How close is too close

[Gjac]

Someone posted awhile back about brake lines being too close to the exhaust manifolds causing the fluid too boil on long grades and loss of brakes so I went under mine and looked and found mine were about 1 1/2 ins away from my headers. I also noticed that two lines from the trans to the cooler were only 1/2 in away from the header. I wrapped the brake line with FG cloth because it was easy to do. The trans line would be much more difficult. So my question to those that have added headers to a 454 TBI(Thorley) have you run into this issue and have rerouted the trans lines or is 1/2 in clearance enough not to heat up the lines?

[Gjac]

RLS7201 wrote:

Gjac wrote:

RLS7201 wrote:
It is a shame that Thorley & Gibson don't address those issues. Yes it is important that you relocate and insulate to protect those items. Banks does address those very issues with their exhaust enhancement items.
You may also want to consider a heat shield for your starter.

Richard

How did Banks address these issues? By supplying heat shields or by re routing trans and brake lines?

Sorry about the later response. Been a little busy.
In my case (95 F53 460) Banks supplied a heat shield for the left frame rail to protect fuel and brake lines, emergency brake, shift cables and wiring. Banks also supplied insulation for the cables where they left the frame. A heat shield was also supplied for the starter.
I spent considerable more for Banks , but the system has been trouble free for over 8 years.

Richard

Thanks for the update Richard. I haven't had any problem with my brakes yet but add a heat shield on the LH side for MC and brake lines . I was more concerned about the transmission lines on the RH side and insulated them with FG. Sounds like Banks did not see a need to insulate or shield the trans lines?

[RLS7201]

Gjac wrote:

RLS7201 wrote:
It is a shame that Thorley & Gibson don't address those issues. Yes it is important that you relocate and insulate to protect those items. Banks does address those very issues with their exhaust enhancement items.
You may also want to consider a heat shield for your starter.

Richard

How did Banks address these issues? By supplying heat shields or by re routing trans and brake lines?

Sorry about the later response. Been a little busy.
In my case (95 F53 460) Banks supplied a heat shield for the left frame rail to protect fuel and brake lines, emergency brake, shift cables and wiring. Banks also supplied insulation for the cables where they left the frame. A heat shield was also supplied for the starter.
I spent considerable more for Banks , but the system has been trouble free for over 8 years.

Richard

[Gjac]

sch911 wrote:
This is a good reason to not install headers at all. Never felt the need to "upgrade" perfectly good components which were tested and certified by the manufacturer. Including their fully tested underhood and underbody thermal protection abilities....

The "perfectly good" OEM exhaust manifolds leaked and cracked twice before I replace them with the headers, which ran much cooler with fewer downshifts on hills and about 80 more HP or so. That is one mod that I feel was better than the OEM design and glad I made.

[Daveinet]

The routing of lines may very or even be modified by the coach manufacturer, so it is impossible to predict what shielding is necessary. Thorley sold me a shield when I put my headers on.

BTW: the reason to install headers over "perfectly good" OEM design is because the OEM design runs too hot and puts excessive stress on the engine. A properly designed header and exhaust will allow the engine to run substantially cooler than OEM.

[sch911]

This is a good reason to not install headers at all. Never felt the need to "upgrade" perfectly good components which were tested and certified by the manufacturer. Including their fully tested underhood and underbody thermal protection abilities....

[jfkmk]

Be careful about wrapping the lines with anything that will hold moisture on them. You don't want them to corrode.

[Gjac]

RLS7201 wrote:
It is a shame that Thorley & Gibson don't address those issues. Yes it is important that you relocate and insulate to protect those items. Banks does address those very issues with their exhaust enhancement items.
You may also want to consider a heat shield for your starter.

Richard

How did Banks address these issues? By supplying heat shields or by re routing trans and brake lines?

[Gjac]

rgatijnet1 wrote:
Why continue to worry about it? Rerouting your brake lines is not that difficult. It is something you can do yourself if you are at all handy. Check the size of your brake lines and you can buy just the steel tubing at any NAPA store, along with the couplers. Then you need to buy a DOUBLE flaring tool, which can run from about $20 on up, depending if it is made in China or in a decent country. DO NOT use a standard plumbing single flaring tool.
Once you use a tubing cutter to cut the brake lines, then you can add additional tubing to route the brake lines away from any heat source. Once you have everything rerouted and securely fastened, you will need to bleed your brakes and enjoy a permanent solution to your problem.
Naturally any competent garage can do the same thing if you do not want to do the work.

Its not the brake lines I already wrapped those with FG its the transmission lines that run along the frame inside of the heat shield on the passenger side these would be much harder to wrap or add a heat shield. It just looks like if the eng designers put it on the other side of the existing heat shield it would be a better design. Having said that I am not smart enough to know how close is too close? Is 1/2 inch clearance enough? The header tubes drop about 3-4 ins lower than the std exhaust manifolds. I have read a lot of posts about adding headers but have not read any where folks had to re rout the transmission lines. If someone had not posted about the brake lines on a P-30 chassis being close I would have never thought to look.

[RLS7201]

It is a shame that Thorley & Gibson don't address those issues. Yes it is important that you relocate and insulate to protect those items. Banks does address those very issues with their exhaust enhancement items.
You may also want to consider a heat shield for your starter.

Richard

[C-Leigh_Racing]

How about that aluminum like heat shielding material like used in race car floor boards.
Neil

[rgatijnet1]

Why continue to worry about it? Rerouting your brake lines is not that difficult. It is something you can do yourself if you are at all handy. Check the size of your brake lines and you can buy just the steel tubing at any NAPA store, along with the couplers. Then you need to buy a DOUBLE flaring tool, which can run from about $20 on up, depending if it is made in China or in a decent country. DO NOT use a standard plumbing single flaring tool.
Once you use a tubing cutter to cut the brake lines, then you can add additional tubing to route the brake lines away from any heat source. Once you have everything rerouted and securely fastened, you will need to bleed your brakes and enjoy a permanent solution to your problem.
Naturally any competent garage can do the same thing if you do not want to do the work.

[Daveinet]

I've always had mixed feelings about the concept of wrapping things to protect from heat, especially in the case where the fluid is not moving. A wrap will only slow the transfer of heat, not dissipate it. OK, so it buys you time on a long grade, but how much time do you need. I would much rather see a heat shield. If the shield is big enough, areas of the shield will be away from the header and be able to dissipate the heat away. I would try to pick up some aluminum sheeting, as it is easy to bend and has good heat transfer characteristics. Its also less likely to rust.

[MountainAir05]

Put a wrap of tape and if it burns then it getting hot. Along with what Wolfe stated. If you don't have headers then you should be ok but the tape will tell you.

[wolfe10]

Yes, the boiling point of FRESH brake fluid is over 400 degrees F.

But, as it absorbs moisture, the boiling point lowers to 286 degrees F (read the fine print on your can of brake fluid).

So absolutely, flush brake fluid every 2-3 years. More often in humid/wet climates.

And, wrapping the lines/insulating them might be a viable option to rerouting them.