Winnebago Itasca Full Wall Slide Failure

[Doin_it]

We own a 35 foot 2014 Itasca Suncruiser that we bought new 2 years ago. Six months after purchase the full wall slide out would not fully close on the lower rear corner. We took it to a dealer about 90 miles from home. They said that the Schwintek motors were bad which caused the slide to go out crooked and bind up. When we picked it up a couple weeks later we were told several times that we must be absolutely certain that the motor home is level before putting the slides out. (Something we have always done, even before their warning.) The slides have been fine for the past 18 months. After a 6 week trip to the southwest US, we arrived home late Thursday evening. Friday morning we went out, leveled up, deployed the two small slides, and pushed the switch for the large slide. It started to go out at the front, but the back was not moving. Quickly let off switch, brought it back in, and then tried again. It went out at the front, and out at the bottom rear, but not at all at the top rear. It will now not go in at all on the bottom rear and is sticking out about 5". We have tried pushing and pulling, but it is totally jammed. I called the dealer who did the work 18 months ago. He said they will gladly do the work again and encouraged me to call Winnebago Customer Service to ask about it being paid for by the company, since it is out of warranty. Jake with Winnebago was kind, sympathetic and apologetic. He also told me that the company will stand behind it and pay for the repair again. Unfortunately, he also said that the repair will be made using the exact same motor. As many problems and issues they have had, I am just amazed that they haven't come up with a solution to the problem! I told him, and also this forum, that we love the motor home except for this issue. Would we buy another Winnebago product? Yes. Would we buy another motor home with a full wall slide? No way!

Ann and Tom from Kansas

[Bruce_Brown]

Doug,
Thats interesting too. As I'm sure you know, most units say level first then deploy the slides, and apparently on that one there may have been conflicting ideas.

Either way hopefully this thread and the ideas being batted around help the learning process and service of these.

No matter what the brand it sure does suck when something goes wrong.

[dougrainer]

Bruce Brown wrote:

Hikerdogs wrote:

eheading wrote:
I cannot believe that neither Thor or Winnebago will replace the motors with anything but the original motor. The newer units have a larger more rugged motor, as I understand it. I think it is unpardonable that the manufacturers will not install the larger motor when a smaller one fails since the replacement will eventually fail also.

And regarding the issue of a full slide, it is a Schwintek problem, not a full slide problem. We have a full slide in our Newmar motorhome and it has worked flawlessly for over 2 years now.

Ed Headington

The problem I many cases is a combination of the slide, how it was installed, and the Schwintec system. A major part of the problem with the full wall slide in our 2013 Adventurer was the way it was installed. It wasn't fully supported on the kitchen island which is a good four feet long and cantilevered from the wall.

In addition the slide was not installed square with the opening in the wall. It was high on the rear causing the gear mechanism on the top front to bind the and the lower front gear mechanism have minimal engagement between the gear and the rack. The lower front would continually go out of time because the minimal gear engagement would allow the gear to jump teeth on the rack. The Schwintec system requires much closer installation tolerances to operate properly.

Our past HWH system didn't require close tolerances between the coach body and the slide to operate properly. As long as there was no interference between the two it would go in and out with no problems.

The Schwintec system on the other hand requires far closer and consistent tolerances side to side and top to bottom. The gears on the motor shafts (mounted on the coach body) and the racks (mounted on the slide) must remain in contact and not bind the entire distance the slide moves. This system requires far more attention to detail at installation than the previous HWH system.

Very good explanation.

Maybe a better response from me would have been it's a Schwintec limitation issue. In a perfect world it works, let something be off even a little and things go bad fast.

IMO it's a very, very poor system to install in a house that moves down the road at 65 MPH, over many bumps and potholes, that is then parked on unlevel ground.

At work I often say there is a lot of difference between the lab and reality. I'm sure the Schwintec system works wonderfully in the lab; the reality is it's a pretty fragile system with a lot of limitations. To me it would be a deal breaker.

Schwintek systems are more problem prone due to HOW the Sidewall of the RV is framed and the inside structure rigid. We had a 2015 Jayco 37' 5th wheel with a Schwintek slide just above and forward of the pass side axle. The customer kept complaining about erratic operation. Yet, we could never get it to fail. Jayco authorized a complete new rack system and we replaced it and still could get no failure, but the customer stated it would fail in the field. It turned out he had the Atwood 6 leg auto leveing system and he was following the owners manual---LEVEL the RV then extend and retract the slides. Well, we never leveled the system on our testing. It turned out that the center pass side leveling jack when deployed was warping the area under this slide room and the jack was directly below and center of the side wall cut out. That slight bend caused the Scwintek system to be in a bind and caused it to not run fully in or out. The solution was to extend the slide outs, THEN level the RV. Customer has had no problems since. Doug

[krivanj]

My two buddies each have Schwintek slide systems in the smaller two slides in a 2014 Tiffin Phaeton 36 and a 2016 Tiffin Bus 45. Both have already had at least one slide failure in each coach. (The Phaeton has had two.) Both have been very careful since the beginning to only bring them in or out with full power and level. Just sayin'...

[mc_cc]

What model years is the Schwintek rail system installed on the Winnebago products? I have an aunt who has a 2011 Winnebago product with, I think, a full wall slide.

[RVChippys]

When my full wall slide had to be replaced after my 2014 Itasca Suncruiser was out of warranty,it pushed me to get a warranty for 6 years regardless of cost.A $2800 lesson besides other things that consistently fail on this coach.Very disappointed with quality of my coach.

[Hikerdogs]

gonesouth wrote:
Clearly it's a Winnebago problem. I've never heard of a hydraulic leveling sytem that didn't torgue the frame......therefore binding the frame with a low tolerance slide system. Sloppy work by Winnebago, IMHO. It's what happens when the accountants run the company.

If you follow any of the forums you would realize the slide problem is not specific to Winnebago products. Many other brands use the same system and have encountered similar problems.

Most of the problems come down to the fact that the Schwintec slide system requires much closer and far more consistent tolerances than those needed by previous systems. Unfortunately it took all the coach builders some time to realize this. By the time they realized they had a significant problem there were several thousand coaches with this system on the road. Given the fact that most motorhomes are used on an intermittent basis it took an extended amount of time for the gravity of the problem to come to light.

Since Winnebago is standing behind their products and repairing the problem on their dime it shows they are a quality company and they value their customers. If the "bean counters" were in control as you say they wouldn't be repairing 3 and 4 year old coaches at no cost to their customers.

It's unfortunate that the proper amount of due diligence wasn't completed before switching to the system. Hopefully they learned a lesson and will properly research and test future systems before implementing them.

[gonesouth]

Clearly it's a Winnebago problem. I've never heard of a hydraulic leveling sytem that didn't torgue the frame......therefore binding the frame with a low tolerance slide system. Sloppy work by Winnebago, IMHO. It's what happens when the accountants run the company.

[Bruce_Brown]

^^^ Great post and makes a LOT of sense!

Thanks for sharing.

[sloman2001]

I have the Winnebago Journey that uses the Schwintek slide system slide on a full wall slide. Fortunately, I have not had any issues with it YET, but it sounds like it is only a matter of time. I did attend the Winnebago Rally last year in Forest City and spoke with the rep from Lippert about the system. The key to success, at least according to him, was proper lubrication and adjusting it periodically. I have done that and have had no issues. This is what I was told to do.

First, I use CRC lubricant with PTFE (aerosol comes in a green can) to lubricate the top and bottom gears of the slides. The lubricant MUST have PTFE in it. I found this online at WW Grainger. I could have had it shipped to the house, but I choose to pick it up free from the local Grainger store and avoid the delivery charge. I lubricate both the top and bottom gears on the motors by sliding the small red extension tube from the can (similar to the tube that comes with WD40) into the location where the motors are. This is just above the gears that are permanently located on the exterior slide wall. Then, after all 4 motor/gears (top & bottom on each side of the slide out) are lubricated, I fully run the slide in and out to help get the lubrication worked in.

Second, you need to adjust the slide. Note that what I was told will contradict what others have said about stopping the slide in partial retraction/extension. I was told to run the slide either in or out (depending on the slides current position), only about 1 inch. Then either retract or extend back to your starting position. For clarity, note that you will only be moving the slide in or out only about an inch each way. Do this 3 times. You may hear the motor slightly run about 1 second when the slide is in or out after you let up on the switch. This is normal and is the syncing process Schwintek uses to keep the motors in sync. The system, according to the rep, counts the revolutions of the motors. If they get out of sync for whatever reason, this will adjust them. My slide was very noisy while running down the road, and this process eliminated the noise. The slide sounded like it was going to fall out.

I do this on my 2 Schwintek slides, so far, with no problems.

I have only owned the MH for about 18 months, so this may or may not be helping, but to me, it is a "feel good" thing to do.

Hope this helps someone!

Tom

[vjstangelo]

On another rv blog, there are a number of discussions on Thor's new 3 Trax drive system. So far there are not many complaints from owners of same, and a general satisfaction with the new system.

Will it hold up over he long haul is unknown.

Anyone with the 3 Trax is welcome to chime in...

[Bruce_Brown]

Hikerdogs wrote:

eheading wrote:
I cannot believe that neither Thor or Winnebago will replace the motors with anything but the original motor. The newer units have a larger more rugged motor, as I understand it. I think it is unpardonable that the manufacturers will not install the larger motor when a smaller one fails since the replacement will eventually fail also.

And regarding the issue of a full slide, it is a Schwintek problem, not a full slide problem. We have a full slide in our Newmar motorhome and it has worked flawlessly for over 2 years now.

Ed Headington

The problem I many cases is a combination of the slide, how it was installed, and the Schwintec system. A major part of the problem with the full wall slide in our 2013 Adventurer was the way it was installed. It wasn't fully supported on the kitchen island which is a good four feet long and cantilevered from the wall.

In addition the slide was not installed square with the opening in the wall. It was high on the rear causing the gear mechanism on the top front to bind the and the lower front gear mechanism have minimal engagement between the gear and the rack. The lower front would continually go out of time because the minimal gear engagement would allow the gear to jump teeth on the rack. The Schwintec system requires much closer installation tolerances to operate properly.

Our past HWH system didn't require close tolerances between the coach body and the slide to operate properly. As long as there was no interference between the two it would go in and out with no problems.

The Schwintec system on the other hand requires far closer and consistent tolerances side to side and top to bottom. The gears on the motor shafts (mounted on the coach body) and the racks (mounted on the slide) must remain in contact and not bind the entire distance the slide moves. This system requires far more attention to detail at installation than the previous HWH system.

Very good explanation.

Maybe a better response from me would have been it's a Schwintec limitation issue. In a perfect world it works, let something be off even a little and things go bad fast.

IMO it's a very, very poor system to install in a house that moves down the road at 65 MPH, over many bumps and potholes, that is then parked on unlevel ground.

At work I often say there is a lot of difference between the lab and reality. I'm sure the Schwintec system works wonderfully in the lab; the reality is it's a pretty fragile system with a lot of limitations. To me it would be a deal breaker.

[bluwtr49]

Regarding the "being perfectly level" instructions from the dealer;

You might ask them to define that a bit better. There is perfectly level using the leveling system and perfectly square which is the frame relationship.

On many coaches they want square vs. level because the act of leveling can easily torque the frame out of square which can cause a slide to bind. I would think a full side slide would be very sensitive to a torqued frame.

[Hikerdogs]

eheading wrote:
I cannot believe that neither Thor or Winnebago will replace the motors with anything but the original motor. The newer units have a larger more rugged motor, as I understand it. I think it is unpardonable that the manufacturers will not install the larger motor when a smaller one fails since the replacement will eventually fail also.

And regarding the issue of a full slide, it is a Schwintek problem, not a full slide problem. We have a full slide in our Newmar motorhome and it has worked flawlessly for over 2 years now.

Ed Headington

The problem I many cases is a combination of the slide, how it was installed, and the Schwintec system. A major part of the problem with the full wall slide in our 2013 Adventurer was the way it was installed. It wasn't fully supported on the kitchen island which is a good four feet long and cantilevered from the wall.

In addition the slide was not installed square with the opening in the wall. It was high on the rear causing the gear mechanism on the top front to bind the and the lower front gear mechanism have minimal engagement between the gear and the rack. The lower front would continually go out of time because the minimal gear engagement would allow the gear to jump teeth on the rack. The Schwintec system requires much closer installation tolerances to operate properly.

Our past HWH system didn't require close tolerances between the coach body and the slide to operate properly. As long as there was no interference between the two it would go in and out with no problems.

The Schwintec system on the other hand requires far closer and consistent tolerances side to side and top to bottom. The gears on the motor shafts (mounted on the coach body) and the racks (mounted on the slide) must remain in contact and not bind the entire distance the slide moves. This system requires far more attention to detail at installation than the previous HWH system.

[wallynm]

It is a Newmar.

eheading wrote:
I cannot believe that neither Thor or Winnebago will replace the motors with anything but the original motor. The newer units have a larger more rugged motor, as I understand it. I think it is unpardonable that the manufacturers will not install the larger motor when a smaller one fails since the replacement will eventually fail also.

And regarding the issue of a full slide, it is a Schwintek problem, not a full slide problem. We have a full slide in our Newmar motorhome and it has worked flawlessly for over 2 years now.

Ed Headington