Power converter putting out too low of voltage

[Andonso]

I have a Class-C in a RV Park that pretty much stays in one spot for the last 10 years.

I replaced it's Parallax 35 amp power converter with a Progressive Dynamics 9280 which was sort of an overkill for a 23 foot RV.

I noticed when my Norcold refrig started to produce a Lo_Dc error futher testing showed dc voltage to be approx. 9.5.

Disconnecting the 3 house batteries it appears the 9280 stopped putting out 12 VDC. I'll further test sometime tommorrow but it appears the power converter is gone unless there's an internal fuse somewhere. The three external green 30 amp fuses appear to be ok.

I'm thinking it may be better to look for a new power converter rather than trying to have the 9280 repaired?

I probably don't need 80 amps as I only have 3 batteries which I really don't need as the RV rarely travels anymore and is lived in year around with utilities.

However the RV Norcold Refrigerator which I'm thinking of replacing with an electric does require 12 VDC and then there is the interior 12 volt lighting. I don't use it gas furnace anymore so I don't think 12 volts is really required other than for the refrigerator and lighting.


I've been looking around at new power converters but am not that familiar with their differences and quality.

So far have looked at Progressive Dynamics 45 - 60 amps, WFCO Ultra III 9800 45 amp, (WFCO replacement) WF-9835 - PowerMax 35 AMP, Powermax Pm3-45, Progressive Dynamics PD4560CSV 4500 series 60 amp,

and others.

I'm interested in this one from WFCO to replace my entire AC/DC control panel and board of which the 9280 was installed with very little room underneath. So I'm thinking with perhaps some modifications I can replace my entire existing AC/DC panel and the 9280 with this WFCO.

WFCO 55 amp RV power converter WF-8955PEC


I'm uncertain of the quality of some of the brands such as Powermax, WFCO, etc. when compared to Progressive Dynamics.


Should I stay with Progressive Dynamics?

[Andonso]

Looking around I see Powermax RV chargers from ~$100.00 to ~$120.00 from 35 to 65 amps.

However there are two different types of chargers.

A PM3-12V Series, 3 stage charger and a PM4 (4 stage) replacement charger where it's missing part of the enclosure.

PM4 4 stage charger

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/lOsAAOSwKQBZlUu2/s-l1600.jpg

The PM4 pics above is a 55 amp verion for $120.00 (free shipping)

I'm wondering if it would be possible to install the PM4 inside some sort of homemade wooden box made from plywood? I have a small cupboard under my closet next to the 6300 magnatex dist panel.

There are also some enclosed PM4's 55 and 60 amp for another $20.00 - $25.00 with shipping. There's a used PM4 75 amp for around $100.00 with shipping.

I'm uncertain if I actually need more than 35 - 45 amps unless I need to run the generator? I remember reading something about battery chargers when using a geny. Something about chargers with higher and more efficient charging rates saves on gas and time when using a geny?

[time2roll]

The 10 amp TrueCharge should work fine even long term. That is an excellent battery charger. Running warm to properly bring 3 batteries back up is perfectly normal. s/b cool by morning. Although I understand the fan may run continuous so if it bugs you then you will be back looking for a converter in a few days.

[Andonso]

I think I'll let go with the one Truecharge until I get a another 25+ amp charger.

As I have the other Trucharge wired into my jeep to charge it's main AGM battery and another Group 31 I stick into the Jeep for off-road use. I use a 200+ amp isolator to bring the aux. battery online when travling and/or off-road.

I tried using a laptop and a few other electronics with one main starting battery but it just didn't work unless the engine was running most of the time. The aux. electronics kept draining the starter battery.

So when I'm at home I plug in the other Truecharge designed for two batteries into the jeep, where I've installed aux dc breaker panels.

Trying to mix auxiliary electronics with OEM isn't imo a great idea especially with newer vehicles that use computers, sensors, low voltage wiring connected to sophisticated electronics. many of the aftermarket electronics for vehicles have instructions for people to start splicing and tapping into the OEM wiring which potentially may work, however down the road mixing aux. with oem often causes problems. Which can potentially cause problems with sensitive electronics. Most modern vehicles rely on 5 VDC and millivolt data wiring. Where corrosion and grounds becomes a problem as a vehicle ages.

With road vehicles what I normally do is separate the aux. wiring from the OEM using separate cables and fuse panels.

[BFL13]

Andonso wrote:
I'm still looking around. I've noticed none of the sellers have any information about charging rates.

I've looked on some of the manufacture's sites but they too seem to be keeping charging rates and other details a secret.

EDIT--chargers do get warm and need lots of cooling air. Watch out for a loose connection to the battery post, which will get hot if loose. Put both Truecharges on the job and they will each do half the work.
-----

The battery makers do give charging specifications for voltages. Eg Trojan wants 14.8v for charging and 13.5 for Float (which is like sitting on shore power) some want 14.4 for charging, it varies.

The amps going in only matter for the time you have. Except you can use too high an amps for the size of the battery. Usual idea is 25 % charging rate, so use 25 amps on a 100AH and so in as a rough guide.

But you can use fewer amps with the proper voltage. It just takes longer -more hours (Amp- Hours)

[Andonso]

I'm still looking around. I've noticed none of the sellers have any information about charging rates.

The two batteries (previously three batteries) are wired as one large 12 volt battery

RV charger Pos+ ==== Pos+ (battery 1) ===== Pos+ (battery 2)
RV Charger Neg- ==== Neg- (battery 1) ===== Neg- (battery 2)

Using 1/0 cable. I also installed a 4 way isolator switch that brings in the solar.

The Xantrex Truecharge 10 amp seems to be running a little hot. Using a laser thermometer temperatures measure from ~99 to ~120 deg. F.

Perhaps should disconnected from the two RV batteries? I don't think it will hurt the RV batteries if disconnected from a charger until I can find another charger/converter?

[BFL13]

EDIT: Your Truecharge 10 amper can be your "converter" while on shore power if you stay on battery for your 12v. You might draw more than 10 amps at a time for a while, but then only draw 5 amps for a while. Meanwhile, the 10 amper is cranking away continuously. As long as it can "catch up" and stay ahead over time, the batteries will be recharged and you stay good.

You can use both 10 ampers at once (in parallel) on the battery bank and that will give you 20 amps.

Both 12v batteries should be in parallel and the charger(s)/loads should go on the pos post of one and the neg post of the other so you are using them as one big 12v battery.
-----------
Many (all?) deck mount converters have a "120v" glass fuse inside on the circuit board where the 120v cord is attached inside. If that fuse is ok, there is not much that a non-tech can do to get 12v out.

You can drill out the rivets and replace with screws for getting the converter's cover off.

On battery charging, it is not the amps so much as the voltage over time. You can use 10 amps for longer than 20 amps. You are replacing amp-hours.

What counts is voltage to get the batteries to "gas". That is usually around 14.4v, so 13.8 forever won't do it. The Truecharge ISTR goes to 14.2 which might be enough. The thing is that it takes so much time, but on shore power you don't care; it is when on generator you care about time. Then you want more amps in the AH.

Can Tire has all sorts of those metal vented covers of various sizes. You don't need the "right" size, just a bigger one than the hole. Don't understand the problem there.

The 8300 is actually like their 4400 and is better, but no big deal. Don't bother. ( I had a 4455TC for a time, but it fried)

IMO, probably the WFCO will do the job at 13.6 as long as you don't expect it to do its advertised 14.4, which is another story. You can use your charger if you ever needed to get over 14v with your batts run down any.

I still think you need to do more tests on what's there, since a new power centre might not fix the problem. It might, but first you need more proof that t would-- IMO.

Your bad battery may have over-worked the converter. With that gone, things might do better. Too many possibles!

[Andonso]

I pulled and tested the PD9280 and it definitlly doesn't put out any DC voltage (except perhaps for a few millvolts)

The case uses rivets instead of screws so when I have the time I may drill out the rivets and take a look inside. If beyond repair possibly can be used for parts.


Yes I know I could relocate a converter as there a small cupboard near the floor next to the sink that should be able to accommodate a converter. However I'm still leaning towards an entire new dist. panel with converter as the old one has no cover. Taking a look on eBay I'm not able to find any spare parts or a cover that fits a 6300.

I saw a Parallax 8300 series for around $250.00. I'm not finding any readily available information about Parallax's charging rates. I suppose it must be buried in documentation somewhere.


I'll think it over for a while as it would be much simpler to install a less expensive 55 amp WFCO dist. panel for $135.00.

The Xantrex Truecharge battery charger is a three stage 10 amp charger I believe it uses PWM (pulse width modulation) and it charges down to less than one amp when a battery becomes full. Though designed for one battery it seems to be able to charge two batteries. (the older third Rv battery I removed as it's cells keep losing liquid it's date code is 01/06 while the other two are 01/7) Iirc I picked them up at costco a number years ago.

I do have another Xantrex Truecharge 10 amp charger that's designed for two batteries. Charges each battery individually.

10 amps perhaps is barely enough to charge two batteries, lighting and power the refrig. However I think the motorhome minimally requires a 30 amp charger.

I also have a 115 watt solar panel and a 45 amp tri-star solar controler wired to the motorhome. The solar panel I keep in storage but all I need to do is set it up on the roof or next the the mh and flip the isolator switch.

I suppose I can temporarily connect the solar panel to provide a little more than 10 amps.

Solar controllers imo do a little better at charging batteries than many of the RV chargers/converters. People who are into solar need to maintain batteries a long time.

A quality deep cycle open cell deep cycle battery if maintained potentially will last from 15 to 20 years. Having a good charger is impertive. My Jeep has an Optima battery that I purchased new around 10 years ago still working well without any problems. One thing about AGM batteries is they don't behave the same as open cells so it's a good idea to find a 3 or 4 stage charger that's designed for AGM or Gel batteries.

Most RV chargers do a good job but I think solar controller (ones that I've looked at) have an edge over most of the RV chargers as their design to get a maxiumu life out of a battery bank. The Tri-Star 45 e.g. is programable, with many settings that effect the charging rate and maintenance of batteries.

[BFL13]

Those batteries will be good boat anchors unless you can get them properly recharged for many hours using that charger. You can check with an hydrometer as things progress for getting them up to 1.275 or so.

You have the battery wires to the dist panel now, so all you need is a converter on the battery posts. That will allow the converter to run the dist panel up the battery wires.

The DC distribution location would be hard to relocate, but the converter (deck mount type) can go anywhere you can get 120v to it and get the output to the battery bank. Usually you want it close to the batteries for less voltage drop, but on shore power that is not so important.

You can cover the existing power centre with any vented panel from a hardware store. Just move the converter to someplace else.

Our Class C has the 6300 under a dinette seat. The battery compartment is under there from outside. I yanked the 6300 lower portion, jumpered the 6300's split fuse panel so I could keep it as is, and put a deck mount converter under the seat plugged into a 120v receptacle I added in there, and wired the converter output to the battery bank. You don't have to put the converter in where the "lower portion" was.

[Andonso]

I currently have a 10 amp Xantrex automobile charger connected to dc battery wires from dc distribution panel which is enough for lighting and to power the Norcold frig.

I'm going to remove the entire 6300 dist panel and thinking of finding an entire new dist. panel with a power converter and cover.

After removal I'll further test the PD9280 to make certain it indeed isn't functioning.

The factory Magnetex 6300 cover is missing which makes it vunderable to exterior forces and the area underneath doesn't have enough room to completely cover and secure the PD9280 which heat sink section was sticking out a little bit. Vunderable to being kicked by people using the sink.

The cut out area for the 6300 dist panel with converter is approx 12" x 11" The depth is compromised by plumbing and other wiring. So there's not alot of room to install a separate coverter without modifications to the dist. panel's cut-out.

I'm not certain if a 14.4 vdc charge of two RV marine batteries is needed as the batteries have been only used for a short while (for a few hours to a day or two) after a power outages caused by wind & rain storms. Perhaps once or twice a year.

[BFL13]

You get no 12v when the battery bank is disconnected, but 9 volts with battery, so the batteries have been run down badly and first priority is to get them back up or be buying a new one (you only need one or none when on shore power and your converter is working.)

The fact you got power from battery to the DC fuse panel shows the "battery fuse" or DC breaker instead of a fuse, is ok and the positive path from DC panel to battery is ok, so the converter output to the DC panel should have been getting to the battery and not letting them get run down.

So that indicates the converter is not supplying DC to the DC panel and the battery lugs on that. Probably not since the water episode two weeks ago. Could be a loose converter wire into a lug on the panel front or back. (off chance)

You want to know if you have 12v DC above say 11v, will everything work? Check by using a battery that is charged instead of the near dead ones. You can run the engine and see if you get alternator charging, which will also run DC to the 12v system.

With the Parallax there were two 30amp fuses on the DC fuse panel, which were to protect the converter from reverse polarity hooking the battery wires on backwards. They would also blow for other events. With the PD, those are on the converter itself, which you checked. What about the two on the panel? (off - chance)

If everything works with a charged battery, then you don't need a whole new power centre. You may or may not need a converter, needs a "bench test" with 120v not from the input it has now (to eliminate that suspect)

If it is only the fridge that has "low DC" but the lights work, then there are things to check just for the fridge.

Also look for any DC breakers near the power centre -those little metal cover ones with a bolt/nut at either end. You can jumper those one at a time to see if any have failed to reset.

[time2roll]

Please do not get a WFCO.

Amazon PowerMax PM3 35 amp $92 shipped

This will charge faster, is more reliable, longer warranty, take better care of batteries, and less money vs 55a WFCO.

[BFL13]

The 6300 was old tech which had "dirty DC" and needed the battery to filter it to be clean DC. The 7300 is a "switch mode" modern type like all of them now since about fifteen years ago or so, that makes clean DC and does not need any battery to filter it.

The 7300 is not worth the money because it only does 13.8v and you can get three-stage ones for less money.

The WFCO does 13.6 which is fine if you are only ever on shore power. Its problems are with going to its other two stages, so you can really only count on it for that 13.6, but that is all you need it seems. So it is all about money if you only want about 13.6v.

I am unclear what you have working now for DC to the fridge controls and lights , fans etc. You might not need new anything without knowing more. OTOH, you might have a problem that a new power centre won't fix. IMO more trouble shooting etc would be worth doing.

[Andonso]

BFL13 wrote:


I think your "Parallax" is really a Magnetek 6300 from that long ago, and with the 6300 gone, you would have needed a DC fuse panel that did not split for dirty and clean DC like the 6300s did. If you did not do that, you still can. (You can jumper the two pos red and blue on the old 6300's panel to fix that) The 7300 was all clean, so no problem. That is still the case about the fuse panel even if your do have to replace the PD.

Yes I believe your correct. Iirc from years ago it's a Magnetek 6300 and I was looking at the 7300 and then came across the PD9280.

The wiring I believe is ok as I remember going through using schematics making certain all the wiring and connections were correct. I also have factory wiring schematics for the entire motorhome.

I remember there were upgrade kits for the 6300 and 7300 which I believe are still available.

A new 45 amp Magnetek 7300 is around $230.00 plus ~20.00 shipping.

I can get a WFCO 8955 Power Center Converter 55 amp WF8955PEC for $135.00 with free shipping.

So I'm not certain if a new Magnetek 7300 would be worth an additional $115.00? and how much more reliable it would be compared to the WFCO 8955?

[BFL13]

I would not get a WFCO since there have been so many reports of problems with it over on the Tech Issues forum. There are other complete power centres you can get. IMO this one would be a good choice, but there are others of course:

http://www.bestconverter.com/Boondocker-4-Stage-Power-Center-60-Amp-BD-1260PC_p_552.html#.WvSfj1KWxL...

Boondockers are supplied by PowerMax, which makes a good converter.

Here is another possible

http://www.bestconverter.com/PD4060-60-Amp-Inteli-Power-Mighty-Mini-Power-Center_p_458.html#.WvSgZFK...

[Andonso]

I checked for dc power at the dc outputs and also the AC which is connected to ground and spliced into AC along with the power distribution panel.

The PUD's 30 amp service is working fine.

I did have some problems a while back when water from the sink splashed down into the distribution panel and wiring. There was some minor sparking. After disconnecting PUD power I cleaned up the water with a rag and allowed everything to dry out. The power distribution and PD9280 has been working just fine. AFAIK no water got inside the PD9280 but perhaps it was effected somehow and after a couple of weeks quit working?

Anyway I'm looking at this power dist. that comes with a power converter. I'm just wondering if it will last? The RV is normally lived in 24/7 except perhaps a few months out of the year.

WFCO 8955 RV Trailer Power Center Converter 55 amp New WF8955PEC

I just don't want another failing power converter in a few years. The AC / DC conversion is used mostly for lighting and currently the Norcold Absorption refrig. I would have replaced with an compressor frig but wasn't able to find one the right dimensions for it's cut-out.

Absorption frigs are good for traveling as they run on gas, but cost more to operate.

This Norcold N641 has worked ok, but did have problems with PCB corrosion as heavy wet weather (near the ocean) water would get inside near it's PCB and the refrig would quit working for a while until everything dried out.

So I removed it's PCB, cleaned it up and then coated the PCB with a Urethane Seal Coat Viscous Liquid Coating.

Af7er applying a Viscous coating to a PCB it's able to operate in wet environments and prevents corrosion from occurring.

If your RV is in an area with high humidity, rains alot, etc. It's not a bad idea to coat the frigs PCB with something as most RV refrigerators are exposed to the elements through their venting. Heavy rains and winds moisture can accumulate inside on the back of the cooling unit. On mine it lead to the PCB having green corrosion on the PCB electronics, plug connectors, fuses, etc.

Some rv frigs their PCB can be expensive. The one for my Norcold their asking around ~$200.00 to ~$250.00.

However some RV frig. manufactures such as Norcold have come out with a new version PCB that fits a bunch of different models at nearly half the cost.