cancel
Showing results forย 
Search instead forย 
Did you mean:ย 

Do we need to winterize for a few days in Yellowstone?

SarahElizabeth
Explorer
Explorer
Hi there! We're planning on heading to Yellowstone in a few days - but we just saw that the lows are going to be in the 30s. Are we going to have to winterize in order to go? Or will it not be too much of a problem because the temps will be in the 60s during the day?

Thanks so much!
41 REPLIES 41

Vulcan_Rider
Explorer
Explorer
harold1946 wrote:
With water in the pump it can freeze and break, along with the lines from the tank and any water that is in the lines at a low point.


Point A is a good one.

The pump might be a problem as would the water heater tank if it is left totally full.

And this is not a "theory". It is a fact of physics.
Like I said, ask a plumber.....one with some actual experience.

My folks wintered in Florida for near to 30 years.
They turned off the water at an underground valve/drain.
They drained the water heater, toilet tanks and opened all the faucets.
In 30 years, there were no problems.....with temps going down near -20 F at times.

I can not explain the anecdotal "evidence" of others.
Water simply freezing in a P-trap should NOT cause a problem......because there is room for the ice to expand in two directions as it freezes.

2gypsies1
Explorer III
Explorer III
SarahElizabeth: You will have no issues for short-time freezes. Relax! ๐Ÿ™‚

RE: Dripping Water: We spent many nights in freezing temps over our 16 years of full-timing. We, and everyone in our winter park in the desert of Arizona, were advised to leave the water drip overnight and it seemed to work with everyone - no lines were frozen. During the days we used the water freely so it kept the lines open even if we had freezing days although it usually warmed up to the 40's at least. Of course, you can only do this if you have sewer hookups so your gray tank doesn't fill up.

We never let our water hose outside. We filled our tank and ran off it. The water pump never froze. A frozen water hose takes forever to thaw.

If we'd be staying a short time in a park and leaving the next day, if we had cold weather - not necessarily freezing - we didn't leave our sewer hose out either. Trying to store a cold hose will surely put a crack in it. We kept it stores until time to dump.
Full-Timed for 16 Years
.... Back in S&B Again
Traveled 8 yr in a 40' 2004 Newmar Dutch Star Motorhome
& 8 yr in a 33' Travel Supreme 5th Wheel

harold1946
Explorer
Explorer
SarahElizabeth wrote:
We'll be dry camping. The only campground out there with full hookups is $50 a night!!


I would not be too concerned unless the temperature drops below 32 degrees for several hours.
Harold and Linda
2009 CT Coachworks siena 35V
W-22 Workhorse 8.1L
Explorer Sport toad

harold1946
Explorer
Explorer
With water in the pump it can freeze and break, along with the lines from the tank and any water that is in the lines at a low point. That is the reason all water lines are either filled with an antifreeze or blown out with compressed air. Including adding antifreeze to all P- traps so they do not freeze.
It is done in the same manner in homes and cabins that are not heated in freezing temperatures. Ask anyone that has such a dwelling and any plumber that does winterizing. Its the same procedure.

If your theory is true, why is it we have so many posts every spring about ruptured pipes and p-traps from those that did not properly winterize?"

Example: look at the recent post; " P-trap problem need help".
The previous owner stated that it froze and cracked.
Harold and Linda
2009 CT Coachworks siena 35V
W-22 Workhorse 8.1L
Explorer Sport toad

Vulcan_Rider
Explorer
Explorer
harold1946 wrote:
Water expands as it freezes, that is what causes piping to break, not water pressure. Even with the pump off there is still water in the lines and the pump.


Listen Harold, you know a lot of stuff but on this one you are just plain wrong. Just ask any plumber who is over 40 years old.

IF....the water in the pipe has room to expand in both directions without building up excessive pressure, that is one end slightly open (faucet) and the other end still connected to the input at ~40 PSI, the ENTIRE pipe can freeze solid with no adverse effects. This is why it is NOT a good idea to turn the source off in a "city water" situation and instead leave the faucets drip.
I know it's somewhat counter-intuitive but it IS true.

With an RV, the opposite is true. Since turning off the "pump" does not actually block anything, you do that and open the faucets. This assumes, of course, that you are NOT still connected to an outside source of water.

SarahElizabeth
Explorer
Explorer
We'll be dry camping. The only campground out there with full hookups is $50 a night!!

harold1946
Explorer
Explorer
Water expands as it freezes, that is what causes piping to break, not water pressure. Even with the pump off there is still water in the lines and the pump.
In a situation where there is a good chance of freezing, open the low point drain and drain the lines or use what ever means is available to maintain temperatures above 32 degrees.
Many RVs have ductwork that directs heat from the furnace to the wet bay and holding tanks, check with your manufacturer.
Turning the pump off and opening the faucets is no guarantee the remaining water will not freeze and burst the pipes or the pump.
Harold and Linda
2009 CT Coachworks siena 35V
W-22 Workhorse 8.1L
Explorer Sport toad

Vulcan_Rider
Explorer
Explorer
DSDP Don wrote:
and leave on faucet dripping all night. The water won't freeze when it's moving (dripping).


That's a commonly believed "old wives tale"; it's not true.

At least not for the reason given. The tiny "movement" of a dripping faucet makes NO difference.

It is the pressure that breaks pipes when they freeze.....the pressure of the water downstream between the freeze point and the faucet. Thus the dripping faucet prevents the pressure buildup....in THAT pipe.

In an RV, you turn the pump off and open all the faucets; no dripping required.

DSDP_Don
Explorer
Explorer
You don't say where you're staying and if you'll have hookups. The temps you're talking about, won't last long enough early morning hours) to cause issues. If you have hookups, you can just throw a 100 watt trouble light in your water bay and leave on faucet dripping all night. The water won't freeze when it's moving (dripping).

If you still feel uncomfortable, don't hook up your hose. Use the water in your tank and refill as needed.
Don & Mary
2019 Newmar Dutch Star 4018 - All Electric
2019 Ford Raptor Crew Cab

tenbear
Explorer
Explorer
pira114 wrote:
tenbear wrote:
Not everyone has the same size battery bank. If you have 4 golf cart batteries, that will last a lot longer than one 12v marine battery.


True. But that's why I pointed out I have one battery. But I didn't say what kind. It's just a 12v deep cycle marine.


You're right, I missed that.

Another thought, maybe some think their battery is fully charged when it is not. You can run a generator for quite a while and not have a fully charged battery if you have an old single stage converter.
Class C, 2004/5 Four Winds Dutchman Express 28A, Chevy chassis
2010 Subaru Impreza Sedan
Camped in 45 states, 7 Provinces and 1 Territory

harold1946
Explorer
Explorer
pira114 wrote:
tenbear wrote:
Not everyone has the same size battery bank. If you have 4 golf cart batteries, that will last a lot longer than one 12v marine battery.


True. But that's why I pointed out I have one battery. But I didn't say what kind. It's just a 12v deep cycle marine.

It that a true marine deep cycle battery? If it is a hybrid deep cycle/starting battery it has much less useful amp hours than a true deep cycle.
Harold and Linda
2009 CT Coachworks siena 35V
W-22 Workhorse 8.1L
Explorer Sport toad

pira114
Explorer II
Explorer II
Vulcan Rider wrote:
pira114 wrote:

Why are some people's batteries dying after one night, or especially halfway through the night?


Everything is relative.

Size of the heated space is important, as is the efficiency of the insulation.

Newer units "should" be insulated better but with everybody cutting costs everywhere possible these days maybe not; the OEM batteries might not be good ones either.

Then there is paying attention to how fully they are charged before going into boondocks mode.

Fully charged, my little furnace in the 28" C will keep a fairly comfortable 65 all night with a 35 degree low......but the batteries are low enough the following morning that they barely turn the generator over. Once or twice I've had to start the engine for a few minutes first.

P.S. I just found out in the past couple of days that the cab of my C has basically no insulation at all. Even with an outside shade on the windows, it stays really hot at that end. I am now using the "privacy" curtains for a thermal barrier to the cab. I assume that doing that when it's cold would save a bit on heating too.


Also true. Mine is a 26 ft box, no slides. Maybe older units are a bit more insulated? But the furnace fan runs practically all night. Runs about 15 min, off about 20, repeat.

Not saying anyone is right or wrong, it's just so drastically different that I thought it odd. And wondered if someone had an explanation

pira114
Explorer II
Explorer II
tenbear wrote:
Not everyone has the same size battery bank. If you have 4 golf cart batteries, that will last a lot longer than one 12v marine battery.


True. But that's why I pointed out I have one battery. But I didn't say what kind. It's just a 12v deep cycle marine.

tenbear
Explorer
Explorer
Not everyone has the same size battery bank. If you have 4 golf cart batteries, that will last a lot longer than one 12v marine battery.
Class C, 2004/5 Four Winds Dutchman Express 28A, Chevy chassis
2010 Subaru Impreza Sedan
Camped in 45 states, 7 Provinces and 1 Territory

Vulcan_Rider
Explorer
Explorer
pira114 wrote:

Why are some people's batteries dying after one night, or especially halfway through the night?


Everything is relative.

Size of the heated space is important, as is the efficiency of the insulation.

Newer units "should" be insulated better but with everybody cutting costs everywhere possible these days maybe not; the OEM batteries might not be good ones either.

Then there is paying attention to how fully they are charged before going into boondocks mode.

Fully charged, my little furnace in the 28" C will keep a fairly comfortable 65 all night with a 35 degree low......but the batteries are low enough the following morning that they barely turn the generator over. Once or twice I've had to start the engine for a few minutes first.

P.S. I just found out in the past couple of days that the cab of my C has basically no insulation at all. Even with an outside shade on the windows, it stays really hot at that end. I am now using the "privacy" curtains for a thermal barrier to the cab. I assume that doing that when it's cold would save a bit on heating too.