Isn't High Mileage Still a Problem on DP's

[StuartT]

I have always heard that 100,000/+ miles is just breaking in a diesel MH. Lack of use, indicated by low mileage, is a bad thing. NADA doesn't even want you to include mileage in looking up values.

But high mileage also means more wear on other components, like transmissions, rear ends, brakes, suspension, etc. And it also implies more use of the interior and systems, all contributing to additional wear and tear.

So let me ask you, assuming you care about resale value to future buyers, which would you prefer to be able to offer, low or high mileage. And if the answer is low mileage, does that mean we have been blowing smoke all these years that higher mileage is no big deal just to make ourselves feel better about it?

[cwdavis]

It's worth pointing out that all recent vintage RVs are declining assets, and the newer they are the more money you loose down the black hole of depreciation. Better, IMO, to buy an older DP in good condition and to keep it, well maintained.

[Ivylog]

Run from the F550 as many engine problems/fixes require taking the cab off the F550 which is kind of hard to do with the rv over the cab. I have a Freightliner M2/MB/Allison truck and it's a really sweet machine. Buy more RV than you think you need so you will keep it long enough that you do not have to worry about what it's worth in 15-20 years. Unlike used DP's, there are not that many used Super C. Their supply/demand is very different and the higher miles will not have as large a negative impact plus it's not on a F550.
Not that it applies 100%, but used CruiseAmerica Cs loose 10cents/mile in value based on the many units they have for sale... a few with 70K miles, but most with 130K.

[westernrvparkow]

StuartT wrote:
The reason I ask this question is I was about to buy a 2007 Dynamax Isata on a F550 diesel chassis (I know its not a DP, but my question was generic) with 20,000 miles. The price was agreed at $5K over NADA low retail.

Then (at the 11th hour) I come across a 2008 Dynamax DynaQuest (same floor plan, more expensive model, but with 94,000 miles) and we negotiate a price of $7 below NADA low retail. The DynaQuest is on a Freightliner chassis with a Mercedes engine. The price to value is much better on the DynaQuest, but is it enough to offset the selling resistance I might face at resale time? That is what I am struggling with.

PS. rgatijnet1, just read your post and it is right on target. Thanks.

You just answered your own question, the mileage is effecting the price. Since you posted this in the Class A forum, you probably should be aware that NADA retail anything is WAY TOO HIGH for most all Diesel Pusher motorhomes. If someone were to offer me NADA low retail for my well maintained, low mileage coach, they would be an owner and I would be happy to send them a $20,000 Christmas gift to boot, especially if they calculated that value with book listed adds. This may not be true of Super C rigs, but I highly doubt it.

[Mr_Mark1]

StuartT wrote:
Let's not get off track between DP's and Super C's. The question I posed applies to most any diesel motorhome and is therefore generic. The effects of high or low mileage is relatively constant in this example, and while there are going to be some differences in values, overall the same principles will apply across classes.

I think you pretty much have your answer from all the previous posts.... it's all about maintenance, records and a visual check. So, in some cases a high mileage extremely well taken care of coach may not take a big hit just for mileage alone. You have to look at the whole picture.

MM.

[steveownby]

StuartT wrote:

Born To Travel wrote:
It all has to do with maintenance.. A well maintained vehicle can last for hundreds of thousands of miles.. A poorly maintained vehicle has a short life span.. Keep your maintenance up to date and it should serve you well..

You missed the point of my question. I am really asking if you would buy a high mileage DP without fear of resale consequences.

Certainly I would, because any "high Milage penalty" has already been factored into my purchase price.

[StuartT]

Let's not get off track between DP's and Super C's. The question I posed applies to most any diesel motorhome and is therefore generic. The effects of high or low mileage is relatively constant in this example, and while there are going to be some differences in values, overall the same principles will apply across classes.

[deandec]

Condition on the low mileage DP is the key in my mind.

Some low mileage rigs could have been Concrete Queens in the prior life.

The mechanical system had low use and possibly inadequate maintenance, and the interior high use.

However, 50,000 miles difference in two Diesel rigs would have me looking hard at the lower mileage unit as my next rig.

[wny_pat1]

tiffinboy wrote:

sounds like the 2007 was overpriced to begin with but this is Class A site and I have no idea what super C are like to buy or sell sounds like both have weird engines? Only saw one MB engine in a alpha and don't know what a dynamax is. For my previous answer it will not have any comparison now as I see now your not talking Diesel pushers and that's a whole different league
BUT I always look at resale value when buying anything.I say if for some reason I have to sell this next week whats it worth and go from there.

Weird engines??? Nothing weird about a Mercedes diesel engine!! You will even find them in Freightliners. And not unusual when you consider that Freightliner is owned by Daimler Trucks North America, a subsidiary of the German Daimler AG. And Dynamax is a respected RV builder.

As to resale value of RVs, the original owner always takes the biggest hit in depreciation. RV, even a Prévost, are not investments. All one has to do is take a look at the showroom new, pre-owned, 2014 American Coach Heritage at Foretravel of Texas. It still has the new furniture tags on the Love Seats!!! Only 3400 miles on the odometer.
Somebody sure wasn't thinking when they got their wallet out.

[Shot-N-Az]

I might buy a DP with 250K+ on it if maintenance was properly documented. For that matter, the same goes for a Ford Taurus I might be interested in.

A Prevost with 100K miles and no maintenance records...I would require a substantial discount on that.

Nothing lasts forever. Everything breaks. Complete maintenance records allows one to properly evaluate risk.

I should add I do not look at resale value when buying. I buy to enjoy while it's mine.

[StuartT]

The reason I ask this question is I was about to buy a 2007 Dynamax Isata on a F550 diesel chassis (I know its not a DP, but my question was generic) with 20,000 miles. The price was agreed at $5K over NADA low retail.

Then (at the 11th hour) I come across a 2008 Dynamax DynaQuest (same floor plan, more expensive model, but with 94,000 miles) and we negotiate a price of $7 below NADA low retail. The DynaQuest is on a Freightliner chassis with a Mercedes engine. The price to value is much better on the DynaQuest, but is it enough to offset the selling resistance I might face at resale time? That is what I am struggling with.

PS. rgatijnet1, just read your post and it is right on target. Thanks.

[westernrvparkow]

Mileage is just one factor most people will take into consideration when buying a used Diesel Pusher RV. Most people will be a little less concerned with relatively minor differences in mileage (say they were looking at a rig with 60K and another with 80K) so they wouldn't expect a huge discount on the 80K), but they would expect the 80K rig to be somewhat less than the 60K assuming they were otherwise exactly equal, which will never be the case.
You do have to take mileage into consideration. But remember, a very low mileage rig might be low mileage for a reason. It could be a full time residence for someone, and all the interior dodads have much more wear and tear than average and maybe it hadn't moved in 5 years and one side is more weathered than the other. Also, never driving a rig isn't good for it either.
In my opinion, at the end it comes down to the overall value. I surely would rather have a better rig with a higher mileage than a substandard rig that hasn't been driven. But you cannot view any one attribute in a vacuum, you need to evaluate the entire package.

[rgatijnet1]

StuartT wrote:

rgatijnet1 wrote:
Some COACHES and CHASSIS are built for 1,000,000 miles of use, like the Prevost chassis motor homes. These are the very expensive RV's used by NASCAR teams, Hollywood celebrities, corporations, and anyone else that has the means to afford them. Many of these are listed for sale as used high end coaches, with hundreds of thousands of miles, and they are still going strong, and still fetch some pretty big bucks. These are built on the same chassis as the coast to coast Trailways and Greyhound buses.
Most other diesel coaches fall in the other category and they are NOT designed for a million miles but they can do several hundred thousand miles with proper maintenance. As you read on this forum, diesel engines do break down and DP chassis and suspension items do break.
The facts are that if you do proper maintenance on ANY coach, and replace everything that breaks or wears out, there is no mileage limit. The limit is reached when it is no longer financially feasible or practical to continue to dump money in to a coach that is worn out. That does not mean that an old coach cannot continue to be used, but at a certain point in time, the coach is worth less at resale than the cost needed to keep it running.

Great observations and a well thought out response. In our range of DP's, you point out the absolute need for maintenance, and this is definitely a fact. But would you be afraid to buy a high mileage DP in the first place, given you will face the resale market down the road.

A lot depends on maintenance records and coach features/systems. A low mileage DP could have a coach that is worn out from use by a full time owner, that only traveled from North to South twice a year. In other words, the house will have 365 days worth of use each year but the engine may only have a few weeks of use, and a few thousand miles. This type of coach has spent most of it's life sitting in an RV park and I would pass, unless it was very cheap. Many new buyers love these and will buy them based ONLY on the mileage.
Now you have the coach that is used by people that like to travel a lot, but also still have a stick house. I fall into this category. We usually put close to 20,000 miles per year on our coach but only spend about 6 months on the road each year. Our coach will have high mileage when sold, but it will also have been maintained regularly and systems updated as needed. I expect it will sell below NADA value based on mileage.
There are also the full time coaches that are lived in 365 and are driven 10,000-20,000 miles per year. these are usually meticulously maintained, by virtue of the fact that they are used and driven. I would not hesitate to buy this type of coach, as long as the maintenance records are available.
Unfortunately a lot of people look at the mileage and do not have the slightest idea what maintenance records can tell them. They will be willing to pay more for a low mileage vehicle, and will probably have future problems. Rodents and other critters love low mileage RV's that sit most of the time.
Any vehicle used on a regular basis, and maintained properly, should be worth more and sell easier to a knowledgeable buyer. Finding that buyer is the key.

[Ivylog]

"So why do we keep hearing about this "hardly broken in?" Guess there's a little bit of used car salesman in most of us.:B

[Mr_Mark1]

StuartT, we have been so geared to think lower mileage is better because 99% of us have bought gasoline cars. 'Low mileage', 'cream puff', 'only driven on Sundays'.... etc.

Our coach will be a good example of what you bring up. We currently have almost 65,000 miles on our '08. You can find '08 coaches all day long with 30,000 miles or less. I really do 'over' maintain our coach and have everything fixed as needed (I keep all receipts).

Our coach looks like new on the inside as we take care of our things. We're thinking about ordering a new coach and I also wonder what difference the mileage will do to the asking price. We'll probably have closer to 70,000-75,000 miles if and when the new coach gets ordered and built. It will take 6-9 months to build the new one so that will put us at the end of next summer if we order soon.

We purposely bought a color palate that I think is attractive to most buyers. If you put two similar coaches side by side and one has 30,000 miles less than the other, I honestly think it will affect the price even though NADA says if it's a diesel, don't worry about the mileage. I couldn't help but think that way myself.

But, I think the condition of the interior will also be a major factor. If the coach is lived-in full time and has 15,000 miles vs. ours as I described, ours may be more desirable because of the interior condition. Our stove top has only been used once or twice in 6.5 yrs. I keep the coach (interior and exterior) clean and oil the wood cabinets at least once a year. The only thing that is showing some wear are the sink drain stoppers (dark copper metal color) and the bathroom door knob (has scratches on it). Other than that, it looks barely used.

MM.

[StuartT]

Ivylog wrote:
A lot has to do with the person buying and their experience level. I bought a hard to find crew cab FL 70 with high miles because it was fleet maintained and the engine was at a lower HP than most. Now that I'm trying to sell... most are afraid of the higher miles. I would take a 10 year old DP with 90K miles over one with only 20K assuming the low miles was because it sat a lot. Now if the 20K was used to tailgate close by most of the year, it could be a great find.
OP, yes most buyers will shy away from a high mileage RV because there are plenty with fewer miles for sale. Supply and demand trumps everything and there are plenty of mid mile DPs for sale... 5K/year.

You nailed my question. So why do we keep hearing about this "hardly broken in"? Sounds like its okay to buy them but don't try to sell?