Windows 10 Update Considerations

[CA_Traveler]

I haven’t installed Windows 10 (W10) preferring to wait for more stable releases. But whatever you decide I recommend extensive research because W10 may not be what you expect or want.

My main concern is privacy. W10 privacy features are turned on by default and some cannot be turned off. I don’t like the unrestricted data transfers to MS.

As an RVer my second main concern about W10 is my capped data and internet bandwidth with my Verizon MiFi. W10 has mandatory updates which restrict me from delaying the updates out a month or two as I approach the limit for the current month. I do keep my systems updated within this restriction. Note that the data restriction does not apply if I use someone else’s WiFi for which security may be a concern.

Microsoft (MS) has a history of multiple large updates per month plus some are a disaster so I never immediately update. W10 has some capability of update delay but not enough for me.

My third main concern is upgrading my two current laptops to W10. The upgrade for each laptop involves down loading about 3GB of data. Then if I want a clean install I have to download W10 a second time.

Another major concern is that upgrading all too often fails. There are credible reports in the media to this effect. Also updated drivers for printers, display hardware etc for W10 may not or ever be available.

For many W10 is a good experience and that is great but for others not so great. The first major major update has just started (11/15) which should improve W10.

My laptops don’t have touch screens and they are not a tablet or phone. And I don’t want the tile style Start window. I would install a vendor program that allows the use of a more traditional Start window when/if I start using W10.

MS is moving towards cloud based paid subscription software like office and data storage. This approach due to privacy and increased access time do not appeal to me.

There may be fewer issues with new hardware and W10 installed. That does not mean that older devices like printers will work however and you may also be exposed to future update problems.

I have other concerns about W10 and I can only repeat to do your own research. A free upgrade does not mean that there will be no costs involved.

[docj]

Gdetrailer wrote:

I don't call "Cnet" a "reliable source.

Will you accept Microsoft as an authority on Windows? Here's a link to a Microsoft Answers URL that provides the same information cited by CNET.

Certificate of Authenticity

A couple of posts ago you insisted I was 100% incorrect in saying that pc's were being delivered without Windows stickers; now it appears you admit that the major OEMs can do this. Maybe this stuff is your job, but that doesn't make everyone else stupid compared to you. Some of us do know how to do a Google search.

[Gdetrailer]

docj wrote:
Windows 8 moves to BIOS-based product keys

Gdetrailer wrote:

Docj's post is 100% incorrect.

The program Docj linked does not look into the BIOS for the key, it actually looks into WINDOWS that is installed on the PC.

That program is useful ONLY if your COA with the license key is missing or destroyed to the point you can not read it.

That link also states that the COA is not included with new PCs, that is not true either.. That would be a violation of the manufacturers OEM licensing agreement with MS if they do not include the COA sticker on each PC they load Windows..

Here's an article that explains that Windows 8 pc's do not come with product keys because that information is embedded in the BIOS. I was posting something that I had read in multiple sources. If you disagree with this article please provide your sources.

Windows 8 moves to BIOS-based product keys

To save you time here's the relevant quote:

"One of the improvements Microsoft is making to Activation 3.0 for newly built machines that come preloaded with Windows 8, you won't have a COA (Certificate of Authenticity) sticker attached to the machine anymore. Instead, this will be embedded in the BIOS. This will avoid product keys from being compromised and OEMs will buy what they need."

My Toshiba Satellite purchased last year did not come with a Windows sticker or any other authentication information.

I don't call "Cnet" a "reliable source.

MS may have made "allowances" to "omit" a physical COA on Win8 the KEYS which are the TWENTY FIVE DIGITS ARE NOT INSTALLED IN THE BIOS.

What Cnet is referring to is a SPECIAL SERIAL NUMBER CODE that ONLY OEMS are allowed to use are installed into the BIOS..

The OEMs use a special utility which is provided by MS only after they have agreed to all the requirements MS demands for this program.. The utility takes snap shot of the OS install and the hardware it is installed on and creates a serial number string..

This serial number then must be embedded into the BIOS of all the PCs the OEM builds. This LOCKS the OS to the PC manufacturer brand of hardware.

The OEM then builds their own restore disc which is locked to that serial number string in the BIOS..

I REPEAT, THE 25 digit license code IS NOT EMBEDDED INTO THE BIOS.

As long as you use the provided restore disc you will never need to enter the 25 digit license key OR activate the OS..

ONLY OEM PC builders like Dell, HP and perhaps a few smaller ones can skip the part of having the end user type in the 25 digit license key and the activation. For those it does make sense to allow no physical license to be attached.. OEMs MUST manage their own licensing through MS reseller account, they must also keep track of all the PCs they install the OS on in case MS decides to audit them..

IF you buy a RETAIL or AFTERMARKET OEM disc you WILL GET A COA with a 25 digit license key..

I know this since it is part of my job were I work to know and understand MS licensing for OEM embedded products..

[docj]

Windows 8 moves to BIOS-based product keys

Gdetrailer wrote:

Docj's post is 100% incorrect.

The program Docj linked does not look into the BIOS for the key, it actually looks into WINDOWS that is installed on the PC.

That program is useful ONLY if your COA with the license key is missing or destroyed to the point you can not read it.

That link also states that the COA is not included with new PCs, that is not true either.. That would be a violation of the manufacturers OEM licensing agreement with MS if they do not include the COA sticker on each PC they load Windows..

Here's an article that explains that Windows 8 pc's do not come with product keys because that information is embedded in the BIOS. I was posting something that I had read in multiple sources. If you disagree with this article please provide your sources.

Windows 8 moves to BIOS-based product keys

To save you time here's the relevant quote:

"One of the improvements Microsoft is making to Activation 3.0 for newly built machines that come preloaded with Windows 8, you won't have a COA (Certificate of Authenticity) sticker attached to the machine anymore. Instead, this will be embedded in the BIOS. This will avoid product keys from being compromised and OEMs will buy what they need."

My Toshiba Satellite purchased last year did not come with a Windows sticker or any other authentication information.

[Gdetrailer]

CA Traveler wrote:

docj wrote:
The product key for many newer computers is embedded in ROM. In those cases you don't need to do anything to get a fully authorized installation regardless of whether you are upgrading or going backward. To check to see if your computer has an embedded product key you can use this tool: NeoSmart

OK But I remain skeptical that MS will allow validation of whatever OS is currently being installed while invalidating the prior install. Especially with regards to the free W10 upgrade that uses the existing W7/W8 key. They certainly don't want one key used in 2 computers at the same time.

ie I upgrade to the free W10. I then install W7 on the same or different computer. Which one is now validated?

Docj's post is 100% incorrect.

The program Docj linked does not look into the BIOS for the key, it actually looks into WINDOWS that is installed on the PC.

That program is useful ONLY if your COA with the license key is missing or destroyed to the point you can not read it.

That link also states that the COA is not included with new PCs, that is not true either.. That would be a violation of the manufacturers OEM licensing agreement with MS if they do not include the COA sticker on each PC they load Windows..

OEMs like Dell or HP since they do a large volume of PCs are able to setup their PCs as preactivated.. Top do that they must have a special program from MS to generate a special code that is embedded into the BIOS.. This code tells Windows that it is activated and it will not trip the activation prompt.. The OEM then agrees to do ALL the "support" for that copy of Windows.

For Win10 upgrade to work it only NEEDS to find an activated copy of Win7 or Win8.1 (XP and Win 8.0 does not qualify) on your PC..

Not sure as to what happens to your old Win license but I know folks HAVE been able to reinstall their old versions successfully and also folks have successfully loaded Win10 upgrade on a clean install.. I would suggest you do some searching on the internet..

Here is just one of the many sites that you might find helpful in your quest of answers..

DSLREPORTS.COM

Another place I find lots of good PC info is

VIDEOHELP.COM

They have a bunch of Win10 stickies that might be helpful..

[CA_Traveler]

docj wrote:
The product key for many newer computers is embedded in ROM. In those cases you don't need to do anything to get a fully authorized installation regardless of whether you are upgrading or going backward. To check to see if your computer has an embedded product key you can use this tool: NeoSmart

OK But I remain skeptical that MS will allow validation of whatever OS is currently being installed while invalidating the prior install. Especially with regards to the free W10 upgrade that uses the existing W7/W8 key. They certainly don't want one key used in 2 computers at the same time.

ie I upgrade to the free W10. I then install W7 on the same or different computer. Which one is now validated?

[Lantley]

I upgraded my laptop to Win 10 after avoiding the prompts for a while.
The upgrade process was very smooth. Honestly the smoothest I have ever encountered. No drivers issues. The upgrade went well.
While I still have XP on my main machine avoiding the whole upgrade issue is futile.
Sooner or later the computer will become obsolete without upgrading. As mentioned in a prior your options eventually become upgrade or by a new machine. Yes you can delay but ultimat. Microsoft controls our PC's more than we care to admit

[Irover]

I went onto the manufactuers website to see if my model # was ready for Win/10 My Acer and Gateway work fine. The Dell website for my model is not!

[SCR]

I'll be with Win 7 on both systems until either I or Win 7 reaches EOL in 2020. If Win 7 gets there first and I remember how to turn on a computer, and why I did, I'll deal with it then.

Unless Windows 10 makes some extreme improvements by then I'll probably look at other alternatives. My computer needs are pretty simple and Windows 10 in it's present state doesn't offer me anything I need.

[docj]

CA Traveler wrote:
Doing a clean install of W10 involves using my W7 product key. What happens if I want to return to W7 with a clean W7 install?

I'd guess there will be activation problems because the W7 product key has been used for W10.

Likewise what happens if I want to return to W7 using a disk image?

I haven't seen answers to these questions. And with the MS push for W10 I'm at least suspicious of returning back to the prior version. All of this is tied to the free upgrade where the prior W7/W8 product key becomes the W10 product key.

The product key for many newer computers is embedded in ROM. In those cases you don't need to do anything to get a fully authorized installation regardless of whether you are upgrading or going backward. To check to see if your computer has an embedded product key you can use this tool: NeoSmart

[owenssailor]

I've upgraded 2 PC's to WIN 10. No problems. all drivers etc works. Both systems are stable. Just bought a new laptop for our Yacht Club with Win10. It is stable right out of the box. Win10 seems to me to be a stable OS with a decent user interface. I have not had any issues with needing to do double instals or any of the other horror shows referenced here.

[larry_barnhart]

I switched one of our 4 laptops to windows 10. Hard for me to see any difference.

chevman

[revump]

I upgraded all three of my computers to 10 ... very happy with the results. I like to stay on top of things

[tomkaren13]

I could not stand 8 or 8.1 so I went up to Win 10.

Do not think I am going to upgrade my Win 7. happy with it and it will have support for a bit longer,

[CA_Traveler]

Doing a clean install of W10 involves using my W7 product key. What happens if I want to return to W7 with a clean W7 install?

I'd guess there will be activation problems because the W7 product key has been used for W10.

Likewise what happens if I want to return to W7 using a disk image?

I haven't seen answers to these questions. And with the MS push for W10 I'm at least suspicious of returning back to the prior version. All of this is tied to the free upgrade where the prior W7/W8 product key becomes the W10 product key.