Hello Everyone,We are brand new to RVing and need some advice. We are planning to get a small travel trailer to haul to dog shows. While I understand that diesels are best for towing, we really can't afford the added cost of a diesel at this time. I was thinking about getting a regular truck (yes, a gasser, LOL) but then I realized, I won't have any place to haul the dogs if I do that. I need room for two or three large sized kennels inside the tow vehicle. Is there anything that would fit the bill? I was looking at the Ford Expedition but have read a lot of the concerns about using those as a tow vehicle.For what it's worth, I am looking into a smallish trailer, which should run about 5200 GVW. In fact, this is the trailer I have my eye on: Used 2010 Keystone RV Bullet 180FBS. Any input would be much appreciated.Thank you,Carrie

My Ford 150 with eco boost works well with my 24ft TT.

Full size vans work. They are less expensive used than pickups, particularly passenger vans coming off short leases or out of the rental fleet. Early 2014 I found a 2013 E-350 12 passenger with 19,000 miles for $21,000. E-350 extended (15 passenger) were selling about $1000 higher. Chevy Expess 3500 12 and 15 passenger running about $800 more tha equivalent Ford.Regular length "1-ton" passenger vans usually have capacity to carry 3000 pounds passenger and/or cargo, depending on the GVWR (assorted ratings optional for tax purposes), extended vans about 300 pounds less. Express 3500 passenger van ex-rental will usually have the 6.0 V-8 with a towing capacity of 10,000 pounds when empty, about 7000 fully loaded. E-350 passenger ex-rental will have the 5.4 V-8 with 13,000 GCWR for 6500-6700 towing capacity empty, about 3500 fully loaded. These vans hardly ever get fully loaded, that would be 12 250 pound passengers in the regular van, 15 200 pound passengers in the extended.Cargo vans will be cheaper new, and have about 800 pound more carrying capacity or tow capacity foe same ratings, because that's about what the seats, trim, rear air conditioning and other passenger comforts add to the empty weight of the van. Cargo vans also often get bought with smaller engines, which can reduce towing capacity. They are harder to find low mileage used because commercial leases are more like 3-5 years and customers who buy the vans run them until fully depreciated or they wear out, which can be 200,000 to 300,000 miles or more. (That also happens to passenger vans bought for hotel shuttle or taxi service, running sometimes to 500,000 miles).I suggest passenger van because carrying dogs, you want the big airconditioner cooling the rear of the van, and the insulation, heat and sound, of the interior trim. You can pull out as many seats as you want for the right mix of cargo and passenger capacity. I pulled the 4th row seat from my regular length 12-passenger, so seating for eight and about 120 cu ft cargo space. I can pull another row to have seating for five and about 180 cu ft.But why not a truck. One of my RVing buddies raised bird dogs for competition and show, always carried his kennels in the back of a pickup, but these dogs are also kenneled outdoors year round. Maybe if your dogs live indoors, you might want to carry them climate-controlled.

Hi Tom, Thanks for the very informative post. I thought about hauling the dogs in the back of the truck. The husky could probably take it but the whippet would practically freeze to death. They are both used to a controlled indoor climate, so I guess that idea is out. On that note, I really like the idea of a large passenger van. It makes a lot of sense. I'm going to start my search and will surely be back with plenty of questions before I take my final leap. I appreciate your fast response.Carrie

Thank you, Alabama Jim. That's good to know. :)Carrie

I show dogs too and started out with a small TT also, to eliminate the costs of motels and the schlepping, packing up, back and forth each night.If you have not bought anything yet all I can say was that using the TT was a real pain. First the dogs have to ride in your tow vehicle. When you get on site you have to unhook and set up. There are no pull thru parking sites at dog shows! :WTHEN you have to schelp the dogs, crates, equipment back to the TT. THEN reverse the whole process when it's time to leave.Also While you are on the road traveling, stopping to eat etc won't be a happening with the TT cause you can't leave the dogs locked up inside your tow vehicle. With the MH you can. Don't know how often you show but all it took was 3 back to back weekends to make me realize using a TT sucked! :BI sold the TT and picked up a real nice used MH. WHAT A DIFF! For you and the dogs. Just saying been there did that and IMHO a small inexpensive used MH is the only way to go.BTW: If you show confirmation and/or obedience? Pulling onto the show site with your dogs in the 'back' of a pick-up truck is not going to be in your best interest. :W

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zedas_lapedas
Explorer
Oct 24, 2015
rockhillmanor wrote:

You would eventually, most likely, end up getting a toad to tow behind the MH. It's inevitable once you take the plunge to a MH. And like I said before, once you cross over to the dark side of having and parking in the RV lot, you will find you can get a ride with anyone that has a toad to go for whatever you need or they will bring it back for you. That's how we roll.:C

That's cool, I love that. At least a few of our kennel club members are always at every show we go to and they are totally like that, so I hear ya.

rockhillmanor wrote:
For me one of the BIG BIG pluses of towing a toad is if you break down is insurance, there is no panic mode of OMG what do I do with the dogs?

That's a good point. I hadn't thought of that.

rockhillmanor wrote:
I have no problem with used MH's. Going in debt for a zoomie new MH to impress shouldn't be in the same sentence when you show which is a very expensive hobby in itself.:W

I totally agree. I've looked at quite a few nice, used MH's. In fact, some of the mid-90's ones seem pretty darned nice to me. Although I'm not sure we could get financed for anything older than 2005, which is fine, too. I figure the RV's that get traded in were probably kept in good condition. I'll have to look into it more and see what we qualify for. Right now, I'm having fun watching all the video tours of RV's for sale online. It seems to me Oregon has the best prices and I don't mind the drive. In fact, it would be fun to test drive it on the way home for our first little road trip. Not sure how soon this will be happening, as the holidays are sneaking up on us and my schoolwork is piling up to the ceiling, but I'd like to do this sooner than later with El Nino and Christmal coming soon, LOL. I'll keep you posted.

Thanks for all of the great info! :)

Carrie
rockhillmanor
Explorer
Oct 20, 2015
zedas_lapedas wrote:
Hi Again, Everybody,

I think my main concerns, other than budget, are: do I sacrifice the convenience of not having to maneuver a TT into a non-pull-through spot and lug everything back and forth versus having a vehicle to get around once we get there.

You would eventually, most likely, end up getting a toad to tow behind the MH. It's inevitable once you take the plunge to a MH. And like I said before, once you cross over to the dark side of having and parking in the RV lot, you will find you can get a ride with anyone that has a toad to go for whatever you need or they will bring it back for you. That's how we roll.:C

For me one of the BIG BIG pluses of towing a toad is if you break down is insurance, there is no panic mode of OMG what do I do with the dogs?
You move the dogs into the car, throw the keys to the tow truck driver and say call me when it's fixed. You are not stranded on the side of the road with your dogs.

If the financing worked out, I think our absolute max for a MH would be about $40,000.

You can find many REAL nice used MH's for that price range, actually even lower.

My first dog show MH cost $25,000. Bought it from a family that showed horses with their daughter!!. Precious cargo daughter and show horses, so that MH was maintained to the hilt.

And even though the reason I bought such an inexpensive one was to see if I liked using a MH for the shows so as not to go in debt out of the gate....

I ended up keeping that MH for six years and then sold it to another show person. I still occasionally meet up with them still running the circuit with my ole MH. :C

I have no problem with used MH's. Going in debt for a zoomie new MH to impress shouldn't be in the same sentence when you show which is a very expensive hobby in itself.:W
zedas_lapedas
Explorer
Oct 20, 2015
Hi Again, Everybody,

I think my main concerns, other than budget, are: do I sacrifice the convenience of not having to maneuver a TT into a non-pull-through spot and lug everything back and forth versus having a vehicle to get around once we get there. I'm sure, in time, we could make either scenario work for us. There are definitely pros and cons to each.

As for budget, it is really tight. I did find a decent, well-maintained used 12 seat passenger van for just under $7,000 and I'm sure we could get financed for a TT, probably easier than we could get financed for a MH, from the looks of the RV financing companies. I know we could get a nice, used TT for around $12,000. I know the TT is not ideal for our situation but I am willing to make that work for us for the time being, if need be.

If the financing worked out, I think our absolute max for a MH would be about $40,000. Our credit is not fabulous, but not horrible either. Depends on what they think of our debt ratio. Right now I am in nursing school and not making a whole lot as a CNA. That will change in a few years, but we'd like to get going with the RV sooner rather than later. Once I'm an RN, we can definitely upgrade and will have more options available to us. For now, we have to think on a smaller, less grand scale. ;)

Also, thanks for the idea to check around the showgrounds for well-maintained RVs for sale. No doubt about not wanting to waste those show fees, LOL. I know that pain! :S;)

Thanks again for all the valuable input I've received here! You all are great! :)

Carrie
Grit_dog
Navigator
Oct 19, 2015
Grit dog wrote:
Give a budget or the responses could be endless.
Pulling a 5k trailer with a budget tow rig leads you to a nice used half ton pickup.
I've had 3 big dogs in the back seat of a pickup for a cross country trip, out of necessity and it wasn't horrible but couldn't imagine doing it on purpose, regularly.
Pickup with a topper and crates (or not, nice thing about a topper you can open it up, toss the dogs in and go) is what I'd do. Except idk how to handle that in the summer.
In the summer we'd haul the dogs in open bed in crates and just hose them down at every stop.
For this a van with rear AC would be better. Rest of the time I'd want the mutts in the back of a pickup. But a van is going to stink like dog real quick! How do you haul them now?
Regardless of vehicle, if you can afford it, look at the newer last 5 yrs or so models with 6 speed transmissions. Mo better if you can afford it!
Grit_dog
Navigator
Oct 19, 2015
Give a budget or the responses could be endless.
Pulling a 5k trailer with a budget tow rig leads you to a nice used half ton pickup.
I've had 3 big dogs in the back seat of a pickup for a cross country trip, out of necessity and it wasn't horrible but couldn't imagine doing it on purpose, regularly.
Pickup with a topper and crates (or not, nice thing about a topper you can open it up, toss the dogs in and go) is what I'd do. Except idk how to handle that in the summer.
In the summer we'd haul the dogs in open bed in crates and just hose them down at every stop.
For this a van with rear AC would be better. Rest of the time I'd want the mutts in the back of a pickup.
Regardless of vehicle, if you can afford it, look at the newer last 5 yrs or so models with 6 speed transmissions. Mo better if you can afford it!
Grit_dog
Navigator
Oct 19, 2015
rockhillmanor wrote:
KD4UPL wrote:
2500 or 2550 van, 1500 or 2500 Suburban,or possibly a Tahoe
if it's a newer one with the 6 speed automatic.

The newer trans won't change the fact of it's short wheelbase. :W

Been there done that too. Tahoe's wheel base is too short. Sucked at towing even my short lite weight TT. I sold the TT after 2 trips with the Tahoe and retired the Tahoe back to only being used to go to the store for groceries.

Idk about sucks to toe a small trailer. You're assuming too much advantage from a little longer wheelbase.
APT
Explorer
Oct 19, 2015
5000 pounds GVWR can easily be towed by any full sized half ton pickup or SUV with the appropriate towing equipment, i.r. HD towing package/trans cooler, and V8 or turbocharged V6. A 2015+ 2.7L Ecoboost would be a perfect match. That's even in a comfortable zone for the more capable mid-sized SUVs, Durango Hemi, Grand Cherokee Hemi or Ecodiesel, and some imports too. Some Suburbans with only 130" wheelbase can tow 35'+ long TTs comfortably, and the Tahoe should be fine for 30' TT as long as all its weight ratings are not exceeded. This assumes people use a WDH with integrated sway control that is also properly adjusted.

You did not provide a budget for "what you can afford". New, a full sized passenger van is the cheapest for it's capabilities. Next more expensive for the same equipment is a pickup truck and mid sized SUV, and most expensive is the full sized/3 row SUV. Used market is similar, except the van values drop like rocks so the spread is wider.
rockhillmanor
Explorer
Oct 19, 2015
zedas_lapedas wrote:
Thank you, Rockhill Manor, Ugh, and Brian. Yeah, I had thought about a MH, of all different varieties, in fact. I started thinking about trailers because the cost of a MH seemed prohibitive -- at first.

You can easily find and pick up a real nice used MH for WAAAY less than what a tow vehicle and TT will cost. Not to mention you are then stuck with a pricey, payment loaded, gas guzzling 'truck' as a family car around town at home.

The issue of not having a vehicle to move about after you show?
First of all when you are parked in the RV lot at the show you will make so many more friends and most of us that have a toad always ask around us who needs what, from where, or do you want to go with. :C

And then....after you get your feet wet with the MH you WILL end up getting a toad or setting up your family car if possible to pull behind the MH.

Also next show take a walk around the RV parking lot. There's always a few exhibitors that have their MH for sale. They are the best deals I've seen, Show people 'always' keep their RV's mechanically in shape. For what we pay for entries/travel we can't afford a breakdown on the road and miss a show!!!:B
zedas_lapedas
Explorer
Oct 18, 2015
LOL, DRCook! We have had that issue in spades with our Siberian bratsky, I mean Husky. Her stomach is so sensitive and it is rather unpleasant when we have to travel with her when she has tummy issues, yuck! So yeah, I can relate. Also, I agree that crating the dogs is imperative for us, for the reasons you mentioned. Sibes and Whippets are not the best on recall and both are total escape artists. We are also considering getting a Saluki to show soon, as well. All these breeds run like the wind.

Your post gives me a whole new angle to think about. I had also considered the cap on the truck. I never knew about the donut contraption. That's pretty cool. I am actually having fun thinking of all of the possibilities and options we have available to us.

How do you feel about all of the juggling with a travel trailer at a dog show? Is it worth the convenience of having the motor separate from the TV? Just wondering what your experience is with the whole situation?

Thanks so much for the input! :)

Carrie
zedas_lapedas
Explorer
Oct 18, 2015
Thank you, KDUPL and Fizz. I appreciate your input. I'll let you all know what I end up settling on. :)

Carrie

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