Purchasing a Class C with questions

[gretchenjack]

I will be purchasing an RV hopefully within the next few months. Questions always pop into my head so here goes...

1. Pros and Cons of jack levelers? Is there maintenance with levelers?
It seems to me if you open a slide and the RV is not level that could be a huge problem.

2. In everyone's experience, what's the best handling Class C around 26' to 31'?

3. Does anyone have experience with a rack in the rear to carry a Vespa and a bicycle? What are the pro's and con's?

4. I am sure everyone asks this question...Gas or Diesel?

[Bumpyroad]

I agree that straight action jacks are preferable to kick down ones, but I was limited in space for the install on my bounder and had to use kick down. much better than nothing.
bumpy

[j-d]

About Bounce and Sway... If you haven't installed heavy duty front (1-3/8') and rear (1-1/2") anti-sway bars, you'd be amazed at how they help a PARKED RV. We have a 31' Class C on a Ford E450 chassis. It's equipped with HWH kick-down leveling jacks, so I can tell you that's true. Even with jacks down, the coach is still sitting on its tires and suspension. It's not like a diesel pusher that squats down onto its jacks by dumping the airbags.
Of course Levelers don't help on the road, and Sway Bard don't level.
We had a 21' Class C on a Ford E350, again with HWH kick down levelers. Here's what I've learned from having those two RV's:
1. They're more satisfactory on a longer Class C. This is because the front jacks are the same distance behind the front axle, and the rear jacks are the same distance behind the rear axle. The construction of the chassis dictates this. The shorter the wheelbase, the more unwanted lift you get on one end when you try to raise the other end to achieve level. Longer wheelbase reduces that effect.
2. Same thing happens side to side too, whether the coach is short or long. Look under one. You'll see how closely spaced the chassis rails are. If your coach is 4" off level side to side, you may find you have to lift the low side 6" to reach level.
3. Simple controls are good. The 24' coach had separate controls for each jack. That's not done anymore, because owners were racking their coach by lifting one corner at a time. So the jack companies tried to protect us from that by making controls that are Front, Rear, Left, and Right. So Raise Right deploys both passenger side jacks. Raise Front deploys right front and left front. I still think I'd rather have separate controls. That makes me also think I'd take the two-jacks-at-a-time arrangement than a fully automatic system and have to deal with still more unintended consequences. Why? Because...
3. Kick Down Jacks are BAD. I have never had a jack fail to extend or fail to retract. What I have almost always had, is jacks extending without kicking down. 4. I also believe kick down jacks are not as steady as direct acting jacks. The kick down pivots introduce a wobble that direct acting doesn't have.

So, If you want power levelers, I recommend Direct Acting with Basic Controls. One of the brands (Big Foot, I think... ) was running a very attractive sale.

[Ovaleye]

Im lazy and Im only camping to have fun in 20 years have only found maybe a one in ten flat level sights. Even then you get the bounce and sway Levelers are great Im now have a 31' Georgie boy MAVERICK

[DrewE]

pnichols wrote:

DrewE wrote:
For my motorhome, at least, the shower draining decently seems to be the most sensitive to inadequate leveling.

Hmmmm ..... our shower has a "pan bottom" with a 2-3 inch high edge all around it's circumference. Being out of level enough to not be able to take a shower with our shower's design is not a concern at all, unless it's floor drain should clog without the shower taker noticing it.

I have a similar design. It doesn't let water slosh out of the shower (unless very far from level), but it does leave puddles in the shower that don't drain out if it's not pretty close to level...or, more precisely, slanted much at all forward or to the right, since the drain is in the back left corner.

[Desert_Captain]

kfp673 wrote:

Desert Captain wrote:
Under the heading of "opinions vary"...

Auto leveler systems are: expensive, problematic and for the most part totally unnecessary... basically a solution for which there is no known problem. :h

Their weight comes right off of your payload {and most Class C's, especially any 26 - 30' + are already short of}. Most sites in CG's and especially RV parks are dead level to begin with. Walk around any CG or RV Park and count the number of folks with auto levelers deployed... that are using leggo blocks or good ole 2 X 6's. :S

Levelers are about as reilable as slides and auto steps {as in not very} and provide little if any benefit in most locations. Oh, did I mention that they are ridiculously expensive? All salesmen highly recommend them as in "You have got to get these..." which tells you a lot about the relative mark up involved.

Other than that {Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?}

Like I said.... Opinions and YMMV.

:C

Interestingly, I am 100% on the opposite side of this argument. I am in the market for a new RV and will not buy anything without auto level ever again. I have had RV's for 20 years and most of our camping is east coast in the mountains etc where it is very common to need 4-8" of lift. My last trip was a festival we were attending and it was raining. Unit kept kicking the levelers and took me no less than an hour to get the thing level. My wife says I have run out of course words just from leveling the camper. I think I would go without a shower before auto levers on my next unit 😉

First of all I'm sorry you think this is an argument... actually it is a discussion. A site that requires 6 to 8" of leveling is not a site but a slope. Some levelers are not even capable of making that large of an adjustment. If your rig is 8" off the ground it is a lot of things but stable{safe?} is not one of them. :S

If you need levelers and are willing to give up the payload and the $ by all means have at it. I have never taken more than 2 minutes and two Leggo blocks high, about 1.5", to level our coach but it is only a 24' C. Ironically you see lots of folks with levelers using blocks under their levelers of the same height. :h

[pnichols]

DrewE wrote:
For my motorhome, at least, the shower draining decently seems to be the most sensitive to inadequate leveling.

Hmmmm ..... our shower has a "pan bottom" with a 2-3 inch high edge all around it's circumference. Being out of level enough to not be able to take a shower with our shower's design is not a concern at all, unless it's floor drain should clog without the shower taker noticing it.

I'm most concerned about being out-of-level enough for our operating refrigerator to be slightly damaged in such situations as being parked on hilly streets or parking spots for hours while dining/sightseeing/hiking/etc.. We have a small enough motorhome and hence don't tow ... so we do things like this many times. A gimbal'd-mount propane refrigerator would definitely add worry free flexibility to some of our RV trips.

[DrewE]

pnichols wrote:
For what it's worth ... I'd rather not need either blocks or jacks anywhere near as often.

How about a couple of features that are long overdue:

1. RV propane refrigerators mounted on gimbal'd frames so that they are always level.

AND

2. RV beds mounted on gimbal'd frames or with some kind of simple and easy to access four-corner bed jacks so that they could always be made pretty level.

I think #2 is called a hammock :B

If you're out of level far enough for the fridge to be affected (a couple of degrees), you'd also want the shower on a gimbal mount so it drains, and probably the stovetop so your eggs don't slide to a corner of the frypan, and...

For my motorhome, at least, the shower draining decently seems to be the most sensitive to inadequate leveling.

[pnichols]

For what it's worth ... I'd rather not need either blocks or jacks anywhere near as often.

How about a couple of features that are long overdue:

1. RV propane refrigerators mounted on gimbal'd frames so that they are always level.

AND

2. RV beds mounted on gimbal'd frames or with some kind of simple and easy to access four-corner bed jacks so that they could always be made pretty level.

[kfp673]

Desert Captain wrote:
Under the heading of "opinions vary"...

Auto leveler systems are: expensive, problematic and for the most part totally unnecessary... basically a solution for which there is no known problem. :h

Their weight comes right off of your payload {and most Class C's, especially any 26 - 30' + are already short of}. Most sites in CG's and especially RV parks are dead level to begin with. Walk around any CG or RV Park and count the number of folks with auto levelers deployed... that are using leggo blocks or good ole 2 X 6's. :S

Levelers are about as reilable as slides and auto steps {as in not very} and provide little if any benefit in most locations. Oh, did I mention that they are ridiculously expensive? All salesmen highly recommend them as in "You have got to get these..." which tells you a lot about the relative mark up involved.

Other than that {Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?}

Like I said.... Opinions and YMMV.

:C

Interestingly, I am 100% on the opposite side of this argument. I am in the market for a new RV and will not buy anything without auto level ever again. I have had RV's for 20 years and most of our camping is east coast in the mountains etc where it is very common to need 4-8" of lift. My last trip was a festival we were attending and it was raining. Unit kept kicking the levelers and took me no less than an hour to get the thing level. My wife says I have run out of course words just from leveling the camper. I think I would go without a shower before auto levers on my next unit 😉

[pnichols]

maillemaker wrote:

I weighed my RV once at a truck stop and we are under weight so that's not a problem either. But then my under-rig compartments and cabinets are all mostly empty. I don't know what you guys take camping with you but for me it's a soft bag full of clothes for the weekend and some guns and that's about it. I suspect the food and water weigh more than anything else. A couple of times we have gone for week-long trips to Disney and then the cabinets get pretty well used up but I still don't put anything in the dirty and rusty old under-rig compartments except my little gas grill. Well, I recently relocated my house battery into the compartment behind the generator and added a second one. the rest of the compartment is a rubbermaid tub for the poop pipe.

We have an overkill E450 chassis under our relatively small 24 foot Class C, so it's irrelevant how much "stuff" we carry along weight-wise. It has seven (7) outside storage compartments that are steel walled, with carpeted floors, and with lockable slam-shut doors with heavy rubber seals around the doors. They do not get dusty when on-road or off-road.

We don't like to have to custom pack our RV for each particular trip, so we have in it at all times just about everything that would be required for any type of trip, any need on a trip, and as much Plan B backup for equipment failures as possible so we don't have to mess with getting help in strange places or heading for home.

Here's a list of some of the non-food items we keep our 24 foot Class C loaded with for every trip - mostly in the outside cabinets and under the cab seats. We don't strap anything to the roof ladder and the sewer hoses are carried in outside storage cabinets - not in a tube along, or instead of, the full size steel rear bumper:

- A full size shovel.
- A extended lift 12 ton hydraulic jack.
- A Honda portable generator (in addition to the built-in Onan).
- A full size beach umbrella.
- A full pressure continuous sevice 120V compressor.
- A CHP service rated tow chain.
- A full size spare tire and lug wrench.
- All the leveling blocks and wood pieces I mentioned earlier in this topic tread.
- A remote inspection scope.
- A powerful 12V ventilation fan with a 15 foot extension cord.
- A set of crutches.
- A heating pad.
- A blood pressure monitor.
- A couple of CPAP machines.
- A 5 gallon bucket.
- A 3 gallon bucket.
- Spare oil for the V10, the Onan, and the Honda.
- A spare serpentine belt for the V10.
- A full size broom.
- A roll of 4" Eternabond.
- A chaulking gun and both types of chaulk ... self-leveling and non-self-leveling.
- A volt/amp digital meter.
- A couple of trucker-type tire pressure guages.
- A set of tire chains.
- Two lounge chairs ... a His size and a Hers size.
- Three regular lawn chairs.
- Three small chairside tables.
- A large folding table.
- A large assortment of tools.
- A hand saw for cutting large limbs.
- A small saw for cutting small limbs.
- A portable BBQ.
- An outside single cooking burner.
- A bunch of rocking hounding equipment such as chisels, pickaxes, etc..
- A couple of down jackets.
- A couple of rain coats.
- A couple of umbrellas ... one of which is a light color to do double service as a sun umbrella.
- Several flashlights.
- Two outside table lights.
- Rope.
- Clothes for all kinds of weather.
- An outside carpet.
- A 2 gallon propane tank and a 5 gallon propane tank.
- A large outdoor propane firepit.
- Two sets of binoculars.
- Spare gas for the portable Honda generator.
- Various spare engine fluids.
- A portable battery charger.
- A couple of 15 foot sewer hoses.
- A 5 foot sewer extension hose.
- 100 feet of potable water hoses.
- A 50 foot heavy duty extension cord.
- Several standard extension cords.
- Several spare sewer hookup fittings.
- A tire puncture repair kit.
- A couple of cans of slow tire leak inflator/sealers.
- A portable battery charger.

For the special fishing-only trips where we tow our small boat along, we add fishing equipment and life jackets to the above list.

[maillemaker]

Well, my RV came with them and the whole RV only cost $7500 so the cost wasn't an issue for me.

I weighed my RV once at a truck stop and we are under weight so that's not a problem either. But then my under-rig compartments and cabinets are all mostly empty. I don't know what you guys take camping with you but for me it's a soft bag full of clothes for the weekend and some guns and that's about it. I suspect the food and water weigh more than anything else. A couple of times we have gone for week-long trips to Disney and then the cabinets get pretty well used up but I still don't put anything in the dirty and rusty old under-rig compartments except my little gas grill. Well, I recently relocated my house battery into the compartment behind the generator and added a second one. the rest of the compartment is a rubbermaid tub for the poop pipe.

I've never had to fumble around outside with blocks of wood - I just pull into a spot, bend over and throw some levers and I'm done. But like I said, leveling is just a small part of what the levelers do for you. Mostly what I like is that they make the house sit still and not bounce around on the suspension.

Steve

[Desert_Captain]

"Wow, that sure is an opinion, abet one I don't think many have. I love my levelers, slides and my steps. Maybe I just camp at the wrong places but there aren't many with the view in my signature photo that are dead level, in fact, the fact that most sites aren't dead level is why we have levelers. We enjoyed our non-slide and levelers rig but they sure make life easier for us."

Delighted to hear that what you have works for you.... that's one. LMAO

When levelers stop taking hundreds of pounds off of your payload, stop costing thousands of dollars and become anything even close to reliable {spend a little time reading about all of the leveler issues on this and other Forums} and perhaps I will rethink my opinion... but I'm sure we both doubt it. LMAO {again}.

My 8 year old yellow Leggo blocks are still working just fine {cost me less than $40} and I never have had to use more than two high anywhere. Also please explain why so many with levelers have to reach under their rigs to place Leggo's under their levelers? :h Come on now, what's up with that?

I can sit in my rig and know very accurately what I need to get level enough to keep my refrigeration happy. Beyond that not much is needed especially at about $4,000 a set to provide a solution for which there is no known problem. {Still LMAO}.

Use whatever works for you but wasting several hundred pounds of payload and thousands of dollars for a system that may or may not work when you need it the most is just something that I have no interest, much less need to do.

Like I said... Opinions and YMMV.

:B

[pnichols]

Bumpyroad wrote:
are 8 inch boards wide enough to support the edges of the tire treads?

Yep.

BTW #1 - I fit all 5 step blocks plus the 5 other wood pieces in only one of our 2005 model year 24 foot Class C's seven outside storage cabinets! They don't build/design em' like they used to.

BTW #2 - The tread on my Class C's non-stock 215/85/R16 tires is "slightly" narrower than the tread on the stock 225/75/R16 tires that came on it because I wanted a taller tire for better ground clearance without having to change rims to fit fatter tires ... or reduce spacing between rear dual sidewalls by using fatter tires on stock rims, thus reducing cooling air flow between the tires in the dual sets.

[Bumpyroad]

when I added levelers on my Bounder I had to use kick down jacks because of space issues. when I ordered my chieftain, I ordered them from the factory.
but as far as "wasting" money, I'd rather "waste" $4,000 for levelers than $8,000 for FBP.
and with the use of boards, since you will need doubles for the rear I think they would be a lot closer to the weight of levelers. are 8 inch boards wide enough to support the edges of the tire treads?
bumpy