.

If you don’t know what you are talking about, you should stay out of the discussion!

#1. It DOESN'T require a 50 amp service to operate, on the 1,800 watt setting it works on a 30 amp service, through a 20 amp breaker.

#2. On the 5,000 watt setting, yes a 50 amp 208 volt service is required, but the system runs on a 30 amp 208 volt breaker.

We have a 32’ 5er the we heated to 70 degrees easly with outside temperatures in the low forty’s on the 1,800 watt setting on a 30 amp service used other electrical device without issues.

Currently on a 50 amp service, and the 5,000 watt setting and will heat us down in to the teens.

I am seriously considering the new add on box that auto detects the voltage 120/208 and switches to the correct wattage for the service one is connected to. I can manually change over in about 20 minutes, but having it do it automatically would be nice.

It doesn’t make any difference if use cheap heat or electric space heaters, you are still using electricity so the bill will be the same. My furnace doesn’t run continuously cycles just like using gas.

[Pirate1]

AllegroD wrote:
Lot of good ideas here but do not forget that your wet bay is likely NOT going to receive enough heat to keep from freezing your fresh water tank and lines. Your gas furnace does that.

I use small 100watt heaters plugged into thermo cubes to keep the wet bays from freezing.

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