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Step one. Bought the van.

WVvan
Explorer
Explorer
Hello Everybody,
First post.
I camp a lot in tents but after spending three days straight in a tent in the rain at Dolly Sods I swore I'd make a change.
Here it is.


Bought it Wednesday.
Drove it home today.
1999 Ford E-250, 6 cylinder, 125K miles.
Was a home builders work van. Some slight surface rust.
Cargo doors a bit dinged up.
I'm planning on doing a full conversion. Most of the work I'll do myself but some will be beyond my abilities. I'm giving myself a deadline of no later than spring. Van won't fit into my small garage so that will affect how/when I can work on it.

I've been reading this and other conversion forums for a few weeks. It's been a huge help so far. Learned quite a lot already but there's still a lot I don't know. Counting on the pros who frequent this forum for some advice.

Advice like: The previous owner drilled some 3/4 inch holes in the floor for bolted down shelving. Whats the best way to cover these holes from underneath? Should I treat the metal edges of the holes before I start?

Thanks for your time, now and in the future.
WVvan

P.S. I'm thinking of call it "HAL the Van".
Why HAL? Well since my name is Dave....

Dave Bowman: Open the pod bay doors, HAL.
HAL: I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.
Open the pod bay doors Hal.

Once I exit Hal, this is what I do.
WWW.WVBIKE.ORG
619 REPLIES 619

landyacht318
Explorer
Explorer
Does the attachment method need to completely clear the L brackets the square tubing rides/slides within?
Are you even looking for suggestions, or just indicating that you are merely pondering the possibly imponderable?

If it must clear the L bracket, I think I would use a large, thick washer,and cut it out so it resembles a U. then drill 2 holes in the washer that match the square tubing on one side of the 'U', and one hole on the other side of the U for the Actuator.

Are you being a good battery owner and keeping those new 6 volts on a trickle charger, or recharging weekly or every few weeks at least?

WVvan
Explorer
Explorer
Sofa-bed continued:

I need a way to drive the square tube and it's newly attached metal angle back and forth which will also move the Seat Platform when done.


I'm going to use a Firgelli Automations 12" Stroke 150lb Force Linear Actuator. $119.99.






Link to product's web page

I have no particular knowledge about this company or it's products. Just did a Google search and found them. Also searched out some (hopefully) independent reviews that liked their actuators.

I choose this model since I want the Seat Platform to move 12" and this actuator has a "stroke" of 12". This isn't the first actuator I bought for the sofa-bed. The one in the original plan had a stroke of 18" but that didn't work out so I went with this one. I'm planning to now use the 18" on a TV lift.


These actuators use just two wires. Apply power one way and the actuator will run out to max length then stop on it's own. Reverse the polarity on the wires and piston runs in until it stops. You don't have to kill the power. The actuator has it's own internal limits switches. The piston can't be moved manually. It will only move electrically. Max power draw is only 4 amps.

Since I'll be testing the actuator a fair amount I attached a pair of round male quick disconnects to the wires along with some shrink tube.


I'll provide power to the actuator using a single 6 volt battery. Even though it's rated at 12 volt I found it runs just fine with 6 volts. That is it runs OK without any load on the actuator to speak of. Attach a pair of round female disconnects to the battery.


Power it up and marvel as you drive it in and out several times.




Drill a hole at the front edge of the Center Support to create an attachment point for the mounting hole on the motor end of the actuator.


Use a 1/4" bolt to anchor the mounting point.


Now stare at the mounting hole on the end of the piston and ponder out how I'm going to attach the piston to the square tube. Then ponder some more.


continued -
Open the pod bay doors Hal.

Once I exit Hal, this is what I do.
WWW.WVBIKE.ORG

WVvan
Explorer
Explorer
Sofa-bed continued:

Next to add is another 1-1/2" angle. The Seat Platform will be bolted to the horizontal part of the angle. The square tube will drive this metal angle back and forth.


Cut the angle so it's length is the same as the Seat Platform width, 21".


As I'm working on the Center Support it's lying on the workbench so what will be UP on the final install is on the left here. In this picture I'm calling the new angle "Seat Angle". I'm aligning the seat angle so it's just a little bit to the left (above) of the top angle. As the Seat Platform is moved back and forth it will drag across the top angle which is stationary. By raising the seat angle in relation to the top angle it should help reduce that drag.


Use the caliper to keep that alignment constant along the length of the seat angle and the square tube. Clamp the angle and tube together.


Now it gets interesting. I have to bolt the seat angle to the square tube. Problem is the bolts can't go all the way through the tube. Otherwise as the tube slides their heads would engage the bolts that hold the top angle in place. To get around this problem I'll have to work the bolts from within the center of the square tube. This take a little prep work.

I'll be using 1/4" bolts which have a 7/16" size heads. A 7/16" socket is interchangeable with a 11mm metric socket. So find some metric sockets I'm not too worried about. Happen to have a set right here.


The 11mm socket is too large as is. Need to make it smaller. Use the bench grinder.


Note: If you're planning on having an MRI anytime soon and doing any grinding, wear full face protection, not just safety glasses. Don't ask me how I know.

By the time I'm done grinding it will just be thick enough to hold a nut.


Here's the difference between the ground down 11mm and the 10mm and 12mm sockets.


Drill the first of the five holes I'm going to need through the new angle. Line the hole up with one of the tube's perforations.


To install a bolt through the newly drilled hole I'm going to need a few tools. First up a flexible grabber.


Grab a 1/2" long bolt with the business end of the tool.


Slide the bolt through the center of the square tube.


Use the grabber to work the bolt through the drilled hole.




Gently start the nut onto the bolt. If you tighten the nut the grabber won't let go.


Extract the grabber tool. Next up a flexible tool with a magnetic holder at the end.


The socket is too big for the grabber to hold so I'm using the magnetic tool.


Use the magnetic tool to slide the socket into the tube. Notice that even with the grinding the socket doesn't have a lot a clearance. It still has to fit over the head of the bolt inside the tube. Tight fit.


Line up the socket with the tube hole above the bolt head.


You need a socket extension to maneuver the socket inside the tube. Move the socket around until it's on the bolt head.


Then use the socket and and a wrench to tighten the bolt and nut.


Remove the magnetic holder with the socket and drill the hole for the next bolt. Once a bolt has been inserted into the square tube you can't easily work past it. So you have to work from the center of the tube outward.

Add a total of five bolts.


continued -
Open the pod bay doors Hal.

Once I exit Hal, this is what I do.
WWW.WVBIKE.ORG

WVvan
Explorer
Explorer
Sofa-bed continued:

A quick note. These write ups aren't in strict chronological order. It's easier for me to describe the steps if I jump around a little bit.
The previously installed metal angle both supported the bottom of the Seat Platform and helped guide the top of the square tube. Now add the angle to guide the bottom of the tube.


The square tube is 1-1/4" tall and the angles are 1-1/2" tall. You can see there is some overlap when using two angles as guides.


Need to trim a little off the bottom edge of the first angle to remove that overlap.


Since the Seat Platform is 21" wide and 12" of that will be extended out, I'll make the second angle 9" long to correspond with the amount of seat left over the Center Support. The bottom trim needs to be the same length as the second angle.


A funny thing happened on the way to finish that 9" cut. I'm using my trusty old saber saw and it starts to cut slower and slower. Then the smoke detector in the basement goes off. I never did see any actual smoke come out of it but by the end of the cut it's done sabered it's last saw. Had it a couple decades or more. Say good-bye to my old friend.


Say Hello to my new friend.


OOOOOH - Lasers!


These are how the two angles will fit together.


Test fit with the square tube.


Cut the square tube to a 30" length and smooth out the cut end.


Bolt the top angle onto the Center Support.


I've added some more bolts to the front part of the top angle (upside down in this photo). These are to help counteract the forces caused by the extended square tube. I've positioned these new bolts so the heads are below the tube perforations as it slides. This is just like in the previous post where the first bolts which were placed above the perforations.


Using the square tube to maintain proper alignment position the bottom angle.


Clamp the angle into place until the first few bolts are added.


Use the caliper as previously described to help mark the positions for the bolt holes. Use a 16D nail to dimple the metal before you drill to help the bit stay centered.




With everything bolted into place slide the square tube back and forth to see how it moves. Without any lubrication at all it moves surprisingly smooth. And no Ka-chunk Ka-chunk.


And very importantly the side of the square tube is clear of the edge from the angles. That is needed for the next steps.


continued -
Open the pod bay doors Hal.

Once I exit Hal, this is what I do.
WWW.WVBIKE.ORG

WVvan
Explorer
Explorer
Hey Bananadanna,
Thanks for the kind words.
Methinks that 74" is a little tight for a 6'r.

I agree but since this is a regular length van I don't have a lot of length to play with. I had to make a trade off and I hope it won't be uncomfortable. A couple points in my favor. I've tent camped for years and on many a cold night I'm so curled up in my sleeping bag that a full 74" wouldn't be needed. Also I can always sleep diagonal. 85" if you measure it that way.

So the question is: why did you settle on 42"?

I measured for the sofa part first. By using my own living room sofa and moving pillows around to change the available seat width I found 20" - 21" was most comfortable for me (that's also considering in the foam thickness). Since with my design the bed width was double the seat width I used a tape measure to figure out where 40" and 42" was on my own bed. Then laid down and saw which I preferred. 42" won.

I'll be curious to see if your actuator results in correctly positioned cushions.

That makes two of use since I have no idea. I hope to know for sure by the end of this weekend. If there was a "fingers crossed" smiley face I'd put it here.

So far my reclining chair is manually operated but I may get inspired by yours!

These electric actuators are fun to play with once you get your hands on one. I'm up to five for the van already. (2-sofa, 1-TV, 2-Penthouse Top).

Dave
Open the pod bay doors Hal.

Once I exit Hal, this is what I do.
WWW.WVBIKE.ORG

bananadanna
Explorer
Explorer
WVvan wrote:
Sofa-Bed.
It's not done yet but at this point I've finally got it all figured out.
Time to start the write-up. The sofa-bed will be the most complex thing I'm going to build for the van conversion. It would have been nice to put this off until later in the project but so many other elements depend on the size and placement of the sofa-bed so it has to go first.

The usual warnings apply. I've never designed and built anything like this before. I've had to make a bunch of assumptions (wild a** guesses) and not sure how these will work out in practice. Will find out after I put it to some use.

One more point. Even though this will fold out to a bed I don't believe it's sturdy enough for any serious "bouncy-bouncy". Seeing is how I camp alone that wasn't a design consideration, unfortunately. I like how the English would phrase it, "More's the pity".

When the the sofa-bed is in the bed position it will be 74 inches long by 42 inches wide. I choose 74" long since I'm 6 ft tall (72") so that gives me room to lay flat with a couple inches extra. 42" wide because when it's in the sofa position the seat and the back will each be 21 inches wide and that felt to me like a comfortable seat size. I'm using two electric actuators to open and close the sofa-bed.

For padding I've bought 3 inch thick foam and a 2" thick memory foam topper. Not yet decided about how to cover them.

Here is the basic design I started with. I've stayed fairly close to it.




So far on this build I've made more mistakes and wrong turn than I care to admit. Here's a picture of the sofa-bed bone pile and I'm not even done yet.


I got started on this about a month and a half ago. First cut the two end pieces. They are 30" x 31". I'm using 19/32" plywood.


Made the seat and back frames from a 3/4" thick pine planks I had laying around.


Each frame is made from five pieces. Here are the dimensions of the pieces used on the back frame.


The seat frame is slightly different in size. I had some 5-1/2" wide boards on hand so instead of ripping them down to 5" I just increased the width of the frame an inch. So the back frame is 74"x20" while the seat frame is 74"x21". 20" + 21" doesn't equal 42" but the foam is cut to 42" and it can easily overhang the edge of the frame by 1".

continued.

I've been following your wonderfully illustrated thread with great interest. I also have a "bone pile" in my basement. It's great to watch the thought process as you redesign. I spent many hours sitting inside my van with mockups clamped together and suspended from ceiling straps while I said "oh!" when folding things didn't work right.

Undoubtedly too late but I'll make a few observations from my experiences. I'm 76" tall and made our bed 80" long. It's pretty key that the foot of the bed on my side overhangs free space. I find that essentially I need my extended height on tippytoe to not kick the covers off. Methinks that 74" is a little tight for a 6'r. A top duvet that Velcro's to the memory foam bottom helps a lot.

Our bed width is 30" as a daybed/single or 45" as a narrow double. Both of these widths are supplemented by a couple of inches gap on the wall side. Not only does the bed effectively feel that much wider, it is really useful being able to tuck the covers down into the gap space.

So the question is: why did you settle on 42"? (We'll skip the jokes about meeting a female camper with the nickname "Slim".)

I am currently designing a chair that folds flat. The seat and back are 20" deep and are similar to your 21" versions. My DW is 5'3" and the 20" is slightly deep for her. I am also using 3" foam and believe this buffers the knee-bend problem. A problem I'm dealing with is that if the seat/back hinge point is at the plywood base, the cushions must either move or crush. I considered a more complex pivot that is centered at the top of the 3" cushions. That implies that the seat and back support panels only come together in the flat position. My inclination is to keep my simple piano hinge and let the cushions "float" with a topside fabric "hinge" like your drawing implies. I'll be curious to see if your actuator results in correctly positioned cushions. So far my reclining chair is manually operated but I may get inspired by yours!
Dan
02 Freightliner Sprinter 2500 long tall home brew conversion

WVvan
Explorer
Explorer
Sofa-bed continued:

Going to start writing about the drive mechanism for the sofa-bed. I'm be describing the construction in a lot of detail. Will come in handy if I have to do it again since I have a bad habit of forget such things.

First up is to remake the Center Support. I didn't consider the part that overhangs the Kick Board when I cut the original one. More wood for the bone pile.

New Center Support with a notch penciled in.


A test fit of the Kick Board (vertical in this picture) and the Center Support.


I need to construct something that will both slide the Seat Platform out 12" from the front of the sofa-bed but also proved plenty of support once it's in that position. In the original plan each end of the platform will be supported by the metal angles and U-channel. The middle will be supported using a 1-1/4" square perforated steel tube.


I'll use 1-1/2" aluminum angles to guide the square tube and counterbalance the platform weight once extended. Attach the first angle to the top of the Center Support. It will look like this when done.


Position the angle so it's the thickness of the angle above the edge of the Center Support. This is so the platform bottom in the center will line up with the angles attached to the End Pieces.


Clamp the angle onto the board.


The angle will be held to the Center Support with 1/4" bolts. The heads of the bolts will be on the side of the angle that the square tube slides along. So the square tube will be rubbing against the bolt heads. I want to position the bolts so the heads aren't lined up with the perforations in the steel tube. There's a kind of a Ka-chunk Ka-chunk feeling if the heads and the holes line up as the tube slides.
Place a bolt between the center and edge of the square tube.


Use the calipers to measure the distance between the center of the bolt head and the inside edge of the angle.


Figure out where along the length of the angle I'm going to place the bolts. Then place the depth probe end of the calipers against the inside edge of the angle. Trace along the end of the calipers on each side of the depth probe.


After removing the caliper you'll have two lines that show where to center the drill hole for each bolt.


Drill away.


continued -
Open the pod bay doors Hal.

Once I exit Hal, this is what I do.
WWW.WVBIKE.ORG

WVvan
Explorer
Explorer
Thanks J,
For a piece this small, alignment wasn't that big an issue but I'll have to use the dowel rod trick when I start laminating the bigger stuff.
Open the pod bay doors Hal.

Once I exit Hal, this is what I do.
WWW.WVBIKE.ORG

jaychat2003
Explorer
Explorer
WVvan wrote:
Sofa-bed continued:



Apply the cement to both the wood and the back of the laminate. Wait till it gets tacky. When you go to place the laminate be sure to get it right the first time. Once it makes good contact, it's stuck.

-

If you place a series of dowel rods between the laminate and the wood, you can line everything up and then pull the dowel rods out one by one.

Saw that trick on one of the home fix it shows on T.V.
J

WVvan
Explorer
Explorer
Sofa-bed continued:

If I'm going to keep writing about the sofa-bed I should settle on a naming convention for the different parts. I'll try to stick to them.


Made from 19/32" plywood
Left and Right Ends - 31"h x 30"w
Kick Board - 8"h x 74"w
Center Support - 12"h x 30"w
Middle Brace - 3"h x 74"w

Made from 3/4" pine boards
Seat Platform - 74"w x 21"d
Back Platform - 74"w x 20"h

Top Brace not made yet. I'm still working on it.

The bottom of the seat platform will rest on, and rub against as it moves, a metal angle attached to the center support. To reduce friction I'm adding a layer of Formica laminate to the bottom of the platform . Here's a scrap piece of white laminate I had laying around.


I cut it using the table saw. Since this won't be visible I'm not too worried about the edge being real smooth. To glue down the laminate it's time to use the flammable contact cement I bought by mistake a couple months back.


Apply the cement to both the wood and the back of the laminate. Wait till it gets tacky. When you go to place the laminate be sure to get it right the first time. Once it makes good contact, it's stuck.


There is a device sold called a J-roller which you roll across the laminate to bond it the surface you cementing it to. I don't have one so I used a hardwood dowel like a rolling pin..


I also applied laminate to the back of the back platform. At the time I thought it would be needed. After changed my designs yet again just today it won't be needed. No harm in leaving it.


continued -
Open the pod bay doors Hal.

Once I exit Hal, this is what I do.
WWW.WVBIKE.ORG

WVvan
Explorer
Explorer
My kitchen/sink cabinets and water will go on the passenger side so I'm hoping that will provide some counter-balance to the batteries on the drivers side. I won't really know until I'm done with the build. I've wondered if some type of a air helper spring might be needed at that point. I'll keep what you say in mind.
Thanks,
Dave
Open the pod bay doors Hal.

Once I exit Hal, this is what I do.
WWW.WVBIKE.ORG

landyacht318
Explorer
Explorer
I have also built a majority of my cabinets, storage and battery boxes and 7 gallon water tank on the driver's side. I keep about 10 to 15 more psi in the DS air helper spring to offset the extra weight.

With your 4 6 volts, you will be carrying 138 more lbs than me in batteries on the driver's side.

Just something to keep in mind.

WVvan
Explorer
Explorer
Sofa-bed continued:

To join the different pieces of the sofa-bed together I'm making a bunch of 1-1/2" x 1-1/2" sized blocks. I'll call these corner blocks. Why that size? You can make two from a single 2x4 and I have a bunch of scrap 2x4's laying around.


A quick note on my build strategy. I know professional van converters will build the furniture into the van but they know what they are doing. Since I'm making it up as I go I think the best plan is to build each item in the garage and make all corrections/additions there. Disassemble all the pieces, move the pieces into the van then reassemble. Use bolts when possible to make the the pieces easier to disassemble. That also makes sense since I'm the only one here who will be moving the furniture pieces around.

Tiger and Bob could help but whenever I ask, Tiger never fails to remind me that this is a Union Shop. Since He and Bob are classified as management, they may only provide supervision. If they were to engage in any direct help that could result in a grievance being filed by the Shop Stewart. Since I'm the Shop Stewart, I can't very well argue the point with him.


Next make a 8" x 74" board for the front of the sofa-bed.


Woodworking tip. If you're using a circular saw on a not-to-wide board you can use a speed square to help make a straight cut. Place the square on the opposite side of the board so you're pulling it towards you. Hold the square tight and use it's edge to guide the circular saw as you push it across.


Cut corner blocks for the ends of the 8" x 74" board.


Before I glue the blocks to the board a quick posting about glue brushes. I use these low cost brushes for gluing. They are marked as "Acid Brushes" but I've seen them called other things. They are cheaply made, just a hollow stamped metal tube with some brushes at the end, but do the job and no big deal if you forget to wash them out. Just toss them.


Glue and screw the blocks to each end of the board. I'm using a countersink bit to pre-drill a hole in the front of the board so the screw heads will sit flush. I'll later be drilling three holes through the block for bolts so space the four screws so they won't be in the way.


Clamp the board to the two end pieces. Be sure everything lines up.


With the clamps holding the boards in place drill three holes through the end pieces and the corner blocks. Then bolt together using 5/16" bolts.




Use the angled metal bolted to the end pieces to hold the seat frame for a test fit. Notice the board I've placed under the middle of the seat frame to provide support. I made a mistake when cutting it so it is destined for the bone pile but it works OK at the moment.


Do the same for the back frame. I'm using clamps on the side to keep the back up. This is my first look at what the sofa-bed might look like. Too early in the build for a Frankenstein moment.


Add a "corner" block to support the board at the middle of the sofa. The plan is to place the battery box under the right side of the sofa so the box had to be built first so I could get it's true measurements. I use the length of the battery box to set the location of the middle support board. Then glue and screw the corner block to align with this placement. THIS IS A MISTAKE. I should have just used a couple of screws to hold the corner block into place IN CASE I HAD TO MAKE ADJUSTMENTS LATER.


Plowing straight ahead, screw and glue the middle corner block into place. Then drill the holes for the 5/16" bolts. Bolt the middle support board to the front board.


continued -
Open the pod bay doors Hal.

Once I exit Hal, this is what I do.
WWW.WVBIKE.ORG

WVvan
Explorer
Explorer
Sofa-bed continued:

With all the frame pieces cut and routed it's time to join them together. Use the biscuit cutter as described in the battery box build.




Glue and clamp.




Do the same for both frames.

Now for the 30" x 31" end supports.
Here is the original plan for the end supports and the wood frames. I thought by using a metal u-piece on the end of the boards and two metal angles bolted to the end pieces I could make something like a drawer slider. It didn't work as well as I'd hoped but I didn't know that yet.


So I went ahead and measure, cut, filed, laid out, pre-drilled, drilled and bolted on the lower angle pieces.














Then for the u-channel, carefully counter sink the holes with a drill press. The aluminium is thin so this takes a light touch.






Mount the u-channel.



Most all of this will be removed later.

continued -
Open the pod bay doors Hal.

Once I exit Hal, this is what I do.
WWW.WVBIKE.ORG

WVvan
Explorer
Explorer
Sofa-bed continued:

One problem with the router set up like this is the action happens at the bottom of the piece of wood you're moving across the table where you can't actually see it.


If you're routing along the entire length of the wood this isn't a problem. Just run the piece through. But on each of these frames there are two pieces where I need to make two separate cuts, neither of which extend to either end. There might be a better way but this is the method I can up with and it worked for me.

Rotate the router bit till one cutting edge is parallel to the direction the wood will travel. You move the wood on the table from right to left so consider this the leading edge of the bit.


Take a combination square and align one edge with the cutting bit.


Use the combination square to mark off a line across the router table.


Carefully lay a strip of masking tape along the line to make it easier to see. Then again using the combination square do the same measurements for the trailing edge of the router bit.


Lay down another strip of masking tape along the second mark. You now have a guide to the width of the router bit. The shows where it will cut.


Start by routing the three 10" long pieces of frame. The two that are 5" wide are routed along one complete edge. The 6" wide piece has both edges routed. NOTE: In this picture the three pieces are not in their correct orientation. The two end pieces should have their routed edges facing the middle.


Dry fit the frame pieces together. Letter and mark each piece so when it comes time to reassemble they will match up. There are two 74" long frame pieces. On these two pieces use a ruler to mark where the routed edges of the middle pieces line up. Draw these lines across the width of the boards.




Draw marks on both edges that are continuations of the previously drawn lines.


Now here is where it gets tricky. It's real easy to get confused at this step. Use the marks on each edge of the board to line up on the masking tape where the router cut should begin. In this picture you can see the mark is lined up with the inside edge of the left masking tape. Since the board will move from right to left this shows I'm beginning a cut.


Use the mark on the side of the board closest to the router bit to keep the board perpendicular as you slide it close to the bit before powering on the router. In this picture the bit is at the bottom.


Power on the router then slide the board against the bit and the fence. Then move it to the left. In this picture the mark is on the inside edge of the rightmost masking tape. So here I was finishing a cut.


That's it. Do the cuts on both boards of this frame then do it all over again for the other frame. I did make one mistake. There was a small knot on the edge of the board and I thought it was my mark. It wasn't. I had plowed straight past my mark while looking at the knot.

One more thing. You'll notice the router leaves a rounded corner. Will come back to that later.


continued -
Open the pod bay doors Hal.

Once I exit Hal, this is what I do.
WWW.WVBIKE.ORG