RIP Propane

[oneolddog]

Class A's started going all electric more and more years ago and we are now seeing that trend move down the line to Class C's. It is now well know that you no longer need propane to dry camp. I still buy propane for our company equipment and are finding it harder and harder to buy as more stations quit selling it due to lack of demand.

Down the road it may be only available for the remaining forklifts etc. from specialty suppliers. This could be a real pain for people with older model RV's that still use propane. Has anyone else experienced more difficulty in buying propane than they used to?

[soren]

CA Traveler wrote:

soren wrote:
At the moment, large end user bulk purchases are going for under $1.50/gal. in my area, and retail is $3.19 to $3.99 at local filling stations.

Yikes - Tractor Supply in Chandler, AZ is $1.79/gal. :C

Yea, I wonder if that is their current national price, as that's what I saw advertised at a TC in Maine, a week or two ago. That was, BTW, my last time wasting another minute of my life at a TC, discussing why they cannot supply propane. It's always an excuse, literally, the last four trips have been.

#1. We are out of it until next week
#2 We don't have anyone that knows how to fill tanks.
#3 We don't fill motorhome tanks.
#4 We don't have a long enough hose to get past the bollards surrounding the tank, and can only fill tanks that can be carried up to the pump.

This was in two locations in Fl. and one in Maine. I'm sure other's have had much better experiences, but it I wonder why they bother to even have the equipment on site?

[oneolddog]

I obviously didn't write the post correctly and the conversation has changed throughout the posts.

1) In the Metro Vancouver area where I live there are fewer and fewer full service propane sellers that are able to fill an RV or our 35lb propane tanks that my company uses for our little sweepers. Two stations recently closed near us and I usually have to drive along distance to get to one. You can take a 20lb bottle and do an exchange absolutely anywhere.

2) When I mentioned that propane RV's are being built less and less in favour of 'all electric' I was referring to diesel motor homes. Obviously gas and trailers will always need propane. I spend a lot of time on the forums for diesel owners and it has been mentioned many times that the trend is definitely going towards 'all electric'.

3) Dry camp without propane: Yes, I've dry camped without propane for a week no problem. I had an Aquahot hydronic heating system but still had propane. The propane was only used for my BBQ. You will run out of fresh water before you will run out of diesel. I ran my generator once in the morning and once in the evening only. The myth about you need propane to dry camp is no longer. The people that REALLY know through REAL experience by way of ownership of coaches with both propane and 'all electric' can testify to this.

[wa8yxm]

Have never had a problem finding Propane.. But of course I know where to look.

Grew up with Propane on the farm, Many farms, Many campgrounds, use Propane for heating water and cooking. Not every place has natural gas and any decent commercial cook wants GAS not electric, so the option is Propane. It will never RIP as you put it..

I might add.. I too learned to cook with GAS.. I can and do use electric, but I much prefer Gas.

[usersmanual]

westernrvparkowner wrote:

usersmanual wrote:

Chum lee wrote:
Google is your friend. Propane is not going away as a fuel source within any of our lifetimes. There is simply too much demand for the product. Because of building/fire/municipal codes, bulk propane may not be available in many locations, especially in areas of high density populations. It's a fire hazard. Hint: Don't run out and try to buy bulk propane in population dense areas because you'll pay much higher prices there if you can even find it. Think . . . . industrial gasses/farm supply. That implies lower density commercial activity and lower density residential.

Chum lee

He never said it was going away! why do people keep posting such bunk.??He said in his opinion that filling availability for RV was dwindling because of all electric coaches being produced instead of LPG ones that all he suggested nothing to do with the actual supply and usage of propane

Actually, the subject line says "RIP Propane" which is a clear statement that they believe propane is going away.

agreed it does but when u read the op statement it clear hes talking about availability to the rv/bbq/camper customer
Iam sure hes smart enough to know that LPG will never ever go away
although the demand in canada is a pittance compared to the us as we have way more nat gas useage here for heating than lpg
also the us has 326 million people we have 33 million which is less than the state of California alone

[westernrvparkow]

usersmanual wrote:

Chum lee wrote:
Google is your friend. Propane is not going away as a fuel source within any of our lifetimes. There is simply too much demand for the product. Because of building/fire/municipal codes, bulk propane may not be available in many locations, especially in areas of high density populations. It's a fire hazard. Hint: Don't run out and try to buy bulk propane in population dense areas because you'll pay much higher prices there if you can even find it. Think . . . . industrial gasses/farm supply. That implies lower density commercial activity and lower density residential.

Chum lee

He never said it was going away! why do people keep posting such bunk.??He said in his opinion that filling availability for RV was dwindling because of all electric coaches being produced instead of LPG ones that all he suggested nothing to do with the actual supply and usage of propane

Actually, the subject line says "RIP Propane" which is a clear statement that they believe propane is going away.

[usersmanual]

Chum lee wrote:
Google is your friend. Propane is not going away as a fuel source within any of our lifetimes. There is simply too much demand for the product. Because of building/fire/municipal codes, bulk propane may not be available in many locations, especially in areas of high density populations. It's a fire hazard. Hint: Don't run out and try to buy bulk propane in population dense areas because you'll pay much higher prices there if you can even find it. Think . . . . industrial gasses/farm supply. That implies lower density commercial activity and lower density residential.

Chum lee

He never said it was going away! why do people keep posting such bunk.??He said in his opinion that filling availability for RV was dwindling because of all electric coaches being produced instead of LPG ones that all he suggested nothing to do with the actual supply and usage of propane
I agree with the op on LPG outlets. could start to be harder to find a actual RV fill spot in certain areas no doubt about that
because of zoning requirements,costs of set up verses return,employee traing etc

[westernrvparkow]

soren wrote:

liborko wrote:
Like I said in my previous post I tried to get propane in three fair size towns before I finally found gas station that had propane and was willing to refill. It seems to me that gas stations are reluctant to sell propane because average propane fill is probably in $25-30 range and needs licensed person to dispense it while average gasoline fill is probably in $50-100 range and anyone can do it. There just is not enough profit to sell propane. Who knows?

I have a supplier who runs a small propane station as a sideline at his plumbing supply store. Last time I filled there, he told me that he had no skin in the game at all. His propane supplier supplied and installed the filling and storage equipment. I paid $1.40 a gallon over his cost. At the moment, large end user bulk purchases are going for under $1.50/gal. in my area, and retail is $3.19 to $3.99 at local filling stations. So, compared to somebody dropping $30-50 to fill their car's gas tank, RV propane is a heck of alot more profitable. A few pennies a gallon profit on gasoline, $1.70-$2.50, and more, a gallon on propane. I just passed a station that had CNG for vehicle use at $1.69 Gal. and propane for BBQ and RV fills at $3.99. Not quite an even comparison, but still interesting.

We filled tanks for years, and it isn't very profitable at all. Yes, you can get a dollar or two over cost, but you don't pump that much. The vast majority of purchases are filling the 20 pound barbeque tanks. They hold 4 gallons. That's only $8.00 gross profit each fill. You maybe average 4 or 5 bottles a day. Even if business is completely steady all year, that is still only $15,000 a year. But to do that, you have an employee fill each tank. That costs labor and that employee has to go outside into the elements at each customer's beckoning call. That means just like the mailman they have to be available come rain, snow, sleet and gloom of night. Your insurance policy must have a propane fill rider. That costs additional premiums. You have to have the space available for RVs to pull up to the pump location and also be able to navigate out, that takes up a lot of real estate in prime locations. There are other requirements and costs as to where a pump can be located and what needs to be done to keep the area safe and secure. We determined it just wasn't worth it and we are not alone.

[tropical36]

donn0128 wrote:
Dont know where you go, but i see propane everywhere. All electric coaches? A big joke for people who like to camping. It is intended for those that love the RV resorts and what goes along with that.

A big joke is about right and would like to see how long one could sustain life, running the MW/convection oven and the range top. Well, maybe with 24 batteries or so and not even sure the range is connected to the inverter. Is the range top, 120 or 240vac?
Then again, as long as you're running the genset, you can do a lot and get by for some time.
DW still likes the burners and baking things in the oven.

[CA_Traveler]

deleted

[CA_Traveler]

soren wrote:
At the moment, large end user bulk purchases are going for under $1.50/gal. in my area, and retail is $3.19 to $3.99 at local filling stations.

Yikes - Tractor Supply in Chandler, AZ is $1.79/gal. :C

[Chum_lee]

Google is your friend. Propane is not going away as a fuel source within any of our lifetimes. There is simply too much demand for the product. Because of recent changes to many building/fire/municipal codes, bulk propane may not be available in many locations, especially in areas of high population density. Refilling bulk propane tanks is a major fire hazard. Hint: Don't run out and try to buy bulk propane in population dense areas because you'll pay much higher prices there if you can even find it. Think . . . . truck stops/industrial gasses/farm supply/private RV parks/camp grounds. That implies lower density commercial/residential activity.

Chum lee

[soren]

liborko wrote:
Like I said in my previous post I tried to get propane in three fair size towns before I finally found gas station that had propane and was willing to refill. It seems to me that gas stations are reluctant to sell propane because average propane fill is probably in $25-30 range and needs licensed person to dispense it while average gasoline fill is probably in $50-100 range and anyone can do it. There just is not enough profit to sell propane. Who knows?

I have a supplier who runs a small propane station as a sideline at his plumbing supply store. Last time I filled there, he told me that he had no skin in the game at all. His propane supplier supplied and installed the filling and storage equipment. I paid $1.40 a gallon over his cost. At the moment, large end user bulk purchases are going for under $1.50/gal. in my area, and retail is $3.19 to $3.99 at local filling stations. So, compared to somebody dropping $30-50 to fill their car's gas tank, RV propane is a heck of alot more profitable. A few pennies a gallon profit on gasoline, $1.70-$2.50, and more, a gallon on propane. I just passed a station that had CNG for vehicle use at $1.69 Gal. and propane for BBQ and RV fills at $3.99. Not quite an even comparison, but still interesting.

[Bumpyroad]

liborko wrote:
Like I said in my previous post I tried to get propane in three fair size towns before I finally found gas station that had propane and was willing to refill. It seems to me that gas stations are reluctant to sell propane because average propane fill is probably in $25-30 range and needs licensed person to dispense it while average gasoline fill is probably in $50-100 range and anyone can do it. There just is not enough profit to sell propane. Who knows?

and those "fair sized towns" didn't have a bulk propane supplier in them or did you just try gas stations?
bumpy

[usersmanual]

liborko wrote:
Like I said in my previous post I tried to get propane in three fair size towns before I finally found gas station that had propane and was willing to refill. It seems to me that gas stations are reluctant to sell propane because average propane fill is probably in $25-30 range and needs licensed person to dispense it while average gasoline fill is probably in $50-100 range and anyone can do it. There just is not enough profit to sell propane. Who knows?

theres multi LPG sales outlets In Vernon bc let me be clear on that.I have been all the province and have never saw a lack of LPG outlets

[liborko]

Like I said in my previous post I tried to get propane in three fair size towns before I finally found gas station that had propane and was willing to refill. It seems to me that gas stations are reluctant to sell propane because average propane fill is probably in $25-30 range and needs licensed person to dispense it while average gasoline fill is probably in $50-100 range and anyone can do it. There just is not enough profit to sell propane. Who knows?