RV Security System

[tboyer55101]

Hello everyone,

I recently purchased a very nice semi-custom wheeled ice-house that is also a summer crossover RV. I am both worried about leaving the RV in storage and to some degree when I am in it. I don't like the package systems that I've seen online mainly because the power consumption requires the RV is AC plugged at (nearly) all times (can't do that in the storage yard) and also the high monthly network cost.

I'm thinking about designing and selling a better mousetrap, in this case an RV security system. I'm a wireless hardware design engineer in real-life.

Here's what technology I think I can reasonably field - Is it worth investing retirement savings into?

- Tamper, Intrusion and tow-away detect alarms
- email alerts on alarm
- GPS breadcrumb tracking on alarm (Insurance discount)
- Photo captures of intrusion
- Uses IoT or device cloud network (cheaper)
- Certified access thru major carriers (ATT or Verizon)
- Will monitor continuously off RV battery 200+ days (unique)
- Recharge automatically when under-tow or AC applied
- Monitor Battery level
- daily alert on <20% battery
- Internal backup battery switch-over on tamper detect
- Run 5+ days on internal battery
- External antennas for better range
- Switch to internal antenna(s)on tamper
- Stores data while out of cellular coverage
- Auto update of stored data when coverage avail.
- Panic button (unique)
- 2-way voice communication on panic button (unique)
- Capture current photo from phone app
- Check current location from phone app
- Locations shown on Google Maps
- In Storage alarm mode (intrusion, tamper, GPS, Cameras)
- Under-Tow alarm mode (intrusion, tamper, GPS)
- Owner Occupied alarm mode (intrusion, tamper, panic button)
- audible alarm and running light flash
- smoke detect
- remote thermostat control with cell app
- monitor temperature/fuel levels, cell app
- purchased and installed @ a dealer
- Suggested retail list price less than $1000
- Monthly access - less than $20/month

Thoughts and honest feedback is very welcome! Would anyone buy this? What would need to be different to make you say "WOW, I gotta have THAT"!

Thank you - Thomas

[mlts22]

The alarm sounds interesting and high tech and it may be useful for some... but for me, it is pointless:

If my rig is being stored, the cameras will get a picture of some guys with hoodies kicking in the door, grabbing stuff, and running off, all within 30-60 seconds at the most. The alarm will do nothing other than maybe goad the meth-heads into smashing a window or a wall out of spite, and by the time the law arrives, the bad guys will be well far away.

Even if the bad guys are caught, here in Texas burglary of a vehicle (A RV counts as a vehicle, not a residence if unoccupied) is a misdemeanor (unless it is a railroad car... then it is a felony here in Texas), so at worst, the person spends a night in the county can, and is back on the street again. Yes, Texans tend to be armed, but not many will risk going to jail for firing a gun in a city unless it is an act of self defense... and often the bad guys will shoot back.

This alarm won't provide me with any real security, and IoT devices allow the RV to be attacked from anywhere on the Internet... so no on that. The gauges and such are interesting, but the security risk involved with putting a device on the Internet to upload those figures is too much.

Instead, I prefer to use more effective protection for my rig:

1: It is insured. If it winds up a meth lab, theft insurance and gap insurance deal with it.

2: I use BAL X-chocks, security chains and Abus locks on the wheels, then a token lock on the hitch. The lock on the hitch is worthless but it makes a would-be trailer thief stop and notice the wheels are well secured. Yes, they can pull out an angle grinder, but my goal is not to be the fastest in the herd, but not to be the slowest in front of the bear.

3: I store it well out of Austin, 20-30 miles away from any significant highways, and miles from a paved road, behind a locked gate. Out of sight, out of mind... and not even the meth-heads will jump a fence in rural Texas.

If I -had- to store the rig in Austin, I'd probably buy an alarm that uses strobe lights and fog like the "dragon" car alarm that is on my old F-150. The fog is harmless, but one isn't going to see very far while standing in it, and the strobe lights don't help either. This not just denies a burglar access... but fog billowing out of a vehicle gets a lot more attention than just another audible siren going off.

PS: I love those black GSDs in the above picture. I'd love to adopt one eventually once life settles down for me.

[Dtank]

tboyer55101 wrote:
Hello everyone,

I recently purchased a very nice semi-custom wheeled ice-house that is also a summer crossover RV. I am both worried about leaving the RV in storage and to some degree when I am in it. I don't like the package systems that I've seen online mainly because the power consumption requires the RV is AC plugged at (nearly) all times (can't do that in the storage yard) and also the high monthly network cost.

I'm thinking about designing and selling a better mousetrap, in this case an RV security system. I'm a wireless hardware design engineer in real-life.

Here's what technology I think I can reasonably field - Is it worth investing retirement savings into?

- Tamper, Intrusion and tow-away detect alarms
- email alerts on alarm
- GPS breadcrumb tracking on alarm (Insurance discount)
- Photo captures of intrusion
- Uses IoT or device cloud network (cheaper)
- Certified access thru major carriers (ATT or Verizon)
- Will monitor continuously off RV battery 200+ days (unique)
- Recharge automatically when under-tow or AC applied
- Monitor Battery level
- daily alert on <20% battery
- Internal backup battery switch-over on tamper detect
- Run 5+ days on internal battery
- External antennas for better range
- Switch to internal antenna(s)on tamper
- Stores data while out of cellular coverage
- Auto update of stored data when coverage avail.
- Panic button (unique)
- 2-way voice communication on panic button (unique)
- Capture current photo from phone app
- Check current location from phone app
- Locations shown on Google Maps
- In Storage alarm mode (intrusion, tamper, GPS, Cameras)
- Under-Tow alarm mode (intrusion, tamper, GPS)
- Owner Occupied alarm mode (intrusion, tamper, panic button)
- audible alarm and running light flash
- smoke detect
- remote thermostat control with cell app
- monitor temperature/fuel levels, cell app
- purchased and installed @ a dealer
- Suggested retail list price less than $1000
- Monthly access - less than $20/month

Thoughts and honest feedback is very welcome! Would anyone buy this? What would need to be different to make you say "WOW, I gotta have THAT"!

Thank you - Thomas

Q. "Is it worth investing retirement savings into?"

A. Resounding...NO !!

You asked.

.

[Bobbo]

Even our friends are afraid to knock on our door. They call on the cell phone when they reach our door.

The German Shepherd in the middle is sitting down on the cab floor. He is that tall. The one on the right is on the seat. He is my small one. At 80 pounds.

[Jframpey]

I'd be interested... If I could DIY install and price was <$500, and monitoring was $10/mo.

[tboyer55101]

ctpres - interesting thought on the construction site application. No doubt it will be MUCH easier to modularize a box than to string cable in the walls of an RV!

I'll have to do testing on the claxon to see if there is an effect on the P/S when it's blasting away.

With regard to the RMR, the business plan is to split that with the dealer. Dealers get a monthly commission check for as long as the customer remains on the network. Dealer motivation and retention.

[ctpres]

I think your RV market is way to small. There are many other applications with no local power, such as construction site equipment and material protection - build the BOX and sell it and add packages with different levels of security and monitoring. Discuss your project with a couple independent security equipment rep's. One good one in the average state could be your sales force. I am sure you know the real $ is going to be in the RMR if you can get it going. Suggest you build in a delay between signals sent and local annunciation. If you try to get message out at same time as audible there may not be enough power for the message. Now I can take my nap.

[tboyer55101]

ctpres - It's there "audible alarm and running light flash". The system has i/o's that can drive relays/horn. Once the system goes into an active alarm all bets are off on power consumption - it uses all it needs. It sips current only when it is in storage monitoring with nothing going on.

I agree that the hard-wired install is a drag but it the only way that I know to keep the consumption acceptable. Might be a deal breaker.

There is a company in WI that does this with a WiFi system (like a few here have suggested) but it will only run for a week or so on one "normal" camper battery. They stipulate that there needs to be an external power source feeding it. I think they also use a regular cell account rather than an M2M device cloud connection - the monthly connection fee is pretty steep.

Thanks!

[ctpres]

ctpres wrote:
B&E - Make noise and lots of it. That requires lots of power. did not see that covered.
Rule number one in burglar alarms: get perp out of premise ASAP with noise, smoke or whatever to minimize loss.
You mentioned intrusion but did not say how - that is a subject by itself with lots of technology and successful detection - especially in an un-airconditioned environment is difficult.
Video picture quality you will probably get will not be good enough for court. Not to mention more and more bad guys are learning the value of simply things like hoodies to hide from cameras.
Hardwireing in an RV is going to get VERY expensive. Technology you talk about is going to be way over the head of most RV'ers and most consumers won't buy something they can't understand.
Find several medium size local independent alarm co's and see if they want to be dealers for test market. Just talking to them should be helpful. I think the installation process is going to be your biggest problem. I have forty plus years in security and if you knocked on my co. door, we would not be interested. Learning/training curve to big for such a small market. BTW you do have good patentable ideas that might be of interest to alarm equipment manufacturers - bet you could make more money that way. But that's just my opinion

[ctpres]

B&E - Make noise and lots of it. That requires lots of power. did not see that covered.
Rule number one in burglar alarms: get perp out of premise ASAP with noise, smoke or whatever to minimize loss.
You mentioned intrusion but did not say how - that is a subject by itself with lots of technology and successful detection - especially in an un-airconditioned environment is difficult.
Video picture quality you will probably get will not be good enough for court. Not to mention more and more bad guys are learning the value of simply things like hoodies to hide from cameras.
Hardwireing in an RV is going to get VERY expensive. Technology you talk about is going to be way over the head of most RV'ers and most consumers won't buy something they can't understand.
Find several medium size local independent alarm co's and see if they want to be dealers for test market. Just talking to them should be helpful. I think the installation process is going to be your biggest problem. I have forty plus years in security and if you knocked on my co. door, we would not be interested. Learning/training curve to big for such a small market. But that's just my opinion

[tboyer55101]

Gdetrailer - I really appreciate the technical analysis but I'm really not here for that. Clearly, the techniques that you've outlined don't deliver the results - you're right. But there is another way. Please don't be angry, I don't mean to offend.

Wa8yxm - Yes, it functions very similar to that. I've chose a burst of still photos rather than real video to save data. The monthly plan cost is very data dependent. The system will pause and then burst again until the motion detect is null. The system consumes much more power during an active alarm.

Incidentally, the design group that I manage in my real-life (paying) career designed the ODB-II tracking module that you mentioned. Not specifically the one for Verizon but one used for insurance companies and car rental companies.

What I really need to know is if anyone would buy it? So far it is a zero.

[wa8yxm]

Ok, GPS tracking... Only applies if the RV is moving,,, Most RV issues in storage lots are break in.

There are many Cellular based security systems.. They call you if there is a problem using Cell Tecnhology

For security (intruder detection) understand that by the time the alarm sounds it is TOO LATE, but that may be coverable (Police response will not get there till they theives have split)

My Recommendation:

Untrasonic or other motion alarm, tripping a hidden video recorder (They make some very scary cameras) feeding an OFF SITE recorder if possible.. Or a well secured recorder within the rig

A Wi-Fi Hot spot to broadcast the alarm

Verizon has a module that plugs into the OBD-II port,,it does suck some battery power but if you can use SOLAR it should cover it

Features: Hot Spot.. GPS Tracker,, OBD-II Sender,,, Wi-Fi and Blue-Tooth

I checked with T-mobile... They say they have it too
And that means AT&T will have it as well.

Couple something like this with the alarm system.

Hand the Police full color prints of the thieves.

(Short Story.. Man got mugged, Called cops, they ask for description, he told them He could do better if they dropped by his "Office" a few hours later.

Seems his occupation is a portrait painter. But he specializes in folks who can not "Sit".. He has 'em come by (or goes to them) Poses them,, Says "Have a nice day" or "I will call you when it's ready" and then he paints the portrait,,, From Memory.

He handed the detective a full color portrait (Now hangs in the chief's office)

They took one look at it and ..... The Mugger suddenly began hanging out close to his portrait... (IN the nearby Jail).

[Gdetrailer]

tboyer55101 wrote:
Everyone - Thanks for the feedback. I really do appreciate it, even the negative.

I do realize that a home monitoring system can be installed in n RV but not run off the battery (for any amount of time).

This system draws 7-9mA @12V in its armed state (no active alarms). So a (healthy) 70A hour battery will last about 290 days before it gets to 20%. Derate it 70%, a typical RV battery will last about 200 days.

The list is not a "dream list" - I actually have prototype hardware currently in production in Asia. I'll have 4 units within a month. It will take some time after that for the software integration and android app to be written. Then design validation testing. The real expense (at least for me) is sales, marketing and promotion. I'll have to hire that out.

To help explain it; there is an engineering penalty for the low power consumption. The sensors have to be hard wired. The motion detect sensor of a PIR camera only draws about 1mA - When you make the camera wireless, it becomes a power hog. The switch sensors take no power when they are hard wired. There is no WiFi or wireless network running within the unit.

There is another processor and cell module "trick" going on as well that saves a very large amount of power budget.

LoJack is a good competitive gps example but it is otherwise featureless.

This would not have to be a dealer installed product - I would just be more successful with the selling power of a dealer network. If I sell the system myself there would be no dealer margin (and therefore cheaper) but also very limited product exposure.

Thanks again! If nothing else I will have a really kick-butt system in my own camper that I've spent a LOT of hours on. HA HA

I CALL BS on the 7ma-9ma @12v..

With the following features it is impossible to do..

"Uses IoT or device cloud network (cheaper)
Certified access thru major carriers (ATT or Verizon)
Monitor Battery level
Stores data while out of cellular coverage
Auto update of stored data when coverage avail.
Capture current photo from phone app
Check current location from phone app"

ALL of the above "features" WILL REQUIRE Wifi and or CELL INTERNET DATA CONNECTION..

Cell phones do not "sleep" period.. As long as the cellphone is TURNED ON, it is constantly communicating with the cell towers.. This communication means it is transmitting and receiving cell data ALL the time..

That means it IS USING battery power..

By the way, the weaker the cell tower signal the MORE POWER the cell phone uses since it will increase the transmit power until it maxes out..

If you haven't noticed modern day cellphones HOG POWER.. They will easily drain the built in battery in DAYS when turned on and the built in battery is typically a 2400 ma (2.4 Ahr) battery.

Even if you based your "device" on say a "PI" computer it will easily use 100ma or more just sitting around waiting for something to happen..

Just because your "sensors" are hard wired to your alarm it doesn't mean OTHER parts of the alarm system isn't using power..

Pretty much every "feature" you have listed will require a computer plus a program to gather and interpret all the inputs, poll the inputs and await your commands via remote wireless system..

Your "device" WILL need it's OWN battery system AND SOLAR PANELS in order to operate independently without shore power.. Either that or your going to have to disconnect the RV "house" from the RV battery system and STILL NEED A SOLAR PANEL SYSTEM..

Then you want to have a "dealer" install network? Good luck on that.. Your gonna have to BUILD THAT FROM SCRATCH and that takes time and money..

So far you are batting zero on "demand" from the comments I see on this thread, you have designed a device which is too expensive, too complicated (therefore more likely to break or have support issues) has no dealer support, has no real world need..

It is something YOU "wanted" and not everything we dream up is something OTHERS want or are willing to pay for..

[tboyer55101]

Everyone - Thanks for the feedback. I really do appreciate it, even the negative.

I do realize that a home monitoring system can be installed in n RV but not run off the battery (for any amount of time).

This system draws 7-9mA @12V in its armed state (no active alarms). So a (healthy) 70A hour battery will last about 290 days before it gets to 20%. Derate it 70%, a typical RV battery will last about 200 days.

The list is not a "dream list" - I actually have prototype hardware currently in production in Asia. I'll have 4 units within a month. It will take some time after that for the software integration and android app to be written. Then design validation testing. The real expense (at least for me) is sales, marketing and promotion. I'll have to hire that out.

To help explain it; there is an engineering penalty for the low power consumption. The sensors have to be hard wired. The motion detect sensor of a PIR camera only draws about 1mA - When you make the camera wireless, it becomes a power hog. The switch sensors take no power when they are hard wired. There is no WiFi or wireless network running within the unit.

There is another processor and cell module "trick" going on as well that saves a very large amount of power budget.

LoJack is a good competitive gps example but it is otherwise featureless.

This would not have to be a dealer installed product - I would just be more successful with the selling power of a dealer network. If I sell the system myself there would be no dealer margin (and therefore cheaper) but also very limited product exposure.

Thanks again! If nothing else I will have a really kick-butt system in my own camper that I've spent a LOT of hours on. HA HA

[ksg5000]

You want just enough deterrence to make the other guys RV an easier target - maybe a simple battery powered flashing light combined with an alarm sticker? High tech alarm system will deplete your wallet and let you know that your rigs been broken into - you can get that for free if your patient.