House Batteries not working?

lthrneck689 wrote:
Relatively new to RV'ng, and still getting to know how everything fits together. The way I understand it, I should be able to walk into my RV, and even though I'm not on shore power, and the gen set is not running, I should be able to flick on the lights, or turn on the fans. Well, that doesn't happen. If I plug in, or turn on the Genset, everything works. I thought maybe my batteries were bad, so now I have two brand new deep cycle batteries, and the only thing that works is the step at the door when I open and close the door. Could my converter be bad? Doesn't the converter convert AC to DC? I'm pretty sure it all worked ok when I first bought the rig, but I've never completely boon docked before. Nay help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Rick

Not sure what type of RV you have, but I going to say a CLASS C. You should have two Batteries One 12V HOUSE and another 12V Vehicle. And somewhere a shout off. When just one of the Batteries drops below 10-AMPS more than two times you will need to replace the Battery as it will never return to a full charge. Now you should look for a red SHOUT OFF which kills everything in the HOUSE, the Step work only off the Vehicle Battery. Because with the HOUSE off you can still drive and operate the vehicle part f the Motorhome. Now if you turn the red shout off to ON everything on the house side should come on. Now you can PLUG into shore POWER as this will charge the batteries as well as work the HOUSE. TRUST ME THIS IS BASIC 101. You need an AMP metter to piratically check batteries.

D.E.Bishop wrote:

I also found that LPI who owns the Kwikee name has produced and placed on their website, the manuals for Kwikee steps. There is a manual for, Kwikee #890 Electric Step, Owner's Manual (Winnebago).

There was absolutely nothing in there about Winnebago's practice of wiring the steps in their own way. The text and illustrations all show the motor circuit connected to the House Battery(ies). I also noticed the CYA statement about warranty and injury is gone from the preamble and only the injury warning is used in mid-text.

Although the Kwikee manual shows the wiring to a 12v battery, there is nothing specifically stating that it is the house battery rather than the chassis battery other than showing a battery disconnect switch, but many coaches have switches for both house and chassis battery.

My 2004 Itasca (Winnebago) has the steps wired to the chassis battery. That makes sense for a couple of reasons; first, it eliminates the possibility of driving off with the steps extended, just as CharlesinGA said. Second, from a safety standpoint you cannot "fall" out of the MH if you have turned your house batteries off; opening the door WILL extend the steps. That seems to fall more in line with a CYA type of installation.

Now, the odd thing is that my Winnebago wiring diagram shows the steps wired to the house battery, but I believe that is a mistake on Winnebago's wiring diagram. Here's why:
There are 2 bus bars, one from the house battery and one from the chassis battery. The house bus bar is shown powering the steps and the chassis panel, while the chassis bus bar is shown powering the house breaker panel(s). In reality, those are (logically) reversed; the house bus bar powers the house breaker panel(s) and the chassis bus bar powers the chassis breaker panel and the steps.

Thanks for the reporting back about the repair.

It was a simple fix - and boy do I feel dumb! Took it to my RV mech, and he fixed it immediately. I didn't know that there was a circuit breaker inside the box located about 6 feet from the batteries. Yup, it was tripped. Probably did it when I replaced the old batteries. Thanks to everyone for their help!

To MDKMDK and CharlesinGA, you are correct and your steps have two connections to the chassis battery, the motor circuit which should in Winnebago's have a 25 amp circuit breaker and the ignition on circuit which is protected by a 6 amp circuit breaker.

In trying to follow Winnie's schematics, I got a little off track and believed that the step manufacture's installation instructions would be followed due to CYA statements in the manufacturer's instructions. They are the typical "failure to follow these instructions, may void your warranty and could cause possible harm or even death" statements. Obviously Winnebago did it their way.

I did verify the wiring as I had to replace the Battery Mode Switch yesterday and in addition to photos of the wiring before I disconnected anything I sat there and physically traced all the wires involved by touch. I did cross reference to your particular RVs and found all of the schematics for the models I looked were wired with the motor and ignition on circuits are not only the same in their routing, they also use the same coding to identify those circuits. I only checked a span of fourteen years but identifiers were the same across that range.

I also found that LPI who owns the Kwikee name has produced and placed on their website, the manuals for Kwikee steps. There is a manual for, Kwikee #890 Electric Step, Owner's Manual (Winnebago).

There was absolutely nothing in there about Winnebago's practice of wiring the steps in their own way. The text and illustrations all show the motor circuit connected to the House Battery(ies). I also noticed the CYA statement about warranty and injury is gone from the preamble and only the injury warning is used in mid-text.

There is logic behind having the steps powered by the Chassis/engine battery. Set up this way, if you have a battery that is capable of cranking you up so you can drive off, it also is capable of retracting the steps.

If the Coach/house batteries powered the step, you could have dead coach batteries and crank up the engine, yet the steps would not retract due to dead coach batteries.

My Winnebago View has the steps powered off the chassis/engine battery and I think all or virtually all Winnebagos are wired this way. Many other brands are also.

I also listen for the steps at engine start, and then lean over and look out the RH mirror and note that they are not sticking out.

Charles

D.E.Bishop wrote:

MDKMDK wrote:
When you post up a question about your rig, it's a good idea to post the year/make/model as well. Helps the troubleshooters.

In most class C/A motorhomes, the power step runs off the chassis battery.
Also, in most motorhomes, the shore power and generator will "light up" the coach without the batteries, so that's why it works when either of those two conditions are met.
Try this. There's a switch to enable/disable your coach batteries, sometimes located just inside the side entry door beside the inside step well. Check to see if that's in the "enabled" position. There may be a little green light on when it's in the enabled position.
Have a look, and post up your results.

MDKMDK's reply is very good except for the part about the chassis battery running the steps in "most" C/A's. If wired correctly, that is not true. Winnebago wires them according to the diagram in Kwikee Manual #888, so did Fleetwood.

The fact that the OP installed new batteries and the steps are now working indicates both dead batteries and that perhaps the steps are not wired correctly. It could also mean that someone modified the wiring.

To answers one of the OP's questions, yes the converter converts AC power to DC power but if you are on battery power the converter is not in the equation at all. As long as you have new batteries, either look up the owners manual and check for a battery disconnect switch. Odds are that if you post the Brand, Model and year of your rig, someone here will have the same rig and can answer your question.

Good luck.

My class A 2016 Sunstar (Winnebago) 26HE steps ran off the chassis battery, and that's the way it was wired at the factory. It's even described as such in the manual. Section 6-6 Electrical - see the section that starts - Chassis Battery....

From the 2016 Sunstar 26HE Owner's Manual......

""ELECTRICAL SYSTEM –
HOUSE 12-VOLT DC
The DC voltage system consists of the chassis
battery, the 12-volt house batteries, and the 12-
volt power converter.
Converter
See “Power Center.”
Chassis Battery
The chassis battery is used to operate the
engine starter and automotive accessories and
controls found on the instrument panel. The
electric step is also connected to the chassis
battery.
See your chassis manual for further
information on chassis batteries and chassis
electrical system.
House Batteries
House batteries are “deep-cycle” type
batteries specially designed for recreational
vehicle use. They will provide longer lasting
power than standard automotive starting batteries
and will withstand the frequent drain-andrecharge
cycles that occur under the demanding
conditions of a camping outing.
The house batteries supply power to 12-volt
equipment located in the living area of the
motorhome. This includes the following 12-volt
powered components (if equipped): interior 12-
volt lighting, range exhaust fan, propane furnace
fan, fresh water pump, systems monitor panel,
refrigerator, roof vent fans, slideout room
systems, and 120-volt electrical generator starter.
The house batteries can also provide
emergency power to start the engine if the chassis
battery is discharged. (See “Battery Boost
Switch” in Section 3 - Driving Your Motorhome).
House batteries are automatically charged by
the chassis alternator while the engine is running.
HOUSE/COACH BATTERY
DISCONNECT SWITCH
(COACH BATT)
The House/Coach Battery Disconnect switch
lets you disconnect the house batteries from the
12-volt system of your coach during storage
periods to avoid battery drain by electrical items
that are hooked directly to the house batteries,
such as clock displays and radio memories, etc.
Always leave this switch connected while
using the coach.""

I would also point out that Winnebago refers to "House" and "Coach" batteries in the last paragraph in the same sense, in other words that they are synonymous. The "Chassis" battery is the one that comes with the chassis (go figure?), from Ford, GM, Mercedes Benz etc..
That's how I've always referred to them, too. My house/coach batteries run the RV systems and the chassis battery starts the engine, and anything else the manufacturer chooses to run off of it. I suspect they do it that way to engage the automatic step retraction safety system, should you start your engine and put the vehicle in drive or reverse without first retracting your entry steps.

EDIT: I admit I generalized when I said "most" C/A power entry steps run off the chassis battery. I made an assumption based on personal experience, and at that point the OP hadn't revealed his year/make/model, so I generalized. My bad.

If I am in error I apologize, I should learn to never say never or always. I also assumed that the steps are Kwikee, there are others and I am not familiar with any of them.

I still say that the correct way for the step power to be wired is to the house battery. You must also note that I left out the control circuit that is connected to the chassis battery and is intended to signal the controller that the ignition is on and thereby tell the steps to retract.

In my rig the steps will not operate when the disconnect is in the off position. With the disconnect switch in the off position, there isn't any battery power going to the motor circuit in the controller unit. There is however power going to the control unit to close the steps when the ignition is on or in the start position.

My Bounder was wired that way too.

You see the chassis and the house batteries are both involved with operating the steps.

The motor circuit is fused for 20 amps and the control circuit is fused for 5 amps.

The drawing is located in figure 10 on page 10 and part of the Trouble Shooting section of Manual #888.

We have a red key that connects (on) and disconnects (off) the house battery. The power to the electric step is controlled by a switch, but the house battery does have to connected. House lights are the same way, they have their own switch, but the battery has to be connected.

ron.dittmer wrote:
In my rig, there are huge in-line fuses right by the house batteries. Maybe your rig has the same and they have burned up.

You can see the two fuses screwed to the back wall of the house battery compartment, attached to two red cables going to the house. One red cable is hard to see, hidden behind the other one. There is a third black device attached to one of the two red cables, not sure what it is.

The black item is a circuit breaker. A little arm pops when it trips. Pushing it
back toward center resets it.

In my rig, there are huge in-line fuses right by the house batteries. Maybe your rig has the same and they have burned up.

You can see the two fuses screwed to the back wall of the house battery compartment, attached to two red cables going to the house. One red cable is hard to see, hidden behind the other one. There is a third black device attached to one of the two red cables, not sure what it is.